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Welcome to the forum, @Eloisefig. That's certainly no fun. It sounds like you've already made up your mind and I can't blame you. Good luck. But I'm not sure how much better luck you're going to have elsewhere. It seems to me that every troop I know of is struggling. Anyway, I few observations: In your meeting with the SPL and ASPL you dumped a whole lot of new ideas on them that they likely don't understand if they've never seen it before. Babies don't take smaller steps then older children, they stumble around and crash a lot. Sometimes they need to be caught before they crack the

All good responses so far. I apologize for not including this phrase in my prior reply as I feel it is very important; others have hinted at it in their responses. I believe that Scouting done well is evidence of the truth of this statement. Not eveything that counts is measureable, and not everything that is measureable counts. (paraphrase of a quote often attributed to Einstein)

So far in 2024, there has been no news regarding our federal Charter-required Report to the Nation though I heard of some Reports to State which BSA National encourages. No word yet of any live feed (e.g. youtube) of any parts of NAM. Let's go digital! I prefer, unfiltered direct conversation with Mr. Krone and Mr. Pounder, preferably with an opportunity to send in our questions and feedback. Please no more filtered, condescending after event reports - 5 Things You Need to Know About ... My $0.01,

Some other KPI (Key Performance Indicators) you may want to consider Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter and actively found Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter that you did not look for but who seemed to have turned up anyway Scouts left at gas / food stops last quarter while driving to or from outings Number of rain jackets forgotten at last outing with rain (can also be expressed as a percentage) Number of class A shirts misplace that seem to have magically been found Number of items "stolen" on an outing last quarter that were "found"

Adults are the worst enemy to patrol method. We apply our sensibilities and biases to a process that the youth see no issue with. Last campout we had 5 patrols. 1 patrol was two scouts. 1 patrol was four scouts. They had a great time, they cooked and enjoyed their meals and were happy to have only their own dishes to contend with. I subscribe completely the B-P's POV: "The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the only method." There is another tenant of B-P I fully subscribe to: "My ideal camp is where everyone is cheery and busy, whe

That would be three separate menus/shopping/cooking/cleanup in our unit, so three patrols. 3 olders is enough for a "patrol."

IMHO every issue should be reviewed to confirm that. I do not think we should take comfort by saying, to paraphrase, "We have the best YP...". I would rather hear We are constantly reviewing our YP procedures policies and procedures by examining incident reports with YP experts. Here is a link to our YP Committee reports on actions for those incidents, including legal actions, and legislation lobbying. My $0.02,

I see this idea often, not just from @HICO_Eagle “The BSA would have done something if only the abused kid would testify.” First, that’s pretty classic blame the victim. Second, in my case in the 90’s, an ASM did raise concerns and was told it was fine and the YP rules were being followed. After several years of abuse I did testify, on my own with the support of my family and zippo from BSA. So it’s always frustrating to read that because in the instance I know, the exact opposite happened. I doubt I’m one in a 100 thousand. On balance wouldn’t it have been much much bette

Now we are talking about BSA in general. You are way off on the homosexual vs bisexual comment. The great majority of pedophiles are heterosexual. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/ On whether the Boy Scouts did their best... I don't think I can add anything that will change your mind but note that your description of how an SE or TCC would have analyzed the situation has no mention of doing the right thing and is all about liability and reputation.

He was blocked re-registering in the 1970s and 1980s. The 1968 letter had the SE say they could not ignore the accusations and said it was Brock's actions that led to the result. For 1968, this seems like it was handled well ... for 1968 ... before computers ... before modern laws. This sounds like BSA's files worked well. The one thing that surprised me is no police report. So so so many of the files do have police reports. I bet there was not a 1968 chargeable crime. The 1960s were a long time ago and so much has change. A lot has changed.

What can we say, other than good for her. https://richmond.com/opinion/column/hanover-hypocrisy-book-censorship-girl-scout/article_ca2c06be-fde7-11ee-8aea-939bb71a3f14.html

Those are all great ideas. I'd add: Form an adult patrol. Act like a patrol. Make a yell. A flag. Camp apart. Have your own kitchen, just like theirs. Do your menu, just like they do. Have your own grubmaster. Plan your own patrol activities when it's patrol time. Set the example.

"We are so afraid of the kinds of dangers that are actually so rare that we are not allowing our children to prepare themselves for the bumps in the road of life. Then, later on they fall apart," Boston College Professor Peter Gray told WBZ-TV. "They are far better off if they have the kinds of experiences in which they learn how to judge danger themselves, how to solve their own problems, develop a certain degree of courage, learn how to deal with the small amounts of fear and anger that naturally arise in play....We've taken away a lot of recess, we've shortened the lunch hour so kids a

When my financial advisor found out I was a scout leader and taking other people's kids in my car and out camping, he recommended I carry umbrella liability insurance. I have done so for 30 years now. It is very reasonable in cost. You can be perfectly innocent and not at fault, but if you get sued or accused, it can cost you everything to defend yourself. Such is today's litigious society that feels if my kid gets hurt, SOMEONE has to pay, no matter the reason.

Salomon Rushdie spoke on 60 minutes regarding censorship. "There seems to be a kind of growing orthodoxy, particularly amongst young people, that censorship … is a good thing," Rushdie told correspondent Anderson Cooper. "The thing that's different now is that it's also coming from progressive voices," he said. "There are progressive voices saying that certain kinds of speech should be not permitted because it offends against this or that vulnerable group." Rushdie said that when speech is suppressed, the people who are first impacted are often minority groups. "To suppor

4/16/2024: Sixteen-year-old Emily Green, a first-generation Costa Rican American is a Eagle Scout. Her family came to this country with practically nothing, living in shelters, finally getting help from the Scouts. During the Report to the State, she addressed lawmakers at the Massachusetts State House. "Scouting has been instrumental in shaping my character and learning essential life skills. I started as a little girl, joining my brother, who's also an Eagle Scout, in his Scout troops. Then I joined a progressive co-ed troop and advanced through the ranks from a cub scout to Eagle

We solved the "3x the work" cooking issue by camping next to the parking lot and ordering out-by patrols, of course. Separate patrol checks. Scouts can't cook, but at least "Thrifty" is a work-in-progress.

Her argument is that is 3x the work. An ASM tried to explain to her that this is the process. This is how things get done. Cooking for 11 isn’t easy, or how it should be done.

Zack Gridley was diagnosed with Cerebral Palsy when he was just one year old after suffering from a double brain bleed shortly after birth. After years of developmental therapy Zack Gridley decided to join cub scouts in 2016. He's earned over 40 badges with Boy Scout Troop 55. "I would highly recommend because you get to develop a bond with people in your troop," Zack said. "Everyone helped me through this journey, and I worked very hard," Zack added. Zack's parents said though he received some accommodations on his journey, he mostly took on scout challenges on his own. "He

Please remember, the folks who pushed for the membership changes internally by your logic should have removed themselves, or been removed by BSA long before the membership changes happened.

I'm suggesting it's OK for adults to express reservations about membership changes online or in a Zoom meeting, provided it's done in a tactful manner. There is no need to "crack down" on them unless their comments target specific youth members or are deliberately hurtful. If you feel a youth in your area has been treated unfairly, by all means intervene on their behalf. Scouting would not exist in some communities today were it not for some of these "old school" scout leaders. Change takes time and I'm not sure you can get there by extinguishing dissent.

My favorite events are ones where I can just show up with my son and be a dad. I would gladly pay more in fees if it resulted in better, more frequent program opportunities at the council and district levels (unclear if that's the case). I'm a pretty frugal guy with a regular job and $165 doesn't seem that ridiculous by today's standards. Anyone else ashamed to admit what they spend on youth sports or their pets? 🙂

It sucks. I don’t mind, but I have a job where these fees aren’t hard for me to pay AND I already buy into the program. The hard part is when someone is new, when a person can’t really afford the fees, or when a unit doesn’t have the funds to pay for the adults. So, this really hinders growth since the growth comes at the margins, not from existing members. The $25 fee that is now gone, was a good example. “Let’s make it more expensive for new people, that will be a great way to get new people to sign up.” Sure. Great plan.

Take out point 5, everything else applies when drivers are on their own. Before cell phones, we moved a whole troop of 120 six-hundred-miles and ended up at the destination with in 15-20 minutes. So it works well. Before cell phones, we used radios that had a range of 50 miles. Our trailer broke an axle in Colorado and all other cars knew within minutes. A plan was set to which car would help and which ones would continue to next stop at a safe place for a bunch of scouts. Much better than stopping a whole caravan of cars along side a busy two lane highway. Barry

One of the reasons I was surprised to have them eliminate the filing of the Tour Permit. That was another check to try and make sure rules were followed, as the permit had them and also included verifications of insurance and so on.

At that time that was probably as good as any other youth programs were or could do. Of course it is and will always be less than perfect.

The school board found a way to get kids to read books ... announce that they are banned. I would think BSA would be fine accepting controversial Eagle Scout projects. One of our youth did a project for an organization that provides housing for primarily LGBTQ youth who were abused at home. That said, there was a clear benefactor and and the project wasn't directed against any political group. So, I could see a way for a project like this could work in the BSA, but not in the manner it was conducted as a Gold project.

“Organizations like [the Scouts] are symbiotic in that the Scouts benefit from accomplishing their requirements, and the community benefits from the fruits of the Scouts fulfilling their goals,” said U.S. Army Lt. Col. Reuben Doornink. “Scouting has been a big part of my life through the years and being an Eagle Scout can help form near- immediate bonds. Scouting is similar to the military in that I know if my family needed something, I could put it in a chat group and have 10 people at my door,” said Doornink. “One thing that being a Scout taught me is, ‘Keep working on the task regardle

In another thread, someone criticized me for being okay with scouters and other adults speaking their mind to my youth. That got translated into allowing “hostile” acts — even though the topic was clearly discussing speech that did not involve any physical threat. Some repliesasserted that its somehow wise to shield a kid from someone who could teach a him/her how to forestall death, but has voiced problems with their membership. Youth have a word for situational ethics: duplicity.

Definitely, IMHO the BSA is conflict averse for better or worse.

Two sides to this. Freedom of expression vs child safety? Our local Eagle Board approves projects that serve the community for greater good, harmonious, good-PR,... The Board is not looking for controversy or conflict.

Girl Scout saves boy's life by using CPR training she learned months before harrowing event. I like Mom's comment at end. Scout salute.

@fred8033, one of the first Google hits I came across suggested that Girl Scout membership declined from 2.8 million in 2003 to ~1 million in 2021. This would be a point-to point decrease of ~65% over an 18-year span. According to a table I pulled from Wikipedia, BSA membership went from 3.2 million in 2003 to ~1 million in 2021. This would be a point-to point decrease of ~69% over the same period. While some of the BSA's issues have been self-inflicted, I do think the membership challenges are part of a larger societal trend - kids just have a lot more choices these days (and that's

Train them. Trust them. Let them lead. It is 3x less work for SM..... Since the adult "patrol" is cooking for 3 people, not for 11.

My suggestion is to love the past and the involvement. Then, move on. Find the next place to volunteer. Scouting is not the end-all-be-all of life.

Sadly they may never be able to get back. I know someone who was falsely accused, and was never reinstated after the investigation supported her story.

Awesome. I just wanted to get it out there. It feels better to be validated.

Minor argument that is negotiable. One scout on a campout could be a patrol. We can all agree a patrol is a patrol. Regrouping into adhoc patrols or doing doing things at the troop level subverts the patrol system. When forming long-term patrols at troop meetings, two patrols is not good. Ideally, seven scouts is a good patrol size. ... BUT if on the campout, only one scout from that patrol goes on the campout, then that scout should be given the option to cook by themselves.

We censor speech all the time in the BSA, we're supposed to. Certain kinds of speech are not allowed according to YPT policies. Speech that is intended to make youth feel unwelcome on the basis of gender, for example, is not tolerated. I personally have no particular issue with someone thinking that girls shouldn't be here. What I do have an issue with is what kicked off this thread to begin with, people taking it from thinking this stuff and progressing to saying it in settings with scouts and scouters encounter it. So circling back to yknot's comment, that people who hold the viewp

Ah, just not a simple label. Now we see clearly? Remember, it is against the law to remove some labels, or so it is said. 🙄

I prefer this version of Norman Rockwell's Freedom of Speech. Others may disagree, let them. Moderator awareness... IMMO*, some informative, robust yet scoutlike discussion here. Thank you. RS * In My Moderator Opinion

"Heck, I'd even support liberals if they ever wanted to join scouting." Guess I will need to scan through this, but wanted to just note, perhaps already done, that being Liberal or Conservative or something between has nothing to do with someone having an interest in Scouting. I probably know more people that would be "labeled" as that than would be labeled otherwise, all of whom support the basic ideals of Scouting and strive to grow the newer generations.

So you do agree that those who believe that the current membership policies are wrong do have the right to speak up. Then why are you upset when they do so? Can you show me the results of the membership (emphasis) survey that had the majority support current membership policies, because I have been looking for years. All I can find is the non-member results, which did not include any BSA identifiable markers. Also why would BSA exclude a major segment of their membership from the polls? If I can find the screen capture of the poll, if you were in the Western Region, and chartered to

Scouting is fundamentally about being a member of society. Civil discourse. Acting as part of a community. Discussion is core to scouting. That's not correct. This forum debated membership changes for as long as I've been a member. Both sides have been debated. At least a decade if not 15+ years. Ahhh. The value in one person's eyes justifies their crimes. The ends justify the means. So, it's okay for them to violate the Scout Law because they "believe" their beliefs justify breaking the agreement they signed when they agreed to be scout leaders? ... But, the

Disposing of those you disagree is wrong. Some call it censorship. I call it a form of sin. People are no more disposable for their beliefs than their sexual orientation. We all need to work together. I've always thought it should be obvious that there is a clear difference between forums like this where we discuss and exist for discussion. In-person working with youth and new leaders is different. That should be completely obvious. ... We as scouters should support all SCOUTS; period. I've seen that happen over and over again even when we disagree or question the situation. .

Isn't that what the topic is? It sounds like members have an issue with them in Scouting period, not necessarily in their unit or CO. Which goes back to my original point. What the CO decides is correct, however, your CO's decision doesn't speak for the entire organization, which is what is happening here.

I'm not sure that's a great example to pick, because when Tigers were added to the program, verbal or physical threats weren't made against those children by other scouts or adult leaders. I don't know why people think it's OK though when it's about girls. Protecting children shouldn't require discussion. It's not censure ship to expect that registered and trained youth leaders in a youth organization protect and support the youth in their care.

Boy Scout Troop 47's Mighty Duck Patrol all earn LIfe rank. Scout Salute! More at source: https://www.times-herald.com/arts_and_community/mighty-duck-patrol-simultaneously-reaches-rank-of-life-scout/image_1c3ab2d8-f2b8-11ee-893f-8f204c1509a5.html

So the boy units who have the exact same problem are left out again. There are lots of boy units who have the exact same problem, especially in the inner city, like Charlotte where that council is located. You would think that they would open it to all new troops. Might be a great way to get boys off the streets and into the woods.

I have to take back my outrage at that specific girls-only camporee. Just in case there was some additional context, I reached out to the organizer, and it turns out that the camporee is there to solve the problem of weak scoutcraft experience among both scouts and leaders. I had most of the facts, I just didn't put them together in a way to predict the problem because of my own scouting and family backpacking experience, including my current scouting involvement in a family pack with family dens where girls and boys learn the exact same scoutcraft skills, hike the same miles, set up the