Eagledad

There is no debate, my response to your demeaning choice of word does says something about my religious beliefs and something I can’t change. Homophobic is a derogatory trigger word that says no tolerance of homosexual behavior. Many religions believe homosexuality to be immoral. Members of those religions have no choice no matter how they feel about it. I can see that offends you, but I’m sure even your religion teaches a behavior of tolerance. That you can’t think of a better choices of words exposes your anger and bias. Sore winner? Ive learned over years that more often than not choosing silence makes a more powerful statement and reflects maturity. Barry

Well, that a pretty anti religious statement. Ironically it also suggests an exclusive program as well. So many unbias (friendly) words could have been chosen to make the same point. Barry

The program is loosing it's way. Scouting is about boys finding themselves through their bad decisions, not get kicked out for making one. In fact, our motto is: the troop is a safe place to make bad decisions. The more, the better. There really isn't a protocol, you need to talk to the COR and CC. Approach them calmly and with questions. Let them work this out first. Barry

I think he is right. I believe it will be the best program for the families that want the kind of scouting that is coming. No program can be all things to all people. National is changing the filter of the kind of membership they want for their future. A pretty good comparison is the Canadian Scouts. Their program is no longer the world renown premier youth scouting program that it was 30 years ago, but it is attractive to a lot of members. Barry

Hey! Walk the talk! Wait a minute, that doesn’t make sense either.😳 barry

Yes. The posters honestly believe what they are saying. We had a long discussion about this last week. Just because you agree doesn't mean they don't believe it themselves. Are you saying the posters themselves aren't intellectual or that their posts aren't presented intellectually? Never mind, there is no good answer. You seem to be trying to convince me that some condensation at other people is justifiable. Under which point of the Scout Law would you teach that to a scout? Barry

Wow! That is quite good. I can see clever satirical humor is the method to get malicious posts past the moderators on this forum. I admit being enthralled by the shrewd approach for throwing the clever spiteful wit in the faces of target audience, who themselves laugh, if not applaud. Calling this form of dialogue "unscout-like" just seems adolescent. This is adult condensation at it's best. Still, as good and entertaining as it is, the source of motivation is still uncontrolled emotional without balance of humility. It's directing anger to belittle and denigrate opposing opinions. Is that how we want our youth to discuss differences? The wit is clever, but is it mature. On the face, such humor would be a welcomed tool to balance the emotion generated by opposing ideas of which we disagree. But does it sway minds. Does it show respect? Would it really be a under the category of intellectual dialogue? Barry

That's pretty good and I must agree. I was talking to my daughter about some things that bothered her and I realized that she was confusing bullying with being offended. I think bullying is being so over used today that it's loosing the real value of meaning. Real Life is hard and to survive we must learn how to deal with those things that cause us stress. I have said often that a troop environment is real life scaled down to a boys size. The typical troop program puts the scouts in a lot small stressful situations to practice and learn how to handle big stressful situations in their adult life. I use to say to visiting Webelos parents that we are preparing their sons to handle that day when the wife is sick in bed, the kids are crying for breakfast and the boss is calling to find out why he is late for work. "Safe spaces" seems to be a term for young adults who didn't learn how to deal with stress while they were young. Barry

Well said. Barry

What about scouting for you makes the program bigger than the changes being implemented on it.? Barry

Openly? Closet? The parents were fine with who they are and who knew. In all cases they understood that the unit (life) has restrictions, so it wasn't a big deal. The reason I found NJs post interesting is because all the parents I spoke with wanted their kids to make "their" choices based on "their" experiences. You suggest a tone of barriers and close mindedness. The tone around our parents was pragmatic and open. Barry

Oh! A Yankees fan too. Yes, a lot of tripwires there. Barry

That is an interesting response. Was he ever planning to be active as an adult leader? Could he consider allowing his daughter to make that choice? Is he just making a political statement? You probably don't know the answer and I understand it doesn't matter because it isn't any of your business. I only wonder about it because we had several scouts with atheist and gay parents. And even thought they couldn't join he BSA officially, they still actively supported the program. Barry

Here is something interesting. Pope's reported comment to a gay man may indicate a new level of acceptance of homosexuality http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pope-chile-gay-20180520-story.html Barry

My apologies David. Barry

I’ve said several times on this forum that humility is the greatest leadership trait because it is the ultimate action of serving. Jesus washed the feet of his disciples (fulture leaders of the Christian movement) explaining the first should be last and last should be the first. Humility doesn’t stop with age and actions of humility shows the Scouts that our character is always evolving. 18 is the age limit for being labeled a youth in the BSA, but it’s not the limit for the game with a purpose. I became a better father, husband and community citizen because of my scouting experiences at age 45. Barry

One of the older scout’s teaches woods tools safety on the first new scout camp out each year so the new Scouts can use their knife. We require all new adults attend the class as well, mostly so they see boy run in action. I remember one new adult was a little perplexed about how the older scout instructor taught knife sharpening. The technique was different from how he learned when he was a scout. He very politely asked the instructor about it and the instructor responded by giving the adult a page number reference in the scout handbook. You never know how some adults react to these classes, but this adult told me later that he knew his son was in the right troop simply by the way the instructor responded to his question. He said, “I’m an Eagle Scout and I thought I knew everything about scouting and camping. The instructor, on several levels, politely showed me that I still have a lot to learn.” I didn’t watch the Scouts teach the course because I wanted the new adults to see that I trusted them even in teaching safety. But I sure was proud of him. Barry

Well first, I believe boys at this age need a program for boys. We've had many discussions on that subject, but you can certainly start another. I just don't feel the boys program should be sacrificed simply to raise overall numbers. Second, the infusion of adults without the youth scouting experience will naturally dilute the patrol method part of the program to the point that it won't be recognizable in 10 years (10 years is roughly two generations of scouts). That is because after working with dozens of units over the years, I don't believe patrol method can be implemented correctly without some patrol method experience. Barry

Good post. I think a coexist bumper sticker on the bus of the BSA 30 years ago would have been great marketing. Sadly, political activism has driven passionate divisions through the American population to the point of discarding anything that represents the other side. Hey, the Coexist bumper sticker was created to be politically divisive. I believe the BSA membership would have been better off if National hadn't done anything the last 10 years because there are other reasons besides morality to resist gays, transexuals and girls. However, we are witnessing that without any internal resistance, traditional conservative outdoor youth organizations in North American can be changed by just a few assertive adults. I would have never thought we would go through the same experience of the Canadian Scouts. But that was silly of me, the Canadian Scouts had the largest membership in the world in 1990. If the giant of scouting could be brought to it's knees, why not the BSA. Barry

I'm curious to learn what the Catholic teaching is on homosexuality? Barry

The United Methodist is more complicated, they do no parrot National. At the most they parrot the General Methodist Convention. National is very liberal and publically supports liberal causes, which is why it is viewed a left moderate Church. But the bylaws are created by the more conservative delegates at the Methodist General Convention. The United Methodist Mens are independent and generally viewed as conservative. I'm told liability is the main reason they submitted to allowing gays in their units. Barry

The scouts are responsible for finding their activities in our troop. If the adults want to see the lay of the land, we do it without the scouts. Summer camp is really good place for scouts to learn practice navigating strange camps to find their courses and activities. It's a very growing experience for new scouts. The SPL goes to most of the logistics meetings also. We may send an adult with him the camp requires it. Our SPLs work so hard at summer camp that we pay his camp fees. It's benefit, but they earn it. Barry

Actually the CO's do it all the time. Many COs use the scouting program as their youth program. In general families looking for a troop already know this by the CO's name or reputation. But having specific expectation of their scout unit members and imposing their behavior expectations is not unusual. Barry

You're confusing your statements. We have a very strong moral code. The Oath and Law define our code. But the code is for both the adults and scouts. The program is based on scouts learning from their decisions and from watching their role models. The role model adults are the judges of the scout 's decisions. I'm not sure how you think adults don't impose their moral code. In fact, the strong impact of role modeling is why I don't agree with allowing gay scout leaders. They don't have to perform actual sex in front of scouts to express agreement for the behavior. And please, I'm not trying to turn this into a gay leader debate, it's just an example of how adults impose morality. Or immorality I guess. Barry

We (YOU, ME and all ADULT LEADERS) all impose our personal morality on the scouts because we are their judge of right and wrong. We just don't call it morality, we call it the Oath and Law. But it is morality. And if you don't think that is intended, I suggest you read the BSA Mission Statement. Also, sponsors have the freedom to expect certain behaviors to be enforced on their scouts. Families are given the freedom to choose any unit they want. Barry