Eagle94-A1

FYI these are the types of uniforms in national BSA literature I've read about. Professional Uniform, and yes I wore my Eagle tie tac and some type of BSA lapel pin with it. Field Uniform depending upon program it can be Boy Scout, one of the 3 Sea Scout or 4 Sea Scout leader uniforms, Cub Scout, or Venturing uniform. Some people call the Class A Activity uniform. Currently the field uniform with a Scouting T-shirt or polo. From 1989- approx 1999, was khaki shorts with either a tan, red or maroon polo shirt. Sometimes called a Class B. Camp Uniform, This is in CS Day Camp NCS literature. Basically it's a CSDC shirt. Local Uniforms i've seen include Aquatics Staff, T-shirt and swim trunks. BSA did come out wiht official swim trunks at one time, and that camp used those once they came out. Other uniform was the COPE uniform. That one consisted of BDU trousers, and initially camp staff t-shirt, but when we got them, the COPE course t-shirt instead. Also included harness and brain bucket.

Part of the issue is not understanding boy lead. Especially parents. But the biggest challenge is CS leaders. You spend X number of years as a CS leader being trained to run meetings, trips, etc, Then become a BS leader and have to sit on your hands and let them do it. Very hard to transition. Or as Master Yoda would say, "you must unlearn what you have learned."

Yes the trasnistion from CS leader to BS leader is VERY HARD, even for those of us who know better. Why I kinda harp on the balencing between guiding and mentoring vs taking over. I did the taking over once before, way back when I was a brand new ASM. I was acting more like the SPL, and some of my friends who were youth started getting ticked off. Other leaders had to have a cup of coffee and worked with me. As for the questions, most are standard with me. The only coaching I do prior to a BOR is to tell them to relax, think, and take it easy. As an FYI Patrol meetings and other DAY (emphasis) activities do not require adults. Only overnight activities.

1) Please keep resposnes coming. I'm one of those who are not quick-witted when a new challenge comes about and need to think on it. So this forum is helping in planning. 2) What are some ways to not insult any of the current leadership when I present the ideas to improve the troop? Again the SM has done a fantastic job holding the troop together and keeping them active despite his health and lack of consistant adult help. My other friend who is suppose to take over has also done a great job inspiring the troop and workig with them when he could. After all, he was the one that inspired and motivated them to go to Philmont. I've briefly talked to the SM about taking over if need be. He doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Only comment was "I still want to be active." I responded "Yes, you're a valuable resource, but I don't want you to feel obligated to do everything. I am trying to meet with my friend to talk person to person with him about it before meeting the CC this Monday. But it's going to be a challenge since he gets married in 9 days, then on a Honeymoon. Yep, the CC is attending the Monday meeting to do 4 BORs. I was informed that I was still listed as a MC on the charter and that I need to be there to sit on 3 of them (Oldest is one of them!). So I am going to bring it up to him.

Don't go there. Anyone remember the official OA boxers at NOAC one year? Then again, I wish I had gotten the OA "Toothpick Holder" when I had the chance. Alas, they sold out by the time I got to the trading post.

You do things, sometimes repeat them adding to the expereince, as time contraints allow.

With the exception of one incident I was involved in, outside of SMCs I didn't have much interaction with the SM until I was ASPL. And that was only becasue the SPL wasn't there and I was in charge. But he was a hiker and camper. And we were a hiking and camping troop. After I turned 18, we got a new SM. Still into hiking and camping. But loved boating since he was a Sea Scout Quartermaster, and a nautical engineer. You guessed it, once summer hit, lots of fun on the water. Yep, they were good rolemodels who I want to emmulate.

I have to ditto cardboard box ovens. I'd bake cookies at the end of the year for my den with one. Not LNT friendly, but AWESOME, is "Turkey in the Hole." dig a 6' hole, build a small bonfire, and let it get to coals. While that is going on, take your turkey, insert a bag of ice in it. Take several stick of butter to the turkey and add any spices. Wrap the turkey in 3 layers of foil going in different directions. Place turkey in the hole, cover in coals, then cover with dirt. Wait x number of hours , and when ready you will have a turky that fall off the bones. HMMMM maybe the kids will let me use one of their foxholes this Thanksgiving?

In my expereince, it's usally the older Scouts who have been around a while, know each other really well, etc etc, that can really get away with no duty roster. Some mixed aged patrols can do it, some can't. NSPs gotta have it, otherwise their is arguing, bickering, and nothing gets done. The leaders in my troop do this. each one picks a meal. we buy everything needed for it. And everyone chips in for KP. Except the last campout I went on. The idiot who was suppose to cook breakfast didn't wake up on time to do it. Used getting back from the hosptial at 5:00AM as an excuse for oversleeping. Quazse, Traditionally each meal had different folks cooking them. Samples from the past showed that, and that is how it was taught at Brownsea 22, JLTC, and the old SM Fundamentals.. Looks like that is out now. Looking at the 2016 requirements, Scouts need to cook three meals on a single camp out still. As for IOLS, oneof the things I HATE WITH A PASSION (emphasis) about the syllabus is the idea of signing off a card when they do something, "just like the Scouts." As for Cooking MB, I guess those meals he has already done can go towards that instead of First Class since he got a partial in it.

Sorry, didn't read the Tenderfoot and Second Class requirements.

Yep IMHO, the requirement as written is not conducive to the patrol method and reeks of "one and done," as if the Scout only needs to do cooking on one campout. That's ok, my son can deal with it. He's got 15 weekend trips under his belt so far, loves camping, and can deal with this. His advancement, his responsibility. Definately something the PLC needs to be aware of as it may change how the patrols have to do things. Old school leaders teaching old school methods. Also may present some challenges for those going to Philmont. Luckily we have approx. 7 - 8 trips between now and when they leave for them to meet the requirement as stated. On a personal note, why the heck didn't national incorporate this new method in the ITOLS syllabus? And I love how in the BSHB they talk about folks doing the same thing for the entire weekend trip, but the sample Duty Roster is the traditional rotation method. Thanks folks for the answers.

No I haven't, I suggested he go directly to the SM. The reason for that is at the moment, and I stress at the moment, only the adults sign off on requirements. Reason for that is rank. His PL and another are "Scout," and the 3rd PL is Tenderfoot. I personally am hopiong to change that in the near future. EDITED: I'm one of those who think PLs should sign off on on the T-2-1 Requirements that they themsleves have mastered as evidenced by them holding that the rank they are signing off on. I also think Scouts should be able to sit on BORs for T-2-1 like they use to in the 1972-1989 period. One of the very few things I like about the Improved Scouting Program.

Ok this question came about last night becasue of a conversation I had with Oldest. While it affects him immediately, I see this affecting pretty much everyone but 4 people in the troop. I haven't talked to my troop's leadership about it yet, and neither has he. But I think I know what the SM will tell him, and know that on this board we have a good grasp on things. Requirement 4E for First Class states: On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in requirement 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup. The patrols use duty rosters and rotate the duties for each meal, so one person normally doesn't cook three meals on a camp out, at the most 2. Only time we ever had 1 person cooking every meal was the Scout, who wants to be chef, was working with the NSP on their first camp out. Has been with his patrol ever since. My thinking is that the 3 First Class Scouts we had actually used multiple camp outs to get the three meals in. I don't have a problem with Scouts taking multiple camp outs to meet this requirement since they are using the Patrol Method, but what are your thoughts?

SO VERY TRUE! ( Emphasis, OK maybe a little shouting in joy )

How often does your den camp? You could plan another trip for the next camp out. Also under cast iron chef, the meal planning can be for family or den. Personally I like den. model as it can come as a shock for new Boy Scouts doing shopping for the first time. In fact, i discovered parents doing the shopping instead of the Scouts and they tend to go overbudget, buy more than they need, and buy the wrong stuff. Seen this multiple times after the fact. True story, my son's patrol has a kitty as a result of them doing a budget. And shopping by themselves. Whatever is left over fom shopping goes into the kitty. They have had the camp fee for one trip paid out of it, had a Cook Out patrol meeting, etc. The one time a parent did the shopping, they bought too much stuff and went over budget.

This conversation reminds me of when I was working for National Supply immediately after 9-11-01. Manager, who wear the professional uniform, gave out American Flag lapel pins for the staff to wear. She looked at me with horror and disgust when i told her I didn't need it. She said "WHAT!?!?!?!" Pointing to my right sleeve I told her, "Already have one." Now I am a member of the "uniform police." There may be a pin I wear for a meeting or special event that isn't authorized. Like others, it is usually something that someone has given me. But I don't wear it all the time. Does anyone still wear hatpins? I remember back in the day seeing folks with hats full of them. Grant you it was authorized only for jambos, but still saw it a lot.

Is your local Scout Shop owned by the council, or by National Supply? If the folks working there are in either the professional uniform or a field uniform with gold loops, they are national run. Ask them to call around to other shops and see what they can get. Another thing is to talk to other packs in the areas and see if they have any leftovers. good luck.

Because of the way the LDS program works, Webelos and AOL will need to remain together and doable within a year. As for the 2 Duty to God requirements, no where in the book that I've read so far says Webelos Duty to God requirement must be earned in 4th grade and the AOL Duty to God requirement can only be earned in 5th grade. Again, the way the LDS program works, they must work on both awards at the same time.

Why I always say a sign of a good troop is the number of older Scouts who are still active, especially is they are already Eagle and don't have that as an incentive to stick around. I know I stuck around after turning 18. I had friends in college who were active whenever they could with the troop.

When I not chilling out in an arm immobilzer and doing "Pain and Torture," I'm a medical librarian at a small rural hospital.

Please keep posting comments and ideas please. More tools in my arsenal, the better job I can do. Stosh mentions PLs and giving them responsibility. One responsibility I want to give them is the ability to sign off T-2-1 Requirements up to their own rank. Challenge at the moment is that all of the PLs are Scout. The troop has been more focused on the "Outing" and less so on advancement. We have guys in the troop 2, 3 years, and are still Scout, even after going to summer camp and being active. Troop has gotten into "advancement mode" due to Philmont. Funny thing is with the exception of the 30 days of exercises and showing improvement, Most of the stuff up to First Class has been done for some of these folks. One PL is going for Second Class and First Class BOR next week. Another is going for Tenderfoot and Second Class. So I see this happening finally. But I admit I have mixed emotions on this. Long story short, instead of preparing for camporee, we are focusing on T-2-1 requirements this month. SPL had Scouts buddy up and working on advancement. One of the PLs was having challenges. Part of me wonders will he be able to do the job? Part of me wonders is it because the SPL sprung it on him at the last minute? On a positive note, this is one of the Scouts who, when asked if he thought he met the mile long compass course requirement a few months back, said no he and the others needed more practice. You don't know how proud I was of the group when they said that. In regards to youth led troop being more organized, I was fortunate to be in an established youth-led troop. By established I mean we had been around for 20+ years, and had an older scout patrol, called the Leadership Corps at the time,and they ran things. Mostly 14 - 17 year olds who had "been there, done that, got the patch," and had the ability to control teh behavior of everyone with 6 words, " You're wasting your game time, gentlemen." I think one reason why we were able to keep our guys active until 18, and even beyond as ASMs, was becasue the adults gave us ownership of the troop.

I admit I have not looked at all the details. But from the literature it takes 14 months to get both the Webelos Badge, and AOL Badge. I'd focus on the Webelos Badge, then as soon as they finish, start working on AOL. Unless you are LDS, then I would either work on both at the same time, or skip Webelos and go directly to AOL. IMHO the powers that be didn't really think through the Webelos program full when they came up with it. I bet we see some updates in the years to come.

Correct. Liek everyone is saying. baby steps.

Stosh, Sorry about the confusion. The meds I'm back on are messing up my cognative ability. Can't wait to be off them for that aspect. But it's great having NO pain whatsoever.

Thankfully summer camp is taken care of. Older Scouts are going to Philmont, the rest of the Scouts are going to a summer camp they never have been to before: our council's camp. On a positive note, SPL is starting to take charge. Slowly but surely.