CNYScouter

The Sea Scout Ship has been asked to "judge" a Raingutter Regatta. When I was a CC of a Pack we did do one of these so I am familiar with them. I am looking for some fun ideas we can do to spice things up. I really dont have much idea what they are expecting from us. I think just a couple of us showing up in uniform is all they are really looking for. Any ideas?

Our council has gone to internet advancement reporting. I have one Sea Scout working towards his Eagle and used this for the first time to record a couple of MB's he had earned. While looking through the awards it showed an award for "Sea Scouting Lifeguard" It also lists BSA Lifeguard. I did a search for the requirements but have come up blank. I didn't see a patch or award for this in the Scout Catalog either. Has anyone heard of this and know where to find the requirements (if they exist)?

In the syllabus of SM/ASM Leader Specific Traing in the Troop Organization session under Patrol Descriptions New Scout Patrol (A new-Scout patrol may hold frequent patrol leader elections so that each boy has the opportunity to serve for one or two months.)

I didnt get what I was looking for but it doesnt look like it exists. The G2SS implies that a registered leader is covered but doesnt come out and say so. (which is what I was looking for) Dont get me wrong I think this shooting club is doing a good job with teaching shooting. They understand the safety needed around firearms and do a good job teaching the Scouts this also. They just dont seem interested in Scouting only the insurance it brings. A lot of the attitude I see from them is the lack of knowledge of Scouting program. Where the BSA has real expertise is in helping CO's and clubs like the shooting sports club put together an effective, long-term youth program that builds future members, draws in adult and parent members, and strengthens both the organization and the community. I wish my DE used this as a "pitch" of the BSA program instead of the insurance the BSA can bring to a CO. I think if this was used we might see better performing units and COs that take a real interest instead of just supplying a place to meet and getting a good deal on insurance. Running a range or a rifle contest is only one aspect of runnin' a successful youth program. And most shooting clubs and other organizations don't have anywhere near the BSA's experience with running adventure learning programs of all kinds. Lots of times when they try to put together a youth program, it's very short-lived and very small. The last time this crew met there was concerns about the dwindling attendance. I have seen the CC trying to get some of the leaders to attend training but they are just not interested. So, I can see what you are saying happening to this group. That's why the partnership. Sure, teach us about shootin' sports, we acknowledge your expertise. Now let us teach you about youth programs. I like this attitude. I never heard it put quite this way. I think this is a great reason to use for adults to take BSA training. I plan on using it.

The Ship hasnt gotten anyone near this requirement yet. Currently we are getting ready to attend the regatta in Maryland on Memorial Day. I dont know how many are going yet but at least a couple of us will there. I think the Ship has this on the schedule for the fall. Our Mate told us that one of her friends teaches this for the Power Squadron. We are planning on using them or trying to get someone else from the local Power Squadron. I am planning on taking The Squadron Boating Course which does cover the basics of piloting if it is ever offered close by again. They also offer a Chart Smart course that covers a good deal of what you are looking for. Again trying to find a local USPS who is teaching this is often difficult. Get with the US Power Squadrons! We have a National Agreement with them, and you can get their courses either free or at low cost. What is the National Agreement? I had a long talk with one of their trainers (who was also an ex-Scouter and ex-DE) at the local Boat Show last month. He didn't seem to have any idea about an agreement (or he at least didn't mention one). I was also told I had to pay whatever everyone else does and they couldn't give the Ship any price break on classes. emb021-I think its great you have support like this. The local USPS president said to me that they support what the Sea Scouts do but don't count on getting any help fom them as she had enough trouble getting trainers to the few courses they scheduled much less getting people willing to help us.

This is just another example of where the CO has no real idea of what is going on, how the Scouting program works and were told the only responsibility it had was to supply a place to meet. When my DE sold the Ships CO (and this shooting crews CO) on the Scouting program he used as the big advantage for a Scout unit was the BSA liability insurance and the supplemental liability insurance our council provides. It took a phone call from me and 2 calls from the head of the Ships CO to get a copy of the charter agreement and insurance information from our council If a council is going to use the liability insurance as a selling point to a CO the information needs to be readily available. I am not a leader in this crew but I know this organization has a good record as I shot rifles there when I was in Scouts but this is the first time they have chartered a unit. The other thing with this crew is that its leaders are not training in Scouting or Venturing. They are all very knowledgeable and are NRA trained and certified in rifles and pistols but none have gone to any Scout training and I have heard a couple of them tell the CC they wont go. After being involved with the Ships CO and their concern about liability and insurance coverage I am confident that as a registered BSA Leader I will be covered if I am doing approved BSA activities and following safety procedures. This one leader acts like the BSA has no experience with shooting sports. I have to think that the BSA understands the risks involved with shooting sports as I see that shooting has been around ever since the introduction of the Marksmanship MB in 1911.

My son has been shooting pistols with a new crew that just started. A question arose from a new leader of this crew about being covered with BSA liability insurance. He wanted to know where it said that as a registered BSA leader he was covered by this insurance. His main concern was that allowing 14 to 20 year olds to fire pistols in NYS has only been permited when a new law was passed in Aug. 2006 and this is totally new to most pistol shooters and pistol instructors. I didnt know for sure where this is stated so I did a search though the BSA material I had and on-line but the only place I see this is in the Annual charter agreement under The council agrees to: Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the chartered organization, its board, officers, chartered organization representative, employees and volunteers currently registered with Boy Scouts of America. I thought this was on the adult Application but I dont see it listed. Does it say this anywhere else?

I have to say being in a co-ed Ship has brought about some unique situations. In the near future I can see an issue coming up. One of the young ladies in the ship has a younger brother, currently in Scouts, who wants to join the Ship when he turns 14 in September. She doesnt want him to join. I think she sees the ship as her thing and doesnt want him around. So far she hasnt put much effort into the Ship. Shes lucky to make every other meeting. She been to most of our activities but doesnt seem to be around much during the planning part nor does she seem real interested in doing so. From what I have seen with her younger brother is that he is an overachiever. I heard the perfect kid rumblings coming from her when her Mom mentioned to me about him joining the ship in the fall. He sold a huge amount of popcorn last year, has 20+ MBs (hes not in a MB mill but has taken full advantage of the opportunities that have been made available) and hes currently the SPL in his Troop (and Ive heard from his leaders hes doing a pretty good job). The only reason his sister heard about the Ship is because my son and him took a MB class together and while waiting I told their Mom about starting a Sea Scout Ship. I am not seeing this with my own kids. My daughter will be old enough to join the Ship in June. My son doesnt seem to have a problem with her joining (or at least he hasnt said so).

My youngest is starting school in the Fall. As we have the Loins Cubs for Kindergarden he has the opportunity to join Cubs then. I still don't know if we are going to start him in Cubs this early yet. Form what I have ben hearding this program isn't doing that well and I know that not all Packs are using this program yet (or even if they are going to continue with it). The Pack that used to be in his elementary school folded a couple of years ago so I need to find a Pack to join. Living in a very populated area there are easily 50 packs within a 20 min. radius for us. I have heard that they are going to restart this pack with a new CO but so far its only talk and I am definitly not interested in trying to start a pack. What would like to see in a Pack to join? I think that the CM position would be important and needs to work well with the Cubs. I am also considering visiting not only a monthly Pack meeting but a Pack committee meeting as well. I think that if I had gone to a committee meeting for either of the Troops it would have given a much better idea of what the unit was like. I know that I would like to find a Pack that actually has a commitee that functions as it should and things are not just done by one or two people. What else would look for in a good Pack program?

A couple of the Sea Scouts are also involved with target shooting. They have asked about the Venturing Shooting Sports Achievement Award. From the application it says: While working on the Ranger Shooting Sports elective, you are required to complete one of the following disciplines: air pistol; air rifle; archery; muzzle-loading rifle; shotgun; pistol; or small bore rifle. However, if you go beyond the basic requirement and complete five of the seven disciplines, you will earn the Venturing Shooting Sports Outstanding Achievement Award. The Ranger Shooting Sports Elective has other requirements to fulfill the elective. It is not clear if to earn the Venturing Shooting Sports Outstanding Achievement Award you need to do all the requirements for the elective. I was wondering if any one had any experiance with this.

I guess that is really some bells and whistles. This doesnt even compare to most of the District events I have gone to. But if they are losing 30-40 scouts a year and having to replace of the Troop every year, they would need to do something this big. This seems like a big number of scouts to be losing a year. Are most Troops seeing this percentage of loss? I think that what you are doing is great and will pay off in the long run. I think some of what you are seeing has to do with the thread about the schism between Packs and Troops. Most Cub Scouts and their parents do not have any real idea of what makes up a good Troop program and the big production just wows them into this Troops program. I would stress to the WELBELOS (and mostly the parents) the advantage of the smaller troop and getting to know their sons and how they may get lost in a larger Troop. (without mentioning any names or numbers). Are you supplying Den Chiefs to any Packs? Getting and knowing the Cubs early is a great way to recruit. My son was a Den Chief and even the WEBELOS that werent in the Den he was working with ended up joining his Troop just by having him involved with the Cubs at Pack meetings. Are you having Scouts do any of the recruiting with you? An older Scout promoting your Troop will go much farther than any adult coming in and talking about a Troop. How about your Troop and some of the other smaller Troops teaming up to do your own mega-event? Have each Troop set up there own station and promo material that allows the WEBELOS and the parents to what each Troop is about?

Chippewa29- I'm curious. What are the the bells and whistles that the other Troop uses?

I have to go with the canned Dinty Moore Beef Stew also. One other thing we used was the sliced turkey and gravy in the boil in bags served over rice or mashed potatoes. They came frozen and we used them to keep other stuff cold. Easy to cook and not much clean up. These were great on a cold day. My son has tried these and likes them but the stores around here stopped carrying them a few months back.

Now that I have almost finished my Wood Badge Ticket, I just need to sit down with the Boatswain and work with him to put the finishing touches (and rewrite) the Ships plan to attend the Regatta on Memorial Day, I need to start working on some new goals. The first one will be to get the committee functioning as they should. I have a parent who has volunteered to be Treasurer and outside of getting a CC that will fulfill the role (first on my list) what other Committee positions would you concentrate on finding? What priority would you give to finding each position? I know we have some positions unique to the Ship, such as a person to handle boat donations, but outside of those what position would you consider critical to unit committee. Im working with our CO to see if we can get some of its members to step up but need to put together what the Ship needs.

I now understand why we have so many units that do little or nothing to support our council in the way of FOS, popcorn sales or even attending District events. It seems that our council has its own form to use for MBCs. You have to keep trying to you find the right person who has it. Council level volunteers are much help. All I get from them is to contact my District. And around and around it goes. I think a lot of this has to do with the DE leaving. He did everything. Now that he is gone no one else has any idea what to do. Beavah, this is what I had in mind when doing this. The Ship Mate (assistant Advisor) has been sailing for 45+ years. She is fully trained both Venturing and Sea Scouts. She does need help with the First Aid part of the MB which I am in the process for getting certified in both First Aid and CPR along with BSA Lifeguard so it will a joint effort to put this together. Eamonn, Im not giving up the Ship just yet. I just got an application for one of the parents to be on the Committee so we have enough leaders to recharter on time and make Quality Unit.

As a way to promote the Ship we have discussed holdiing Small Boat Sailing Merit Badge classes this summer. To do this we first need to get one of the leaders registered as a MB councilor. I thought this would be pretty easy to do but no one in my district can tell me what I need to do to get someone registered as a MB councilor. I know that an adult application needs to be filled out. I am told that there is another form that needs to be filled out but no has a copy or knows how to get one. The council web site says to contact your district advancement chairman but our district doesn't have one. I can't even call our DE as he left and his replacement isn't starting for another month. Our DC didn't know what was needed and told me to call council. But he wasn't sure who I needed to talk with there. I though that registering as a MBC would be straightforward instead I have to spend all sorts of extra time trying to track down how to do this. It's no wonder why our council is struggling when it is difficult just to find out something simple as this.

pargolf44067 I know what you mean about not being prepared. When I find out about an activity I think the Ship might be interested in attending I get info about it out to the members. No one, not even the adult bother to read it and are not sure about going. The Boatswain or I send the whole time telling about the activity but people still can't make up there mind about attending so a decision gets put off. I just came tonight form a SHip meeting where I tried to get Sip members to take on a task. I couldn't anyone to commit to taking on a task, not because they didn't want to but they had no idea if they could make the activity. Over a month ago one of the Sea Scouts suggested we take a look at a sailing charter in the Bahamas that her brother's Troop did a few years ago for a long-cruise in 2008 Everyone wants to go but no one will commit to a date that far in advance so we can figure the costs and make reservations to hold the date. They did decide on a fundraiser, It's back to the can and bottle drive. They just haven't decided where and when.

One thing the Ship has yet to draw is the bored older Scout. My son is the only Sea Scout that was in Dirt Scouts and in the 3 years he was in a Troop he had no opportunities to learn how to plan, heck I dont he was ever asked if he had any ideas for activities or trips. Knowing that the youth didnt have planning skills this has been an area where I have spent a lot of time trying to teach the Scouts. They dont seem to have problem deciding on something to do, but as Eamonn has stated it hard to plan something when you never know who it going to show up for the next meetings and it basically stalls if any of them actually have to go and figure any details, including when to go. It just seems that the kids are content to sit back and wait for someone else to step forward to plan something. If the Ship isnt doing someting they will just jump to another program that is offering a planned activity for them. (This has pretty much been happening all winter). I dont blame the Sea Scouts but this is the way every other activity is run, including the other Venturing Crews they are in. I have not given up just yet but I am still looking for ideas. We have cleared the first hurdle and have enough Scouts and adults to recharter and we were even given a small donation to keep moving forward until we can get a fundraiser going. Its hard to recruit kids into a fun and exciting program when I cant seem to get the ones in it interested in planning fun and exciting activities. Also rechartering in March makes it a hard sell for youth program, primarily into sailing, when there is 3 feet of snow on the ground. The whole Patch Wearers instead of PORs one of the big reasons I became discouraged with the Boy Scout program. The adults in both Troops were with,gave Scouts free passes with PORs using the excuse that they were busy with other activities to be active in the Troop. Same can be said with planning activities, they didn't want totie up the Scouts time in having to plan everything so it was done for them. I think this bypasses the whole purpose of Scouts of teaching youth to make ethical choices. I think making a Scout decide between Rank Advancement and doing the other activity is a perfect example of what we are trying to do. Maybe I am "old school" bt to me if a Scout cant devote 4 or 6 months to working in a POR with the Troop he dosen't deserve his next rank. He can parisipate all he wants but he needs to put some effort in a POR if he wants to advance. I think a lot has to do with parents wanting it all for their kids but needing to cut corners to get it for them. In the Ship, advancement is a whole other issue. We do have a couple of Sea Scouts close to making Apprentice Rank this spring or early summer. I am hoping this will spark interest into the advancment Program. But then again the Ship members need to be willing to spend 16 hours working on projects outside ship meetings to make rank.

I know the Ship is still fairly new but trying to get the Ship members to actually plan out an event is one area that we still need to work on. And from mnay of the Troops I am seeing and hearing about it is a pretty common problem. All of the Sea Scouts are involved with other activities; some are even in Venturing Crews. They seem to bounce around to the different activities, but arent around to plan them. They show up once in awhile to find out what is going on but getting them to sit down and plan an activity just isnt happening. Eamonn talks about cafeteria Scouting. I dont know if that is what I am seeing but it seems that the Ship members are happy to attend events but just dont seem interested in planning or even selecting what they want to do. We have even scheduled time to do this but most of the Ship members had canceled by the day it was scheduled. One big frustration I have found is after visiting some of the other Venturing Crews that the Ship members are in, none are really youth lead. The adults stand up front and announce when the next activity is and wait for the kids to tell them they are going. I am finding it hard to know where draw the line to stop planning activities and the Ship falling apart due to the lack of things going on or keep organizing the activities hoping I can get the Ship members someday to start doing this on there own.

Ever been a unit number 666? ( I have seen an Explorer Post near here with that number. I've seen it on an "Adopt-a-Highway" sign so I don't know what the Post does.

As far the whole rechartering process this year in our district its really a mess. Our District has no UCs. Our DE got a promotion earlier this month and has moved to another council. To save money our SE is not hiring his replacement until April, a month after the recharters are due. They are still trying to get the Centennial Quality Awards done. The DC has said they hope to get them all in by June or July. I gave our IH and COR the syibuss for COR training to look at. I think they read it as one of them actually called and tried to setup a meeting with the DE about the charter. He never responded. Heck, it took a call from me and 2 from our IH just to get a signed copy of our original charter agreement. The DE said that the charter agreement wasnt that big a deal and only a formality. This will be the 3rd unit I have helped with rechartering. In all 3 someone was given the packet by our DE at Roundtable. We were pretty much left on our own to get it done. We were told that we could come to our council offices and our DE would help units through it. Why was this questioned asked in the first place? I was given the recharter packet at roundtable. Being new to the district I have been going to roundtable meet the few District people we do have and to meet the other unit leaders. The CC for the ship told me that his daughter wont be coming back and neither will he. So, we are now trying to find someone new and this question was asked by one of the other current committee people if we cant find a person to be CC by the time to recharter.

We are in the middle of recharting. There is always a push to recharter on-time. A question was asked to me What happens if we dont get it done? What really happens if you dont recharter on-time? How long before the charter runs out? If you are late with rechartering is a unit still covered by the BSA insurance? How long can you be late before a unit is no longer covered? I have heard of units that were 7 or 8 months late in getting their recharter done and they are still around. It doesnt look like anything happened to them (except they didnt make quality unit that year).

When I look at the OLS syllabus I can see where we have cut down on time for some of the sessions. To get everything in, we start hour earlier one morning and 1 hour earlier the other morning. But I dont see how making the trail lunch 1 hour instead of 1-1/2 hours and eliminating the 2 hour open discussion period takes away from the course. I do agree that tying to cram too much in such a short time is not a good thing but I think the council training staff decided that its better to have leaders get training this way than then them not taking it at all (which was happening when we ran them as separate sessions). We also require that leaders take NLE before they come. On the form they fill out to sign up it says participants need to take NLE before coming. Its also in the letter all participants receive about a month before the course starts Still at the Tuesday night session about 25% (8 to 10 people) show up not having taken this. At the end of the Tuesday night each person who hasnt taken NLE is given how to find it on-line, is told ask their Unit Trainer to get it and they are also given contact information for their district training chair to call if they dont have a unit trainer so they can arrange to take it from one of the district trainers. We still have 6 to 8 people show up, 10 days later, on Friday night that havent done it yet so it was decided to offer it Friday night rather then send these people away. It makes for a long day, (runs from 9:30pm to 11pm) but if we didnt offer it these are the ones who would never get around to taking it. The one thing I find amazing is the training staff gets 2 or 3 requests every time we run this asking if we can add more training on this weekend.

After taking 1-1/2 years off, Sea Scouts has gotten my son thinking about working on obtaining Eagle. Hes not that far off only needing 6 required MBs and a couple of non-required MBs. He has finished the POS for Life and will have no problem with the POS for Eagle. He has started to think about his Eagle project and I want to see what everyone thinks about one he seems to want to do. I found out that our CO, a non-profit Sailing Club, received a grant a few years ago to build a kiosk (a permanent bulletin board) promoting Recreational boating. The club leases its clubhouse from our county and it is located in a county park along the lake where the Ship sails and the kiosk will be located. Our CO has the money and has detailed plans to build it but has never gotten around to putting it up. There is a great deal of work to finish this project as he would need top get the plans approved by the county (and where to put it), purchase the material, and recruit labor to build it. I know a lot of an Eagle project is writing it up, but was wondering what concerns we he have if this is the project he wants to do? I guess I have a concern that this is for our CO, but it would go into a public park. He has plenty of time and I thought I would run this by the forum and see what every one thinks before proceeding.

Our council combined SM Specific and Basic Outdoor Skills over 5 years ago. One of the reasons was that adults were taking Basic Outdoor Skills but not the SM Specific. This is the only training that our council holds that fills up and has a waiting list. We do the first part of SM Specific on a Tuesday night from 7pm to 10pm. Two weeks later the rest is cover from Friday night to Sunday afternoon getting out about 3:00pm. Before they leave on Tuesday night each patrol has to have a Patrol name and elect a patrol leader The time between these sessions allows the participants to come up with ideas for a patrol flag and patrol yell. Usually by the time the weekend is over the Patrols have come together and are doing a pretty good job working as a team. I think this time in between helps with this. On Friday night, instead of going to cracker-barrel, NLE is given for anyone who needs it. I do admit the schedule is tight to run it this way. There no down time. I think the biggest complaint is that if you need to use the latrine (or bathroom if they are open) you will miss part of the training as there is just no room in the schedule for free time between sessions. I do think that 2 weekends may be better but finding the time would be tough. Not only for the participants but finding enough trainers to be able to attend two weekends may be even more difficult. We are also experimenting with running WLOT at the same time as the Outdoor weekend of SM Specific/Outdoor Basic. There are few session that can be combined such as knots and campfire planning. For both of these we do foil dinners for Saturday night so by doing this together we can share Quartermasters. One positive thing it does give the WEBELOS leaders an idea of what a troop program is like. It also allows us to share recourses, as we usually have some of the training staff show up to do one specific area, such as map and compass, which they can run at both levels. We have done these together a couple of times and have run them on separate weekends a few times also. It will decided after the spring training if we will stay with the combined courses or not. I think this works out well. I don't think we short-change anyone. As most of the SM Specific is classroom it gives a way to break up the Outdoor stuff and move inside for a short-time. This really helps if the weather isn't cooperating.