CNYScouter

Close order drill in still part of the Sea Scouts/ The youth members of the Ship took training in this and now use it when they have been asked to opening cerimonies. Here are some links to the Sea Scout Drill manual: ftp://seascout.org/pub/Program/Drill_manual.pdf http://www.sss601.org/drill.html

I think this gives a good insight in what to look for in a troop: It is taken from BSA Publication No. 18-251, 1995 Printing entitled Are You Delivering The Promise.: http://usscouts.org/cubscouts/goodtroop.asp There is a good discussion on this forum called Some Common Traits of Successful Troops from early this year http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=164321#id_164515 This is a spin off from Bob Whites postings Common traits of successful troops http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=14781#id_14781 Not all agree on his points but I think they are good starting point on what to look for and it will be almost impossible to find a troop that does all of these. I think that Troop 195 has a pretty good parents guide for WEBELOS to Scout Transition: http://www.westford.com/troop195/web2scout.pdf I hadnt seen this before but there seems to be more of an agreement this Bob White list and is just as important Common traits of failing troops http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=14783 Just as his list for successful troops isnt always the case I think that if you see something on these lists it should be a Red Flag to ask more questions about and you have to decide if it is something you can live with. If I had seen either of these lists before crossing over I would have never selected the troop I did. From my experience I would suggest that you and some of the other adults attend a committee meeting (or two) for the troops you plan to visit. I think this really shows more how the troop is run that just attending a Troop meeting. The first troop we were with didnt have committee meetings as the SM made all the decisions in the Troop. The second troop turned out to be a WEBELOS III Troop and all decisions were made by the committee. Neither of these units were boy-run and attending a committee meeting (or that they didnt have any) would have made this pretty clear. You can also see how well the adults work together and see if the troop has a common vision which is just as important as the youth getting along. Ill agree with the other posters that both you and your son need to be comfortable in the unit you select.

The WB course that our council just did was $165 which was $20 less than the one in 2005. The course in 2005 never ran as only 10 people signed up. The course was held this year but had less than 30 participants. I know that participants did receive a WB hat but I dont know what else was included.

Where is the Committee Chair? They are the person who should be setting the committee meeting time and dealing with training issues along with your COR/CO. What can you do? Cub Scout Fast Start, New Leaders Essentials and Youth Protection are all online and can be done in the CMs free time so you could send them the links. You can also get these on a CD to give to the CM. Your District Training Chair should be able to give you a copy. CM wont go to Leader Specific training contact your UC or District Training Chair and see if they will come to you. Where does your COR and CO stand on this? They are the only ones who have any real power to get someone trained. They can tell your CM to get training or step down. If you choose to go this route be prepared to replace the CM. But most likely this person will never get trained. If they are not willing to take training there is very little you are going to be able to do to change this.

When my son was in Cubs the pack we were with did one that I thought was very good. 1 page both sides, nothing fancy. Usually a cub or two would be in charge of handing out a copy as people entered the Pack meeting. On the front had a yearly calendar and contact info for pack leaders. It highlighted the months pack meeting and any Pack event in the next few months. The back side had info about next months Pack meeting, such as the theme and what each Den would be doing. The only downside was that if you missed the Pack meeting you couldnt get one. I agree that it to convert it to PDF and email it to the unit membership is a good idea. For an easy and free (yes, it is free to use) .pdf writer go to www.cutepdf.com and download the CutePDF Writer. It installs like a printer. To use it when you go to print just select it from the printer menu instead of your printer.

I had never seen this until this weekend as one of the Wood Badge staffers had them. They had both silver and red shoulder loops. I also saw that they had a unit number with the position patch of District Roundtable commissioner. The Commissioners arrow actually hung off below the shirt sleeve and partially covered the trained patch. All of their knots were for Cub Leader''s. On the right sleeve they had a Den Number and a patrol patch. The quality unit award was for a cub pack. Both collars had pins in them, one was an AOL for their son, I dont know what the other was for. They had temporary patches on the left pocket, the left pocket flap (not OA) and above the left pocket. They also wore the National Camp School patch on the right pocket. I have no idea what position this person held in Scouting. I thought it was way over the top. IMHO if you are going to be a staffer for any training you should wear the uniform correctly.

I see this thread has resurfaced. I want to add that this is the only Troop that I have run into so far that doesn''t create Patrols for every campout. I just think that keeping the patrol intact, and assigning kitchen duties by patrol, is more important than having a bunch of small groups that operate independently. Most groups that I have talked with that eat as a Troop just assign a few Scouts to cook for everyone and not even consider. The SM has said to me that he know this isnt the optimal way of doing things but it does allow them to keep food costs down and does keep the patrol together and working as a unit.

The Cub Pack I was in paid all training costs expect for Wood Badge, it was deemed too expensive. The first Troop I was with didnt believe in sending its leaders to training and discouraged adults from taking training. All my training costs came out of my pocket. I never figured out the second troop I was involved with. They had $8,000 in their bank account and everyone had to pay for their own training. I would love to have the Ship be able to pay of leader training but we just dont have the funds. So far Ship Leaders havent had to pay extra for training. All the basics, NLE, YPT dont cost anything and they offered Venturing Leader Specific and Sea Scout Leader Specialized Training at the Winter Training Weekend. If I want to attend Sea Badge Ill have to fund it myself.

Our councils official policy is that anytime you register in a new position (or change positions) you have to fill out a new application. Although Ive never had to do this for switching positions within a unit. For a MBC you need to fill out an application even if you are already registered. We also have another form that all MBCs have to fill out. On this form you put the MBs you want to council and why you are qualified to do so. There is also a box that you can check to say that you are a MBC for your unit only or if you are willing to do MBs District-wide. This goes to the District Advancement Committee for approval. Our council keeps coming up with policies like this but I dont really seeing them followed. A couple of weeks ago I received in the mail a registration card that said that I am on the District Committee. I dont remember filling out an application for this. As I am still on the District Training Committee for the District where I live which is different from the District this Ship is in. I have yet to be invited to any District Committee meetings outside the training Committee which I have been on for a couple of years. No one has fessed up to registering me for the District Committee yet.

Why is the Ship doing this? Because no other Venturing Crews or Advisor would do it. Over the winter I asked the CD about having the Ship involved in this years WB course. He wasnt sure about the LNT part but when he couldnt find another Crew to participate he asked us. I would agree that if they are teaching Leave No Trace that they should have taken a training course. But, if its anything like the WB I took, they arent really teaching LNT but just need to show how the principles of LNT are used to setup a camp site. LNT is actually a very small part of what the Venturers are doing, but they do need to supply any items they need. I just got an e-mail that said he does have some Boy Scouts that are going to help with this so the Ship members wont have to pull this off themselves.

According to the syllabus in WB for 21st Century, Venturers attend as staff and set up a model Leave No Trace camp site and explain it to WB attendees. In the course I took we had a separate session on the principles of Leave No Trace that was taught by one of the ASMs. A Venturer is then assigned to each patrol to assist the patrol to setup a Leave No Trace camp site. The Venturers also setup and run the problem-solving round robin. They then become part of the patrol and participate in the Diversity Game and camp fire. This is done to show how diverse the BSA program is and to expose a WB participant to a part of the Scouting Program (Venturing) that most have little knowledge of. It also is a great experiance for the Venturer, giving them practical experiance in teaching and talking to a group of people along with the networking for them with both the staff and WB participants. I had thought of getting some WAG-bags. I saw a web site that showed how to do a home-made version with zip-lock bags and kitty litter.

I received an e-mail for our Course Director asking if the Ship could help out and do the Leave no Trace presentation for Wood Badge. It seems he is has been unable to get any other Venturers to attend. I have the syllabus but it doesnt have a very good example of the model campsite. I remembered some of it from my Wood Badge but my memory isnt what it used to be. I have done an internet search but havent found an example yet. Does anyone have a link to an example of the model camp site or something they can send me? I know I have everything I need to do this but would like an example to make sure it is done correctly.

BSA Supply has a metal Hiking Staff Medallion of the Eagle Badge. $4.49 The Tooth of Time Traders at Philmont (they also sell these through a web site) sells a Hiking Staff Animal Top of an Eagle (and the other Wood badge patrols). Its a resin cast of a woodcarving. $12

As a unit leader I think the hardest decision to make is when to sit back and let them fail and when to step-in and give advise or even to say they cant do something. Its really hard walking that fine line between letting them fail to learn something and letting them fail so bad they dont want to be involved anymore and having to realize that there are 100s of others out there that are depending on them to run a fun station. All the events at this camp-o-ree are being planned and run by youth members. Adults are handling the judging and compiling the scores but everything else is being done by the Scouts as it should be in a boy lead/boy run program. At last nights meeting, after discussing the amount of patrols they will have to run through, the Ship did agree to scale back. The young ladies are convinced that what they have planned will work in the time frame they have. I dont think its enough yet but it might be manageable if they take the time to set it up and run it through before hand. Unfortunately recruiting help from other units isnt an option. I cant get any of the other Venturing Crews or the other Ship in our council interested in doing joint activities. This District also scheduled this the same weekend as the Brotherhood Camp-o-ree which is done with the Canadian Scouts. Many Troops from the other districts (and a few from this district) are attending so they are not available.

One thing I have found that councils dont like to hear is you are being stopped form selling popcorn in anyway. I would contact my DE and whoever is in charge of Popcorn in your council and tell them youre being told you cant sell popcorn anywhere you want. Im pretty sure youll see this districting stopped. I have also found that if you sell a lot of popcorn the people at council listen. Every year our council recognizes the top popcorn selling Scouts and units Last year I saw that the Ship sold the most of all the Venturing Crew. The top selling Troops and Packs were recognized the Ship was not. Nor was the highest selling Venturer (a young lady in the Ship). In this years popcorn paperwork it said that the council would again be recognizing the top Cub and Boy Scout sellers When I turned in the ships consignment order I asked how come the top sellers for Venturing Crews werent being recognized. I told them I felt that our Ship members were being slighted when they went out and sold popcorn (a lot of popcorn) but nothing was said about them. It only took one look at the amount we ordered (it is more than both troops we were in combined with 1/6th the number of Scouts) to say that perhaps they would reconsider excluding the Crews. I know that if the ship sells everything were have taken and I dont see Ship members recognized for it, we will be looking for another fundraiser next year.

The Ship will be helping to staff a Boy Scout Camp-o-ree in a couple of weeks and are coming up with an event to run. The Camp-o-ree staff is planning on the high side for 300 Scouts to attend. The Ship will have to man the event for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the afternoon. This means during this time they will have to run between 40 to 60 patrols through the event or one patrol every 6 to 9 minutes. Due to other commitments and sports it looks like there will be only 3 young ladies there for the entire day on Saturday to run this. (others will be in and out during the weekend). The Ship would like to do a relay race. What they have planned is pretty ambitious and even though I think it would go over well what they are planning is way too much given the time frame and resources. In fact any one part of the relay race would be enough for the event. They have already eliminated a couple of things but my subtle hints to pair down even more dont seem to be getting across. I have suggested to them to get the relay race together and try it out before hand but nothing has been arranged for this either. As this is a scored event once they start running it at the camp-o-ree we cant scale it back. I dont want to tell them what to do but I also dont want them to be overwhelmed with running this either.

I though I would spin this off from what ASM59 wrote: Peer pressure seems to be one of the primary reasons for boys not wanting to continue in Scouts; IMHO I had a conversation about this the other day with my son. Hes a 10th grader and plays football . Some of the players were giving him a hard time about being in Scouts. He likes being in Sea Scouts and has no problem telling kids about what the Ship is doing. One of the players giving him a hard time is also in Scouts. When my son said something to him, the other kid said that he had quit his Troop. He told the team the only reason he staffed at our councils camp this summer was it was the only place that he could find a paying job (hes only 15). Two days later while out selling popcorn my son stopped at this Scouts house. He figured since he wasnt in Scouts anymore, he wouldnt be selling popcorn this year, and he would be able to make a sale. Dad answered the door. My son asked since your son quit Scouts would he be willing to buy popcorn from him this year. The father replied that his son hadnt quit Scouts. Dad called his son to the door and this kid admitted that he had only said that he had quit because being in Scouts isnt cool. Dad ended up buying popcorn from my son anyway. I have talked with a lot of parents who think that the Sea Scouts sounds like fun but thier kids won't even come check us out because it's not "cool". My daughter turned 14 this spring and joined the ship in June. I asked her to give it a try and she reluctantly agreed when one of her friends also agreed to tag along. When her friend decided it wasn't "cool" enough for her, my daughter didn't want to come anymore. After a couple of weeks my daughter had nothing to do on a meeting night so decided to attend another ship meeting. We went sailing and she had a blast and hasn't missed since. Her other friends won't even come out and see what it's like because Scouts isn't the "in" thing. They would rather hang out at the mall. My daughter used to go with them but now finds it boring and can't wait until Thursday night Ship meetings. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

In my council we are told to file a tour permit anytime a unit does not meet or is doing any activity outside its regular meeting place. I also have been told if we are absolutely positive that parents were going to be driving their Scout only to and from the activity that no tour permit was needed but if there was any chance that a parent would need to drive another Scout home, you should file a tour permit. It is also suggested to keep a list of all drivers in the unit and turn them all in on the Tour permit. This way if a change is made at the last minute they are listed. A Tour Permit is a lot different than getting a MBC application approved. I wouldnt take the 3 weeks to file a tour permit as set in stone. About a year ago our council sent out a notice that it was going to take at least 2 weeks to process tour permits to verify contents. Shortly after that I went over to the council office to turn in a tour permit, about 3 weeks before a trip, and get something from the Scout store. I gave the TP to the receptionist first then went into the Scout Shop. On the way out she called me over and had the tour permit done, less than 15 mins. I was expecting it to be mailed back to me For our August trip I mailed it in and had it mailed back in 3 days. As you can see from all the examples that every council handles these differently. I would suggest you go to roundtable and ask or talk with your DE and see what your councils rules on Tour permits are. As a side note, my CO and I had a long chat with our DE about BSA insurance. The topic of Tour Permits came up. The act of not filing one, by itself, will not cancel BSA insurance. If something happens 99.99% of the time a leader will be covered without having one filled. He did say that not filing one could cancel coverage as it could be shown as part of a series of negligent acts.

Its been about 5 years since Ive been in Cubs but it the Pack we were in it was suggested that every Cub sell $200 in popcorn (which gave the Pack about $65) no one was ever told they had to sell. We would tell parents that running a Cub Scout Pack cost money and if we could meet this goal that no dues would be charged. (Registration and Boys Life was collected separately). We always seemed to have 2 or 3 families that never sold any popcorn but always had a few that sold way more than $200 and as a whole always averaged more than $200 per Cub. I think what really helped was a handout that was made up showing where this money was spent. It had a cartoon of a Cub Scout on it and it gave a rough estimate on how much we spent per Cub on awards, pinewood derby and other events the Pack had. I was amazed at how many parents had no idea that the Pack had to pay for the awards that were given out.

What Unit Commissioner? I started the Ship last June. When I asked the DE who was my UC I was told if I wanted one I had to recruit one myself. The DC stopped in at our Open House last year. I asked him about getting a UC. He said that he should be able to find a boating person for a UC for us. I have yet to see one. Our Council Commissioner wrote in our council newsletter last winter that if its been sometime if we were visited by our UC we should contact him and he would make sure someone would pay a visit. After contacting him he told me that he would make sure that we would get a visit by a UC. Its been 7 or 8 months and I havent been visited by a UC or even our Council Commissioner. A couple of months ago in our district newsletter the DC wrote that the District Committee was looking for more Commissioners but so far hadnt been able to find anyone. He went on to say that some units didnt have a UC and some units never will. At this point I dont ever expect to have a UC (unless I find one myself). P.S. My DC did come out to train the Ships committee on how to run a BOR. I dont consider this a visit by a UC as we really didnt discuss the health of the unit or where we needed help.

Here in Central New York we have Salt Potatoes. These are small new (3 dia. or less) brown-skinned potatoes boiled, with the skin on, in very salty water (1 lb salt per 4 lbs potatoes). Cooked until very tender. They are dipped them in drawn butter while eating. These originated in the early 1800s when the area was known for its salt production. One of the processes to make salt was to heat a brine solution and boil off the water before setting it out to dry. For a cheap lunch salt workers would throw these small potatoes in to the brine to cook. They used these small potatoes as they were cheap as no one else wanted them.

Having just started a unit (a Sea Scout Ship) I worked close with my DE on the requirements about starting a new unit. Although we didnt spend a great deal of time on it we did get sidetracked and talked a little about what is needed to start a Pack and Troop. With my youngest starting Cubs he was trying to talk me into starting a Cub pack also. I was told by my DE an SE can waive the 5 youth minimum and a unit can be started with as few a 3 youth members. For a new unit you also need to specify your Chartered Organizations Institutional Head (IH) which is not a registered position. The COR is the only person who can be officially registered in more than one position. They can be the Committee Chair or a Committee Member. They also could be he IH. With the pressure that DEs are under to start new units perhaps the Pack with no CC, the DE found someone in name only.

It all has to do with program. A few years ago I went shopping for a new Troop when I felt the Troop we were in just wasnt delivering a good Scouting program and were reluctant to make any changes. After checking out at least a dozen troops and after talking with numerous other , in my opinion, many units just have no idea how to conduct a Scouting program. The CC from the troop we were in said to me, after the 4th outing in 2 years was canceled due to lack of interest: We have a great scouting program; its just that boys dont like Scouts any more. This troops program was entirely put together by the CC and SM. No Scouts in the Troop or any other adult had any say in the activities. Committee was on paper only; the Troop had stopped using patrols altogether and never held PLC meetings. The SM and CC had decided it was just easier to do it themselves. I had another leader say that I should check out his troop as they had a really good scout program. When I got to the meeting it was like a library. Scouts were sitting around with their noses in books not making a sound. The UC was in a corner of the room teaching the NSP. They handed me their yearly calendar. It consisted of 4 cabin camping trips, a lock-in at an indoor go-kart place and one tent camping trip in June. The summer camp they were going to was more like a country club. When I remarked how small the troop was, there was only about 12 or 13 scouts at the meeting, the SM said that it was less than half the Troop, they couldnt get the older scouts to attend and didnt know why. After about three months in the new Troop we joined, they held a yearly planning session. No scouts, adult only. I was told at this meeting that the Committee had decided that the Troop wasnt going to be boy lead and the adults were going to do everything. This was because the parents said the Scouts were so busy with other activities and they didnt have time to plan scout stuff too. At this same planning session these same parents who decided to do everything complained that the Troop needed to do a better job at teaching Leadership. Most of the parents in this troop saw making Eagle as just something else to put on a college application. An ASM of this troop told me they couldnt get boys to join the troop because it was an upscale community and the parents had the money so their kids did other activities instead of Scouts. Yet in another upscale community in our council, 25 miles to the west, they have 54% of the TAY in the communities Pack and Troop. The big difference is the program. One of the reasons I started a Sea Scout Ship was I was tired of seeing adult leaders shrug their shoulders and say that kids didnt like scouts anymore as why they cant recruit scouts or keep boys in there units. I was meeting Troops that had to turn away kids because if they grew any bigger they didnt have a place big enough in the community to hold their meetings (they had 80+ scouts). A few months back there was a Troop from our council highlighted in Scouting magazine. This troops has held a monthly outdoor activity for over 35 years straight. In a community of only 350 people this troop has almost 40 Scouts. When I meet Troops like these I find it hard to think that kids dont like Scouts anymore. It all has to do with program.

I wouldnt run a BOR for a Scout not in my unit. I would offer to work with his units committee to help them learn how to conduct a BOR. I just doesnt make sense to hold a BOR for a Scout in another unit as the BOR is a way to help judge a units program. Red flags would be going off if a SM came to me and asked if we could do an Eagle BOR for their son. Our currently the Ship only has one youth member that is registered only as a Sea Scout and is working on Boy Scout advancement. When it came time to do a BOR for him, none of the Ships Committee had any idea of how to conduct one. I contacted my DC and asked if someone from the Commissioner Corp could come and show our committee how to hold a BOR. My DC came and ran the BOR, instructing the committee on how to hold a BOR. A young unit will never get experienced at doing these if every time one comes up they get someone else to do it. FScouter writes - Considering that a troop must have a minimum of 3 committee members to charter, they should never not have enough for a board of review. I could see where a unit that only has 3 committee members not have enough people to do a board of review if one of these is a parent to the Scout and a relative should not be on a BOR.

Online at www.scouting.org there is Crew Officers Orientation. At our Scouting University we are having an "open" media room for online training. The problem is that we won't really be "online" and everything needs to be on a CD. I am putting together the Venturing Training. I didn't see where this can be ordered. Deos anyone know if this is avalable or does anyone have this on CD and can send me a copy?