CNYScouter

Last weekend the Ship went to the regatta. My son was one of the few Sea Scouts without his own cell phone. Our van has a VCR in it and a video game system was brought for the 9 hour drive to play and watch DVDs Once we got there it wasnt touched, no ban on using it, there was just too much to do during the weekend. While there I saw cell phones being used, but not much, as there was just too much going on. I didnt see any portable video games either. I barely found time to check in at home myself there was so much to do. If Scouts have enough time to sit around using electronics/cell phones on a camping trip I agree that more time needs to be spent on planning activities for a camping trips

Having done this a couple of years ago here are links to a couple of lists to look at: There is a thread from 2002 with a list called Common traits of successful troops http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=14781#id_101270 Not everyone will agree with everything on this list but I found this a good place to start. Below is a link that also has good questions to ask when looking for a Troop and I would try to find the answer to all of these: http://www.boyscouttrail.com/library/troop_questions.asp I also agree with going to more than one meeting before deciding, in fact 2 or more. In the Troop we ended up joining the only time any leaders, except the SM, wore even the uniform shirt was the first meeting we went to. After joining I came to the first meeting in full uniform and received many dirty looks from the other adults. Not a single adult in the troop owned a full uniform, most didnt even own a shirt and very rarely did they even wear that. Some very obvious things to look for: Where does the SM stand and who runs the meeting. (SM at back and SPL running things) Are there patrols or does the Troop gather as one big group. Are patrols flags present. Does the Troop have separate patrol meeting during a Troop meeting. Is instruction taught by age levels or in one big group. Also who is teaching an older scout or an adult (but this can depend on what is being taught) There are things I would have done differently: Attend a Committee Meeting before deciding. I think that these are a much better indicator on how a Troop is run. The first Troop we were with didnt have them, the SM made all decisions. The second troop the committee ran the troop and made most decisions. Get a schedule of activities for the year and if possible get a list of previous schedules. Not having one shows a good deal about a troop. If I had asked for a previous years schedule I would have seen that the second troop we joined did the same trips every year and had done so for the 4 or 5 years. Most monthly outings were lucky to have 8 or 9 scouts out of 30 go. How often and how long does the PLC meet? And who attends them? The first Troop never did them and the PLC in the second Troop only met 4 times a year, for 1 hour and any Scout in the Troop was welcome to attend. Spend more time talking with an older Scout and see what they think about the troop. I found out a great deal more from casual conversations with a Scout than I ever did with an adult. Almost every adult I talked with told me how great a Scout program they had and I have found Scouts to be very candid about whats really going on in the troop.

A couple of the reasons we are looking at doing a council-wide (or at least multiple districts) Venturing Roundtable that is separate are that most of our Districts dont have enough Crews in them to have a separate breakout session. My District has 13 crews and the Ship. This is more crews that the other 5 Districts combined. The District with the next biggest number of crews has 4. Another reason we are looking doing this separate is most Venturing Leaders are also involved with a Troop. Doing this on a separate night gives more people the opportunity to attend. Right know my District cant find a BS Roundtable Commissioner and the CS Roundtable Commissioner just stepped down after doing it for 5 years. Right know I am willing to take on one of these and so far no one else is willing to step up. I have the literature on both the Venturing Roundtable and the Heres Venturing booklet. I cant do both so which one of these would you start with?

I will have to agree with John-in-KC about this one. Our council is notorious for terrible record keeping. Starting at Tiger and at training, we remind Scouts and adults to keep any advancement or training cards they get as it will be the only way to show they have earned an award or taken training. It is almost impossible to find records through our council. A couple of years ago the Advancement person for the Troop went through and updated the records. There were over 100 mistakes for just Merit badges and this was for a Troop of about 30 Scouts. Our council has gone to Internet advancement. It did take me a few minutes to get the information in but now I know that the Units records are up to date and correct. It is nice as when you are done entering information it prints a report to turn in to council for their records.

Currently our council does not have either of these. A few years ago our council did try to get a Venturing Roundtable started but stopped after a couple because of poor attendance. At the District Dinner I sat with the councils FD and had the opportunity to discuss the Venturing program in our council. The FD told me there seems to be interest in starting these but no one has stepped forward to get them organized. I would be willing to organize one of these but dont have the time to do both. I have been asked by some of the Ship members about the Youth Cabinet. My son attends roundtable with me but has asked why there is not anything for the Venturing Crews. Can you do one without the other? If you can only do one which would it be?

I though I would post an update on what happen with the fundraiser over the weekend. Our CO really wanted the Ship to be there, not only to help us financially, but for its members to meet the youth in the ship. My son decided that he would do this even if he was the only one to show up. He dealt with the person running the dinner, he did try to contact Ship members to get them to come and he even negotiated the amount that the Ship would receive for its services. At Noon on Sunday, I got a call from one of the Sea Scouts that had gone to the Camp-o-ree with the Troop. They wanted to know if the fundraiser was still on and could they come. When the time came not only did they show up, but had another Sea Scout with them. CO was extremely happy with who showed up and the IH had a long talk with the Ship on what they have done over the winter and what they will be doing over the next couple of months. Even though we did not make a lot of money at this I was happy that at least some of the Ship members felt it was something they needed to do.  I was not looking forward to Dry Docking the Ship over this.

From the usscouts.org web site: http://usscouts.org/venturing/UniformingFAQ.html Venturing Uniforming Frequently Asked Questions(FAQ) 14. Can I wear my OA flap on my Venturing uniform (i.e. green shirt)? My crew wants to say I cant, since our female Venturers cant join the OA. Regardless of the fact that Venturers cannot be elected into the OA as Venturers (they can be elected in as Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts, or as adult leaders of Boy Scout Troops or Varsity Scout Teams if they meet the requirements for YOUTH membership), the OA flap may be worn on the green Venturing shirt. This is stated in the FAQ list at the National OA website. Personally, I feel that it is inappropriate for a crew to decide not to allow members to wear the flap. BSA Uniforming policies allow it, and thats that. Should a Venturer or Venturing adult choose not to wear the flap, that is their choice. But no one should be barred from wearing it. Also on the National Venturing Youth Cabinet website there are pictures of proper patch placement on the Green Venturing Shirt. They have a picture showing the right pocket with an OA falp. www.nationalventuringyouthcabinet.org/uniform.html (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

One of the requirements for a Palm is to be active in your troop and patrol for at least 3 months after becoming an Eagle Scout or after the award of your last Palm so unless it's been 3 months (for each Palm) since his EBOR to his ECOH he should ot be getting Plams along with his Eagle. We had a Scout who had 31 Merit Badges when he made Eagle but since he did it right before his 18th birthday he didn't have the time requirement met for the Palms. Merit Badges earned any time since becoming a Boy Scout may be used to meet this requirement.

Everything said here is exactly what I have thinking and feeling the last couple of weeks. "Dry docking" the Ship has been one thing I have been considering. How long to do so is the question? I really would like to stop activities until a fundraiser has been done but since the Regatta was expensive trip the Ship made little plans in June and I just comitted my last open weekend in June to go with my daughters GS Troops on their year-end trip. The main reason I started the Ship was to try and get my son interested in Scouting again. He had become bored with his WEBELOS 3 troop and they were offering nothing for him. In this aspect it has worked as last night he finished up the last MB he needed for Life and only needs 4 MB's (plus his POR and Project) for Eagle and has his sights set on making it. Stepping down as Skipper not only would fold the unit but it also would put an end to my son's Scouting carreer. He won'y go back to a Troop and I still haven't met another crew around here that is doing very much. I think that not only a discussion with the Scouts is in order but a talk with the CO. Also a semi-related question, when is a unit considered chartered? The Ship has paid its fees but at the last roundtable our new DE handed me a charter agreement and asked me to get it signed by my CO. He's new to Scouting and no idea what he should be doing. So are we considered "chartered" or not? I guess I have some tough decisions to make in the next couple of weeks.

For the last 2 months the Ship has scheduled a fundraiser only to be canceled at the last minute when everyone had something else come up and couldnt make it. It looks like this is going to happen again this month. A big difference between the last two months and this month is that this has been on the schedule since Feb. and the others where planned at the last minute. Back in Feb. when a budget was created, we discussed yearly dues to raise the funds. The youth decided that they would be willing to do fundraisers instead of dues. The fundraiser for this month is helping out at our COs monthly dinner. The Ship would be helping to serve and clean-up. As the food is catered there are no pots and pans and clean-up is clearing the tables, putting away the table and chairs and sweeping and mopping the floor. Canceling this will affect future fundraisers as our CO has said that they will pay the Ship to do this at their monthly dinners through Sept. (and may be willing to add more if this works out). It's becoming frustrating as I have kept my schedule open and given up my plans to be available only to have things canceled at the last minute. I also have a problem with the reason why they cant attend. The Ship decided to attend the regatta next weekend instead of the Council Camp-o-ree this weekend (doing both was not an option due to costs and getting adults to attend). It seems that a Troop has invited some the Ship members to tag along with them to the Council Camp-o-Ree which leaves only a couple of Sea Scouts even available to do the fundraiser. The Ship at this time has less than $10 in its account. I am not really sure what to do at this point. Any suggestions on this situation?

Deadlines mean little any more. I just got an e-mail about our council-wide camp-o-ree next weekend. They are expecting 3,000 to 4,000 Scouts to attend. The registration deadline was May 1. Only 300 registered by this deadline. This on par for almost every District and Council event we have. If our Districts/Council followed up on their dealines we would be canceling everything.

Last night when I got home there was an envelope on my door with this adults money. No phone call or e-mail to say she was dropping this off but it looks like we will be attending. Because we are a co-ed unit this second leader had to be a Mom (female over 21) for us to attend. I couldnt agree more with you Neilup Not only am I seeing this with the youth in the Ship but saw the same thing with the Parents in the Cub Pack. When I was CC we had a year end event with the Pack. Not a single person showed up to the planning meeting for this. Only 11 people signed up for this and the night before a family of 5 called and canceled. 35 people showed up and were pissed because nothing was planned. I see some of these people around school and they still blame the CM for this. I have had Sea Scouts refuse to put together a simple presentation for a meeting because they couldnt/wouldnt commit to being there even two weeks away. The Ship members want to do a trip next year. Ive let them know that one of them has to be willing to head this up and I would help them plan this trip none will do so. I cant even get them to commit to a time to go. About Eamonns 2nd e-mail: This sounds like my oldest son. Hes 18 and graduated from HS last year. He never liked Scouts much. He would go to a couple of meetings (Troop and Crew) and then not want to go anymore. He repeatedly said that he didnt want to go to a Community college, but sometime in his senior year he decided that it was too much work to keep his grades up and the local community college would do. He decided over the summer that he wanted to join the police force so he signed up for Criminal Justice classes. During his first semester he was convinced by a friend in the service that joining the Army was the fast-track to getting on the police force and decided to join the Army to become military police. After taking the entrance test he changed to military intelligence. He then had another meeting with the recruiter and came home saying he was going to learn how to shoot Patriot Missiles. Two weeks later he decided that he wasnt going to join, by then it was too late to register for classes and was looking into going to technical school to take Auto Mechanics. He currently is working part-time washing dishes at a retirement home and is looking for a full-time job. I know a couple of his friends that have done the same thing. Not every kid knows what they want to do after HS and I am hoping that one day he will finally decide what he wants to do.

I should add that this is not an inexpensive trip. The registration, berthing and food is $55. It's an almost 900 mile round-trip and at $3/gal the gas costs are going to somewhere around $25-$30 per person or more. We will have a meal on the way there and one on the way back to buy. and if it was under $20 I would just pay the fee and not worry but this in enough that I have to really think about paying it or not.

In no way did I mean that these e-mails were the only way that we asked for help. I privately asked her a few weeks ago if she could attend when I saw no parent stepping forward. I know she is not oblivious to the deadline as I had discussed with her, on more than one occasion, that if she couldnt make that she had to let me know as we needed to find a replacement or we couldnt attend. I think she is just expecting me to take care of it and will contact me when she gets around to it. I am trying to decide what is better for the Ship: 1) As we are less than 1 year old we are still in what I consider in a start-up phase. I think that if the ship attends it will be a great recruitment tool as very few units around here attend events like this. I also see that if the Scouts have a good enough time it may work to get them motivated to attend more activities. Or 2) Are the lessons the Ship will learn by canceling more important? Not only the youth but it looks like the parents and the other adults need to realize a few things. When the Ship decided to attend I let the Ship members know that is was their responsibility to secure leadership to attend. They have been reminded of this but it seems I have youth members who just want to sit back and wait for someone else to do it. One of the reasons I would have to come up with the funds is that both Ship fundraisers were canceled when at the last minute everyone said they couldnt make it so there are not enough funds in the Ship account to cover this Leaders expenses. I can easily make this trip happen as I am reasonably sure, if I have to, I can get a leader from another unit to go with us but I dont think its right to ask them to pay to go. I also think that if I keep bailing the Ship out they will keep expecting me to keep bailing them out but I also want to keep the Ship going and need new recruits to do so. It is hard to ask kids to join a program for fun and adventure when you are not doing things.

Ever since the Ship decided to go to this event back in Jan. there has been a reminder that at every meeting and get together they needed to find another leader to go. For the last month or so the Boatswain has sent out e-mails saying that we needed another leader to attend or this was going to be canceled. It just seems I have a group of youth that are "siting back and waiting for someone else to do it". One problem I am now facing is that a couple of weeks ago an adult has said they will go. I have two members of our CO, with no kids in the Ship, which are registered leaders. My son saw her last weekend and she said that she was going. I received an e-mail from her on Sunday stating she was going and the other CO member wanted to attend also. But since everyone waited until the last minute to get their money in if I dont get the money and the forms into the mail by tomorrow we will miss the deadline for signup. I know that all the ship members (even my son) have actually gone out and worked odd jobs to pay for the trip. I dont think I have ever been in a unit where there wasnt at least one kid whos parents paid for everything. I know I shouldnt be playing bank but canceling because one adult cant get their money in on time feels like I am punishing the Scouts for someone that didnt live up to their promise.

You can put me in the, been there, done this category. I dont know how many hours I spent as a CC tracking down registration money. The frustrating thing was even after making contact most wouldnt give an answer either way and in almost all the cases they ended up dropping anyway. Now after all the newsletters, e-mails and announcements at meetings, if I dont hear from them they are dropped from the roster. Im going through this right now over the Memorial Day Regatta. Its not the Sea Scouts that havent paid its the other adults that have said they are going. I am the only adult that has paid for the trip. With the registration deadline on Monday I need to get everything in the mail by tomorrow if we are going to attend. I am trying to decide to pay for another adult (out of my own pocket) and hope that one of them comes forward to attend, find another adult from another unit that can go or cancel.

Just got back from our Training weekend and I had, what seems to becoming a tradition between another staffer and myself, a discussion about the Patrol Method. This time it was about Troops that cook and eat meals as a Troop. He thought that in any case that a Troop that does this is not using the Patrol Method. I disagreed with this as I know of a Troop that does this but I think they use the Patrol Method. This Troop is large (~80 scouts). PLC decides the menu for the whole troop. The Troop has a Gubmaster that is in charge of buying the food for the whole Troop. Duty roster is done by the PLC, on a patrol basis, with things like cooking assigned to a whole patrol or multiple patrols, same with other duties on Troop activities. One of things the other staffer didnt like about this setup is that some patrols may not have duties to perform at every meal, but this may happen in a large patrol where not every Scout may have a job at every meal. Is this tweak the Patrol Method?

I think this is a good question. I think that the hardest thing about doing this will be coming up with activities that will interest all the different types of crews. I asked my son, who is in Sea Scouts, these questions. His answer to where: Orlando, FL. He thought there would be enough different things to do in the area that would appeal to all the different types of crews. He also thought a concert by a well known act should be done.

Yes, the first Bronze award counts towards the Gold Award. One of the requirements to earn the Gold Award is to earn any one of the Bronze Award, so it is not double dipping. To simplify these awards: A Venturer would earn a Bronze Award Gold Award = Bronze + other requirements Silver Award = Gold Award + other requirements To earn the Silver award a Venturer would only have to earn one Bronze Award. They can also use this same Bronze award towards a higher award. So, if a venturer earns the Outdoor Bronze it can be used for both the Gold Award and the Ranger Award.(This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

Im not sure what you mean by: Does this mean earn an additional Bronze Award after the first one for each of the next two ranks, or does the first one count for the next two? In Venturing there are not ranks like in the Boy Scouts. Sea Scouts is a separate program that does have ranks (Apprentice, Ordinary, Able, Quartermaster). For the Silver award you first have to earn the Gold Award in which a Venturer has to earn one of the bronze awards (Arts and Hobbies, Outdoor, Sea Scouting (same as Ordinary Rank), Sports, or Religious Life). You do not have to earn another Bronze award for the Silver award. There are more advanced awards that can be earned above the Bronze Awards: Outdoor Bronze is half the Ranger Award Sea Scouting Bronze is half the Quartermaster Award Sports Bronze is half the Quest Award Religious Life Bronze is half the Trust Award You can find the requirements for these awards at: http://www.scouting.org/venturing/awards

As a Sea Scout Skipper I would have no problem excepting things like BSA Lifeguard, CPR, SCUBA and First Aid Certification earned with a Troop towards Venturing/Sea Scout advancement and dont expect a Scout to do these twice. Eagle Service projects CAN NOT be used towards Venturing awards or the Sea Scout Quartermaster master award nor can service projects for these awards be used as an Eagle Service project. A separate service project must be completed for each of these awards. As to requirements that can be used towards both I am evaluating these on an individual basis depending on the Scout and/or the requirement. An example is the requirement for Ordinary rank in Sea Scouts: -Meet the requirements for the Swimming merit badge. A Sea Scout that earned Swimming Merit Badge 3 years ago at summer camp with a Troop is going to have to show to myself (or an approved Consultant) that they can redo the requirements before I am going say that they have meet this. Im doing the same with the swimming requirement for Apprentice (1st Class swimming requirement). I have to witness every Sea Scout and Adult Leader pass the swimmers test to sail this summer even if they did this at summer camp last year. One of the youth instructors I just had helping to teach BSA Lifeguard has expressed interested in joining the Ship. I am not going to ask him to redo the swimming requirement. Even though I didnt see him do the swimmers test I am confident that he meets this requirement. As to the official response to: Our Scoutmaster feels that if they earn credit through the crew it does not count towards any troop merit badge. An SM has no say in what can and can not be used towards Merit Badge requirements. This is up to the MBC to decide. I find this a good reason for a Scout to use a MBC not associated with the troop and let them decide if the activities done in the Crew can be used towards the MB. Unless the SM is also the Crew Advisor I dont see how they can enforce this with a Venturing Crew.

A couple of years ago I paid $3.97 for a compass at Walmart. I have no idea of the brand but I know Walmart stills carries them (not sure about the price) So far it's held up with limited use. It's nothing fancy and works fine but it's not a toy either. Something along these lines will work fine for WEBELOS. Someone told me that about the only difference between a cheap compass(not the toy kind) and an expensive compass is how fast it will point to north.

Our WLOT training runs from Saturday morning to Sunday at noon. We are running this along side SM Specfic/Basic Outdoor Skill Training. On Saturday they are holding Cub Scout Resident Camp Open House. Some of the sessions are combined such as Knots, Foil Dinners and the Campfire. Doing this way allows us to share QM's and other area experts. I am doing two activity pins and can help with one of the other programs if needed. I was told that after this weekend the training staff will be evaluating to keep the combined sessions or go back to having this on its own weekend. In looking at the activity pin requirement changes on usscouts.org our CD gave us copies from an older (pre-2003) Programs helps so the "new" requirements are not that new.

My Sea Scout contacts don't know about this award either. I am currently taking BSA Lifeguard and none of the instructors had heard of it. I have to say that this was much easier when I was 14 than doing it at close to 50. It is being taught by the same person I took Swimming and Lifesaving MB's when I was a Scout back in the early 70's. I'll have to see how good our new DE is, with no scouting background and see what he can find any requirements.

I am helping out with WLOT next weekend and just got an e-mail saying there are new WEBELOS activity pin requirements. The CD is trying to get copies for these to the staff but I was wondering if anyone knows if there is a Web site with the new requirements so I can get these to review now rather than waiting for him to mail these to me. Thanks