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Compare Scouting vs Sports ?

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15 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

On a related note, I think that by the end of what is now almost SIX YEARS of Cub Scouting, the parents (particularly those who were not Scouts themselves) tend to think that their sons have "done Scouting" and have gotten all the benefit they can out of it (of course, we know they're wrong, but they don't.)  On the other hand, they view the benefits of sports as just beginning at that age.

That pretty much sums up a great issue...SIX YEARS OF CUB SCOUTS.  The  Cubs used to be sort of the waiting room for Scouts, as that was the really good stuff.  Now it can be a 6 year slog to Scouts, parents may determine to do something new.  Also after SIX YEARS OF CUB SCOUTS many parents (can you say family scouting) expect Troops to be the same, or in many cases worry that it will be more of the same

 

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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Maybe all our problems are solved.

The article brings up a interesting point, one of the major reasons parents want their kids to play sports is to help them get into or finance college. I am a firm believer that college has been completely oversold in the last 3 decades. Maybe this is starting to turn around, I can only hope.

Mike

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21 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Because the scouting experience doesn't have the value of the sports. Our troop had a reputation as welcoming athletes, but in truth most troops really don't mind. What made us more attractive was our program. Oh yes, we were willing to let scouts arrive to Camp Saturday morning after friday's nights football or band.  But, those scouts could of easily not bothered to camp that weekend at all. Program, program. program.

Barry

Well, I would disagree. The Scouting experience has more value than sports.  That said, my oldest was a freshman/JV football player, and lettered three years in Lacrosse, two in swim, and became an Eagle during the football years. (youngest played tuba in marching band for 4 years), Only band practice he missed was for his Eagle BOR. Scouts can afford flexibility more than the sports teams/band. Part of that is that, at least in most Troops, Scouting is year round, and doesn't require 90%+ attendance.

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20 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said:

I managed a Little League baseball team for one year. A year later, I wonder at times what if I ran that team like I did as scoutmaster of my troop? Baseball players would pick a captain to make the final decisions, then the captain would figure out a process to determine which player would play which position, batting lineups, who would man the 1st and 3rd base coach spots, when to practice, etc. All I would have to do is make sure they follow the rules and secure practice fields and transportation. 

Scouts certainly benefit from running their own program, especially if it is messy.

And the above, IMHO, is why Scouting builds men better than most sports.  Almost no sports are actually led by the players. They simply do what the coach says, and cooperate to accomplish the coach's plan.  

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1 hour ago, SubSM said:

I am a firm believer that college has been completely oversold in the last 3 decades.

I firmly agree, but it's now the starting point for a professional life.  Very hard to have a long term stable career without a college degree. 

Personally, I don't see it adding much actual value or capability anymore. 

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57 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

Well, I would disagree. The Scouting experience has more value than sports.  That said, my oldest was a freshman/JV football player, and lettered three years in Lacrosse, two in swim, and became an Eagle during the football years. (youngest played tuba in marching band for 4 years), Only band practice he missed was for his Eagle BOR. Scouts can afford flexibility more than the sports teams/band. Part of that is that, at least in most Troops, Scouting is year round, and doesn't require 90%+ attendance.

My post was an explanation for why youth choose sports over scouts. Not an opinion of what has more value. My point, not very clear, is that youth will go where they want to go and if sports is a better choice, than likely the scout program isn't keeping their interest.

Barry

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12 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I firmly agree, but it's now the starting point for a professional life.  Very hard to have a long term stable career without a college degree. 

Except for the thousands of in-demand trade skills positions that pay premium wages without needing to go into debt for six figures.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

Except for the thousands of in-demand trade skills positions that pay premium wages without needing to go into debt for six figures.

"professional life" ... I was differentiating with trades.  Trades can provide good income to raise a family.  But, trades still mostly require a two year degree (or more) that directly targets the skills to be used. 

IMHO except for technical degrees (sciences, math, engineering, etc), the general college degrees rarely directly help professional careers ... except to get hired.  I've seen many many well educated high school graduates that I consider as well suited for most professional jobs.  

Edited by fred8033

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8 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

Except for the thousands of in-demand trade skills positions that pay premium wages without needing to go into debt for six figures.

Maybe, but if you want to advance and move up the ladder, you eventually need a BS/BA, and sometimes a MS/MA. Best example is nursing. You can be a LPN with a years worth of training. But your scope of practice is limited compared to a RN with a 2 year associates degree. But to move up to supervisory positions, a BSN is required. 

3 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

"professional life" ... I was differentiating with trades.  Trades can provide good income to raise a family.  But, trades still mostly require a two year degree (or more) that directly targets the skills to be used.  IMHO, the college degrees rarely directly help professional careers ... except technical focused degrees.  I've seen many many well educated high school graduates that I consider as well suited for most professional jobs.  

The problem is the way HR departments put in criteria for application selection. If certain things are missing, like a 4 year degree, you may never get your application pass the computer system. Best example I could give is my brother. He was in the sales profession since HS, participating in a Distributive Education program. Top notch salesman, always qualifying some whatever company awards, and was even assigned to help train manager-trainees. Every time he applied for a manager-trainee program, he got rejected because of no bachelors. Eventually he left.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

"professional life" ... I was differentiating with trades.  Trades can provide good income to raise a family.  But, trades still mostly require a two year degree (or more) that directly targets the skills to be used. 

Fair enough regarding the "professional" (white collar?) vs. trades professions.  However, plenty of trades (most?) don't require a degree; the apprenticeship path is still the way to go.  For those that do, a 2 year certificate/degree from a vocational school is still a fraction of the cost of even the lowest in-state University.

22 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Maybe, but if you want to advance and move up the ladder, you eventually need a BS/BA, and sometimes a MS/MA. Best example is nursing. You can be a LPN with a years worth of training. But your scope of practice is limited compared to a RN with a 2 year associates degree. But to move up to supervisory positions, a BSN is required. 

I'd disagree on 2 points. The first is that nursing isn't a trade profession. Besides, I think it's all in our best interest that health care providers have a bit of formal schooling and education.

Secondly, most vocational trade professions have absolutely zero degree requirements. You can go from apprentice to master craftsmen with zero formal education. This doesn't even take into account the entrepreneurial opportunities that abound for those so inclined.  

Edited by Pale Horse
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Okay, I'll compare scouting vs. sports...

Sports teams take their names very seriously:  the Tigers, the Marauders, the Yankees...
Boy Scouts take their patrol names with good humor:  the Muffin Men, the Green Janitors...

Baseball fans sing during the seventh inning stretch.
Boy Scouts sing when they're happy and they know it.

When Houston Texans fans go to a game, they can pay over $20 for a stale hot dog and a sugary drink.
Thrifty Boy Scout grubmasters can feed a fellow scout 5 meals for $10 (no extra charge for the dirt and bugs).

Football fans love their tailgate parties!
Boy Scouts know there are better places than a parking lot to have a picnic.

I went to a hockey game and a fight broke out.
I went on a Boy Scout campout and a gaga ball game broke out.

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I think the difference between scouting and sports is fairly simple. At the most basic level, when scouts and sports are both done right, scouting is about learning to put others before self, gracefully, and sports is about learning to win, gracefully. Some parents see more value in one over the other. Some see value in both.

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In some ways, scouts is a very solitary pursuit and not at all team oriented. My scouts biggest complaint when they crossed over from cubs to scouts is that they lost that sense of shared adventure with their den. I know it's supposed to morph into a patrol model, but when you are in an area where parents are pushing their kids to tear their way up the Eagle Trail, it becomes very individual and fragmented.  We can tell ourselves that it's a winning vs. service mentality, but in reality, I think it's more about the shared experience. Win or lose, if kids feel like they are more part of a team in sports than part of a patrol or troop in scouts, they are going to gravitate to the sports team instead. On a sports team, kids see their teammates and coaches two or three times a week and more for school teams. It builds a lot of camaraderie. In scouts, because leaders are somewhat hands off and at least in our case so many of the leaders are only there to support their own kids on their advancement trail, I don't think the kids develop as much of a rapport. In sports, the parent coaches need your kid in order for their own kid to do well because it's a team effort. In scouts, the parent leaders don't need your kid in order for their own kid to advance and do well. 

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Sports teams usually have a much closer identification with their towns and schools than scout units have with their Chartered Organizations.  As a result, the towns and schools come out to support the teams.  This often makes kids feel like they are playing for the honor of their town or school. 

I think it was a big mistake for scouting to replace the name of the community (on the uniform) with the council patch.  

 

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