CNYScouter

I know this has been discussed before but I think we are trying to compare apples to oranges to bananas. I see a big difference between Program interpretations, Program adaptations (tweeks) and Program modifications. Program interpretations Areas like the Tenderfoot requirement discussed here on what improvement is or what Scout Sprit is or what active is will all mean different things to different people. As pointed out one unit may see the physical requirement more important than another and see improvement differently than another. I do think that after 2 years a discussion is in order if a Scout is being held up in Advancement because of this. Program adaptations (tweeks) These all ways that I have either seen or have heard about that Troops use to implement the Uniform Method: 1) ASM gives any Scout in full uniform a candy bar. 2) Honor Patrol competition where a patrol gets points for every Scout in full uniform. 3) Troop Tradition If you join this Troop everyone wears a full uniform. It has been this way since anyone can remember. All Adults and Scouts follow this. 4) SM stands at front door of meeting place and sends any Scout home not in full uniform. There are no guidelines that state that any of these are the right way or wrong way but clearly the last one is not really in line with the BSA program. I would hope that a UC would have a discussion with a unit that does this and suggest ways that better follow the program. Program modifications Having a Scout serve on a BOR. The guidelines are pretty clear about who can sit on a BOR. No SMs, ASMs and anyone sitting on a BOR must be over 21. I also think that a UC would have a discussion about this with a Unit/CO. Using the Program modification example what would you do if after meeting with a COR/CO and unit leaders you got the following responses: Scenario 1) Very close to what I am hearing from many units/leaders, at least around here. COR/CO: We dont have much to do with the Troop and are Hands-off with any thing with the Troop. Anything they do is OK by us. Unit Leaders: We just found it easier to do it this way than to follow the guidelines. Scenario 2) I think this is closer to the point Beavah is trying make (and closer to what the LDS church has done) CO/COR: We as a CO feel that to better fit our mission a Scout should be reviewed by one of their peers and we think that having a Scout sit on a BOR does just that. Unit Leaders: We are following our COs guidelines I think in the second case the CO has thought about this and has made an educated decision and this should be respected. But in the second case the UC should offer to work with the Unit Leaders to better understand the BSA program to get them to follow the program. With the "slippery slope" argument I dont think it necessarily means that If someone puts an 'Untrainable' patch on their uniform for humor's sake, then where does it end? Jeans? A shirt of their choosing? It is just a slippery slope that leads to adults going to events with no clothes at all!!" But does make it easier for a unit to justify that if one modification is OK that the next one and the next one are OK also. This doesnt mean that a unit is not turning out Scouts with Bad character but does make a difference between a unit that is running a "good" Scout program and one that is running a poor Scout program (which could be a topic in itself).

I knew about Spielberg and wasnt sure about Moore due to his political leanings to the left. I saw that Donald Rumsfeld is an Eagle but I am not sure how many Scout age kids know who he is and was trying to come with someone that the youth could relate to. I have to say that as a kid that Gerald Ford wasnt the coolest guy to promote Scouts, but he was the President (which I guess was pretty cool in itself) and everyone knew who he was. OGE-I like the series of commercials similar to the PC/Macintosh series idea. Perhaps these commercials could be done by highlighting non-famous Eagles and Scouts who have achieved success in their field and how Scouting helped them achieve that success.

The passing of Gerald Ford reminded me of a promotional commercial he did for the BSA either while he was President or shortly after. With the postings about updating Scouting got me to thinking about what public figure that is popular today would make a good spokesperson for the BSA. I dont think that last couple of Presidents fit into this and it seems that many of todays athletes are into the Bad Boy image. I cant think of any Hollywood types that fit the image either. I like the idea of promoting Scouting using the extreme sports angle but dont see many people involved in these sports that represent the values of the BSA. I can only think of a couple of names that might have the image that the BSA would want to portray From the NFL: Payton Manning? Donavan McNabb? Maybe a NASCAR driver? Kurt Busch? Apollo Ohno, the Olympic speed skater? Or maybe we dont need a spokesperson at all?

Thats it! The reason why Scouting is seeing a big drop in numbers. Poor quality Patches. (said with extreme sarcasm)

OK, I should have said that anyone/group preparing and/or cooking food, and selling/giving it to the General public, such as Lenten Fish Fry, needs to have a Food Service permit. Our CO has a Club House with a kitchen. It does not hold fundraisers such as Spagetti Dinners and only uses it for cokking Sunday Dinner for club members doesn't have a Food Service permit. As Popcorn is not being prepared or cooked you don't need a Food Service permit to sell it.

Foodservice legal?? Ya think that's really necessary? How many Lent fish fries are foodservice legal? Around here any group selling food is required to have a permit and go through Health Inspections and would be shutdown if found operating without one. My father-in-law deals with the health inspections a couple of times a year at the church he belongs to as they do different types of dinners for fundraisers and always seem to have one or two violations that need correcting. The permit however would cover a group such as a Pack or Troop using the kitchen as a fundraiser.

For those who like Drill one of the elective for the rank of Able in the Sea Scouts is: Drill: Demonstrate your ability to give and execute commands in close-order drill You can get the Sea Scout Drill Manual at: ftp://seascout.org/pub/Program/Drill_manual.pdf

I don't now much about this place but the Sea Scout Winter Weekend is being held at Camp Round Meadow, Catoctin Mountain Park, Maryland which is only about 30 miles South of Gettysburg. We will be staying in bunkhouses and they have room for 120+. In the boarding manual it said that in Thurmont, MD (just outside the Park) is the Thurmont Scout Building. The Thurmont Scout Building is two rooms, one room 25 x 40 with a fireplace and access to two rest rooms (a sink and commode) and a water fountain. The back room is the storage area, 12 deep and 25 wide providing a place about 8 x 10 and another 4 x 12. You will have to do some more research about where to find rental info but here is a place to start: http://neregion.seascout.org/training/winter.html There is a e-mail address for someone who should be able to point you in the right direction.

The Ship has now been chartered for 6 months. Since June I have seen gotten the following: Twice I have gotten an e-mail from our DE asking to recruit more members as the District was close to making its recruitment goal. As a unit we expected to go out do recruiting to meet these goals. But as far as the District or Council goes there is nothing about the Venturing program or any of the Crews in any newsletter or Web Sites. I cant even get an article published about the Ship (Ive submitted one to both the Council and District newsletters). September 1 our Council went to mandatory training for any Adult Leader new to their position. I have been trying to get a Training calendar so my Leaders can take NLE and YPT. I found out the reason I cant find a Training calendar is that our Council training Chair wants this training done by the Unit. Last week I got information about the Fair Share program. Under this voluntary program each Unit is expected to come up with $50 per scout for FOS. This is above and beyond any Popcorn Sale. Today I got the District newsletter. They are having a Nomination Conclave and are asking for at least one representative from each Unit to help identify potential nominees for the positions that need to be filled for the District Committee and Commissioners. As a Unit they want us to come up with names from the community-at-large to fill open positions at the District level. The Ship is having a tough time trying to get leaders for the unit now they want us to come with District people too. Asking established units to do these things are hard enough but trying to get a new unit going along with this stuff is becoming overwhelming. The Ship is not the only unit struggling with this. I talked with a leader from another new unit that is struggling with this also. It seems the answer to our problems is to make the unit do it.

I had an experience Scouter tell me that meal planning can be one of the most useful ways to teach Leadership skills to Scouts and can be one of the most difficult things to master. I think this a good example of why (and can be turned into a great learning experiance). I cant add much more to the advice given and agree that sitting down with the SPL/PL and asking him what he thinks could have done better (and then giving some of these suggestions) is the way to go. I am real big into Patrol competitions. I think this is a tool that is greatly under utilized. Scout age boys thrive on competition and cant get enough of it and just about anything can turned into a competition. This one of the advantages to have more than one patrol (even two small Patrols) in a Troop. To turn Meal planning into a competition: I would work with the SPL to set some rules (no poptarts, hot dogs or Dinner must be a dutch oven meal or whatever fits into the situation; this where a leader needs to be a little creative). Then let them work it out themselves. Give the first patrol finished with its menu (of course it has meet the rules and SPL/SM approval) a reward such as a special treat on the camping trip or a dessert cooked by the Adults or the Adults do the winning patrols dishes for one meal, is given to the winning patrol. For a small single group rewards could be based on time (done in under 20 min. one reward, done in less than 15min 2 rewards).

Do councils ever look at the socio-economic status of the various units when they plan out their FOS campaigns? In the details about our councils new Fair Share program it said that they did a study on FOS contributions and it showed that Per capita income there was very little difference in the amount given. I saw District Popcorn and FOS goals for the year. Our Council has one District that is almost twice this size as the next biggest District. But because this District has a large low-income area its popcorn and FOS goals were lower than the 2 other Districts in the same county. So I have to say the answer is Yes councils do look at the socio-economic status of the areas they serve.

You will find the Civil War reenactment crews web site with contact information at: http://www.the12thus.com/venture/index.htm

At least someone in your council is at trying to make an effort to put something together. But I think Eamonns councils Venturing program looks pretty much like our councils. Since our DE has suggested the Crews get together and try each crews specialty I have been looking into the other crews around. The District the Ship is in has 13 Crews and the Ship. This is more than the other 5 Districts in the council put together. 5 of these are Shooting Crews (rifle, air rifle, pistol, archery and skeet). They dont do anything more than get together a couple of times a month and shoot. 1 does Civil War Re-enactment. 1 is for District Eagles that gets together a couple of times a year and does special service projects. Another is for the Army Core of Cadets. They charter a troop and crew to use the councils facilities but are not involved any other way. The most active Crew is for special needs adults. I met them at a Scout Show last year. I dont think its members abilities would be up to any type of joint activity. I talked with a couple of the other Crew Advisors whose youth members are all in college and at this point only exist on paper. The other couple of Crews are from Troops which use them for the older scouts to do something a couple of times a year apart from the Troop. We do have another Ship in the council. It only has a few kids on its charter. They went out sailing a couple of times on one of its leaders boats but havent done much since. The rest of the Crews in the other Districts near us are associated with Troops and are used to do High Adventure Trips with some of the older Scouts and dont really do Venturing Activities. My son has asked about putting together an activity with other Crews but I am not real sure there is going to be much interest.

What is a Council provisional charter? What things would have to occur to issue a provisional charter to a council? I am going to assume that this is like being put on probation So, can units/COs be issued a provisional charter? What things would have to occur to issue a provisional charter to a unit/CO?

I had this sent to me and thought you might like it: Reinwald was interviewed on the radio the other day and you'll love his reply to the lady who interviewed him concerning guns and children. Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you gotta love this!!!! This is one of the best comeback lines of all time. It is a portion of National Public Radio (NPR) interview between a female broadcaster and US Marine Corps General Reinwald who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military installation. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base? GENERAL REINWALD: We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery, and shooting. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it? GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children? GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to become violent killers. GENERAL REINWALD: Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute,but you're not one, are you? The radio went silent and the interview ended. You gotta love the Marines! AMERICA , THE HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE.

If the BSA's role, or business model, or legal relationship does not have the authority for quality control over the use of its program and only exists to assist community agencies and serve them as the community agencies run a part of their youth outreach then how can the BSA tell a CO who can and can not be a member? If the BSA has no authority over a CO in the use of its Scouting program, how can it tell a CO that Gays or atheists (or girls) can not be a member of their Scouting Program? What makes membership requirements different than any other part of the BSA program? There is also a big difference between does not have the authority and does not use its authority for quality control. I am really trying to understand this whole Authority thing.

I am hoping they spend some time discussing this at a Roundtable soon as I think this is going to be a noghtmare to administer and cause a great number of parents not to partisipate. My sons and I just got back from attending a Pistol Shooting Crew meeting. For the boys to shootthey are asking that they fill out a Venturing App and be put on the roster (insurance reasons they're saying). I now have 1 son in a Troop, Crew and Ship and the other in the Ship and the Shooting Crew. There is a young lady in the Ship that is in this Shooting Crew and another Crew that Shoots Air Rifles. In this program they are asking units for $50 per Scout in the Unit. I see no provisions in this for Scouts like this. If I am reading the program details right this will mean I need to come up with $250 for my 2 sons to be in these programs. By next Sept. when my youngest starts school and my daughter turns 14 I could have 4 kids in a BSA program. I see no provisions in the program for families having multiple kids. If my daughter registers with the Ship and Crew and the youngest in this will go up to $400 before registration, dues, trips or equiment. I am all for paying our fair share but I have to think there may be a better way to accomplish this.

The BSA corporation has no particular interest in, and no resources devoted to, making units comply with the Insignia Guide. I think this goes deeper than allowing older scouts to be allowed to wear a different uniform and could be extended to read The BSA corporation has no particular interest in, and no resources devoted to, making units comply with the BSA program. This, IMHO, is one of the big reasons the BSA is seeing a drop in numbers. The BSA produce videos like The Scout Zone but there are Troops that never come close to doing anything like this. I visited one Troop where they did 6 camping trips a year. 4 were cabin camping and one was an overnight at a sports center. The adults even washed the Scouts dishes on these trips. The CC said to me he didnt know why they couldnt get any of the Troops older Scouts to participate more. Wheres the UC in this? She was there every week teaching all the younger Scouts the Skills through first calss The BSA sells itself on being the nations foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. But, the number of Eagle Mills and adult run units I have met doesnt do much to fulfill this statement. I think this has been asked many times before: When does a change become OK? This unit has made a change that seems to work. In most cases the changes I have seen are not in the positive direction. Is it OK for a Troops parents and Committee to decide that since kids are so busy today that they are not going to be boy-led and the adults do everything or to have a SM not use the patrol method because its easier to do it himself and not have to worry about teaching Scouts leadership? The parents dont know any better and all stand behind the Units Leaders. The Troop that stopped using the Patrol Method loses 75% of the Scouts that join in the first year and less than 10% of the kids that join are there when they enter High School. I actually had an adult from this Troop say to me: We run a great Scout program its just that the boys dont want to participate. When they cant understand when this stuff happens these leaders just shrug their shoulders and say Its not what we are doing it is just that kids arent into Scouts anymore. The COs in these cases are AWOL as with most COs. These COs have no idea how a Unit should be run and could care less about the day-today operations. The Council and District are fully aware that this is happening but none are willing to step in and do something about it. I think the BSA had better stop being a numbers game and start worrying about quality if they want to reverse the decline.

I have been looking at some of the advanced training being offered next year. Here are the courses I have been looking at: Sea Badge (NE Region) Powerhorn (there is one close by this summer) Sea Scout Advanced Leader Training (SALT) at the Philmont Training Center. Delivering the Venturing Program at Seabase I have lots of information on Sea Badge and Power Horn but this is the first I have heard of SALT or Delivering the Venturing Program and cant seem to find much information on the internet about these. Has anyone taken any of these and has any comments? Any suggestions on which one to take or ideas on selecting which one.

I just saw in our councils newsletter, under the Ships District, that the District needs Commissioners. If you were interested or knew of any one that might be interested in wearing the silver tabs to contact the DE. I didnt think the DE had much to do with Commissioners. Arent Commissioners handled on the volunteer side of things?

Our councils newsletter came yesterday with more details on this program. They are asking for $50 per Scout. This can be raised by FOS (this includes any fundraising) or using the units 30% commission on popcorn (and council would get their 30% still). Some of the incentives if you meet this goal are: 1) No National registration fee. 2) No Insurance fee. 3) Depending on the size of the unit you will receive credit at the Scout Store. This starts with small units (under 20) receiving $50. Some of the things that came out about this program were: The $50 per Scout figure was derived from the councils budget. They are asking the units (volunteers and parents) to come up with (25%) of next years operating budget. Over half of the councils units raise less than $30 per scout and 40% of the councils units do not participate in Popcorn sales and FOS. They did a study about FOS donations. Donations were pretty even across the council for income areas. The higher income areas in the council made the same donation amounts as lower income areas and in a few places the lower income areas out paced the higher income areas. We have seen the loss of community support as many of the large employers (and BSA supporters) have left the area or gone out of business. The biggest employer in the area, a major university, has pulled its support and banned the BSA from its campus and the use of its facilities. The contributions from the United Way now only make up about 3% of our budget as some of the larger companies no longer support the BSA due to its discrimination policy. I am not sure what we are going to do as a council. The money to operate has got to come from some where.

From: http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank1.html Boy Scout Joining Requirements Effective May 15, 2004, Requirement 1 will be changed, as shown below, to establish a minimum age of 10 years old for all new Boy Scouts Old Requirement 1 1. Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade, or is 11 years old, or has earned the Arrow of Light Award, but is under 18 years old. New Requirement 1 1. Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade and be at least 10 years old, or be 11 years old, or have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old, and be under 18 years old. but would a troop accept or reject a 5th grader who happens to be 11? The answer may differ from Troop to Troop. All the Troops I know would welcome these boys.

From our list-server today: Participation is voluntary... this program has been used in other councils to not only raise funds for council services but also to raise the awareness of volunteers, parents and the community at large. By planning a sound popcorn sale a Pack, Troop or Crew can fairly painlessly achieve their 'fair share'. Ideally a unit will average or exceed the $50 just in FOS but we know that some families can't afford to participate and others may give way beyond the $50 because they have the resources, ability and interest. We count on that. No child will be turned away for an inability to pay and no unit will be denied services because they don't participate. One of the reasons given as why our council is in the financial dilemma it is was due to the amount of units that did not participate in Popcorn or FOS. If these units are not participating in Popcorn or FOS I dont see them volunteering to participate in the Fair Share program. Both troops we were in had 20%-30% of their rosters made up from Scouts who very rarely attended anything. Most of these were older Scouts whose parents kept them in the Troop hoping the might make Eagle someday. I dont see these Troops keeping these kids on the charter or participating in the program if they needed to raise $ per Scout. As a Sea Scout Ship (or a Venturing Crew) I dont see there being much incentive to participating. I would much rather have the money in the Ships account to use as needed than to have tied up at the Scout Store (which we dont use that much). When my son was in Cubs we made it known to every parent what it cost to have a boy is Scouts (for the Pack and the council) and how much popcorn that they needed to sell to cover this amount. It was not mandatory to sell and as a whole the Pack covered the amount. If this goes anything like the mandatory training requirements it wont be much of a program.

I saw a posting on our councils list-server that said that due to the councils serious financial difficulties there is a new Fair Share concept being presented based on that Scouting has traditionally encouraged our youth to learn to 'pay their own way'. Example of how Fair Share would work: Pack ## recharters with 50 members 50 members times $50 = $2,500 Pack ## holds a Friends of Scouting presentation at their Blue and Gold at which 25 families give a total of $1,250 which is half of their unit objective. The balance of $1,250 can be made up through the annual Popcorn Sale. Pack ##'s goal for the sale would then be $4,166 in gross sales assuming a 30% net to the pack. This would translate into an average of $84 in sales needed per member. While the pack would not receive commissions for this portion of their sale, they would receive commissions for anything beyond this and would have achieved their $50 per member in support of the council. At Recharter time the council will wave the $10 per youth member registration fee and the $1 per member insurance fee and places an additional $150 in credit in that units account at the Scout Service Center/Trading post. This would represent a $700 return to that unit. All the unit would have to pay is $20 national charter fee, leader fees and Boys Life fees. The posting said that this is an effort by our professional and volunteer leadership to encourage support for our council and at the same time provide a meaningful recognition and thank you to the units by freeing up funds normally spent for rechartering. From the posting it doesnt look like this is mandatory (yet) as each unit will need to complete a commitment form. I dont know much of the details , such if $50 per Scout is standard and there will be more information coming out about this in January. Are there any other councils doing this or anything similar? Has anyone participated in a program like this? Is it effective and is the advantage of this program worth participating in?

The BSA has a Supplemental Training Module called "Orientation for New Boy Scout Parents" This can be found at: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-110/index.html