Eagle94-A1

One of our ASMs regularly conceal carries to meetings and on a few camp outs. He's also been known to show up in the CSI van to meetings and camp outs, and leave early when the citizens of our city do not behave. On those occasions, I give him the benefit of the doubt for not wearing his Scout uniform and shows up in his work uniform.

Don't go there. Hamas and ISIS have youth programs modeled off of Scouting. Also heard from a friend about one Scout getting ticked off and threatened to have his jihadi cousins blew up the CO. That threat was reported to authorities.

Thread reminds me of an incident a few years back. I had to make a trip with expected bad weather and one of the interstates closed for a long section due to rock slides. I had the alternate route planned, and a back up route planned in case the snowstorm hit earlier. I got to the funeral OK, but decided to leave early to avoid the snowstorm. Well, my father, sister, and brother were freaking out because I was leaving early to take the backup route without a GPS unit. They could not understand how I could plan a way home with only a map. Now here is where it gets funny. Previously I rode with sis and her GPS, and road consruction threw both the unit and my sister off. I had to piont out the detour signs after several attempts to follow TomTom. Well on the way home, there was a major accident that shut down the road I needed to take. I bet if I only had TomTom, I'd still be stuck. I was able to pull intoa parkinglot, get my bearings, and use the map I had to create Plan D and get home safely.

What you suggest is one option. But if your council does not have the mandatory "Trained" requirement, mine is still phasing it in, then he would be good to go with just YPT. IF your council is one with the mandatory training, then get him registered as UNIT SCOUTER RESERVE (92U is the code). That position was created specifically for 18-20 year olds who want to be active, but cannot get all of the training yet, and are too young to be committee members.

As someone who has been in similar shoes, i.e. young family and OA chapter advisory, training chair, etc with a young family, I can tell you it's doable, BUT you must have a VERY supportive wife. One thing that helped me out was that for the first 4 years I was a parent, I was in grad school. Since my classes were at night, I was a stay at home dad. So I was able to be with the kids for a lot of the time. Doesn't mean SWMBO and I dad I disagreements and arguments over my involvement in Scouting. Especially when the third one showed up, and I finally finished grad school and was working full time. Upon reflection, approx. 90% of the arguments the wife and I have had involved Scouting. This is something to think about. Me personally, I'm addicted to Scouting. I tried twice to step away from Scouting. First time lasted about 4 months. Only lasted that long because the job was working with "hoods in da woods." Second time lasted about 1.5 weeks. Good luck.

We, meaning the youth, didn't allow for switching patrols or PLs until the 6 months were up. Reason for that was to emphasize that decisions do have consequences. If you switch patrols, you need to adapt to that patrol's standards. If you elect a PL that ends up lousy, you need to live with the consequences until their term of office is over. Funny thing is that the PLs usually did outstanding jobs and had minor complaints. We had issues with a few SPLs, and teh ASPL either picked up the slack, or took over for the remaining term

@@blw2 , For the most part, the only time people switched patrols were A) when we created the NSP in 1986, and I left my patrol to form a 3rd patrol and B) when someone moved up to the Leadership Corps. When we gave up on the NSP stuff, 2 friends of mine and some of the others in my patrol switch over. Otherwise i cannot remember anyone switching from one patrol to another. Part of that may have been patrol spirit and esprit de corps. The two original patrol flags, Hawks and Eagles, were still in use when I joined the troop. Every patrol ribbon the patrol ever earned were still on those flags, it was a very big deal when I left and "resurrected" the Owls. After 2 months, we wanted to switch names, and were told we could do it, but we would have to start all over in regards to flag, ribbons, history etc. Only Owl Patrol items were kept were the cooking and camping equipment. Unfortunately when we switched to Ravens, the Owl flag and ribbons were retired and put back into storage. When our storage shed developed leaks destroying a bunch a gear, the Owl Patrol flag was part of equipment destroyed. @@Stosh , Why 6 months, I haven't the foggiest idea. It was like that before I joined the troop, and continued after I left. We'd do SPL elections, then move folks to LC if needed, then allow folks to switch patrol if they wanted, then have PL elections. PLs tended to keep getting reelected until they moved up to the LC. friend of mine were PLS for 18 months straight. Now SPL was a different story. Most wouldnot run for reelection. Usually school played a factor in that decision. Again there were two guys who alternated being SPL for 6 month periods for 2 years. One had a busy fall semester with school and would not run for election in the fall, the other was busy in the spring and would not run then. It worked for us.

Stosh, The NSP. stuff was before it bbecame offiicial. Basically we were part ofthe guinea pigs. Yes, it was 100% adult instttgated as thee SM was asked to try somehing new. After a year, we went bac. As for voting in folks into the LC, very informal process. Requirements were First Class and have been a PL. After SPL election, incoming SPL would talk to LC about who wanted what positions, and who we thought should move up from the regular patrol and be given a troop level position. I guess a better choice of words would be consensus among the ccurrent LC Mmembers..Most of the time, everyone had a specified POR, i.e. QM, Instructor, etc. But there were times when someone ad been in the LC, and not given a POR. Usually someone in HS who could not make every meeting or trip due to school. But when they were at the meetng or trip, they were helping out on the troop level. I know two guys who alternated in one POR for 2 years. One couuld do the jobb in the. Fall, but not spring, and vice versa. So the one not inne the POR hhelped thheother out when they could.

Growing up, every 6 months we had the opportunity to switch patrol and elect new PLs. It was the Scout's choice. Exception to that was the following: 1) When we needed a third patrol and I was appointed PL. This was when we were trying the NSP thing before it become BSA policy. Didn't work and eventually two guys from other patrols migrated over and we became the 3rd mixed aged patrol 2)When someone got elected into the Leadership Corps. Again the LC members voted on who would join them. Now SPL would assign Webelos who visited to a patrol to work with for the meeting and the camp out. Usually when they joined the troop they went to that patrol. I can't recall anyone wanting to join a different patrol, but my brain has been frozen, so my memory may be wrong.

Thanks, definite birthing pains. IMHO the troop FINALLY has someone with knowledge, skills and abilities to get the job done as SPL. Not dismissing the KSA's of the previous SPLs. But the troop has had to grow their own older scouts, and they are starting to take the reins instead of the adults doing everything. As for is he helping his Scouts. YES to the best of his ability. Is he helping his PLs? Depends upon your point of view. Despite him not working with the NSPL, the SPL is relying on the TG to help the NSPL. In all honesty I don't think the troop has any expectations or goals except monthly camping activities save January ( annual lock in month) and doing a HA trip every three years (one year to recuperate, and two years to fundraise and prepare). For 2019, they have a lot of options, including WSJ. (an aside, does the FL Sea base still have the program where you can charter the vessel, and if you have someone with a USCG license, they are counted as crew and you get a discounted charter rate?) Now I admit do have some things I'ld like to do. #1 being able to have ALL ( emphasis) leaders, sit down, and stay out of the way of the Scouts, drinking coffee and playing card games.

One way we did it was at the Webelos troop visit, the SPL assigned the Webelos to the dens. They learned some of the skills for the Webelos Overnighter weekend at the meeting. The patrol they were assigned to was the patrol they would camp with. Within the patrol, the PL assigned one of the Scouts to work with the Webelos and be his buddy. It worked well, and when they Crossed Over, they usually went into the patrol with their buddy from the overnighter.

I've seen everything from the presentation kit only Eagle Knife to NESA lifetime memberships. One of my friends had a chartered helicopter flight for him and the other Eagles in his troop as they do only 1 ECOH per year, and they make it a doozy. In my troop, we got the presentation kit, COH, name on a plaque, and our name and year burnt onto a table decoration for future troop COHs. I remember moving around my table decoration a few times to "reserve my spot. One thing I received, and this was a gift from the SM, was an Eagle pendant. I personally have given out copies of the BSA's first edition handbook.

As far as I know Venture patrols still exist as they still sell the VENTURE strip. Way we worked it in my old troop was basically a continuation of the Leadership Corps, in fact we didn't switch the name to Venture crew until after i turned an adult, circa 1993 or thereabouts, because we had a stack LC patches and finished up our supply of them before switching. Way it worked for us was that the LC were the older Scouts who had expereince as PLs, were First Class or higher, and had troop level responsibilities. While we had designated Instructors, everyone did their share of teaching and mentoring. Plus we were the ones running the interpatrol competitions. And you are 110% correct, you don't have older Scouts, you are stuck on a new scout program. I think that is part of the problem with my current troop, and am hoping Philmont will fix it after the group comes back. As for the new parent not getting it, you are so spot on. I hated interfering adults as a youth, and am doing my darnedest to not interfere now. And I am trying to get the new parents out of Cub Scout mode. In regards to camp family nights, Most camps I've been to as an adult have family night on Friday now, and entire troops will leave Friday night after the campfire. Blew my mind when 1/2 my troop left Friday.

If it seems as if I'm critical of the SPL, I'm not. Far from it as I think he is doing great job for the first time. He took initiative. He planned it. He worked his people. And like any first time leader, mistakes were made. And I am hoping everyone concerned, grows from it. Especially some of the adults. I am hoping and praying that some of the adults will back off and let them Scouts make their mistakes and learn form them. ADDED DANG just reread what I wrote and you're right, the bulk seems negative. i was trying to give a summary of the meeting, what could be improved, and what went really well. I do not like ending things on a negative note, and try to end reflections on a positive note. Want to emphasize the following. 1) I think the youth made a giant step forward. I hope it continues. 2) I think some of the worse offenders as adults are slowly seeing the light.

Update from the meeting this week. SPL does need to work on communication and insuring instructors know in advance what they are doing and/or giving them a chance to practice. Also needs to make sure they have supplies Instructor(s) needs to know the skills, practice before hand, and learn how to use their resources. Adults need to learn to butt out of the process, especially if they do not know the skills. What do I mean? SPL talked to most of the folks instructing at the Christmas Party, but not everyone. Didn't follow through to remind them or contact those not at the party. Nor did he have all the equipment. I admit, I brought supplies "just in case." He needs to make sure to contact everyone and plan, plan, plan. Something I need to talk to him about. Some of the instructors he did talk to, didn't practice ahead of time. So instead of helping out with the other skills, they were on the side practicing what they were suppose to teach. So instead of the older Scouts working one-on-one or two-on-one with the new Scouts, it was 1 person working with the new Scouts. AND since this was his first time teaching, it was challenging. Plus some of the Scouts who knew what was being taught, because they were not told to help their buddies, did the skill and waited. As for adults, we do need to butt out. Especially those who don't know the skill. We had 2 recently moved up CS leaders trying to teach knots using smart phone apps. I admit eventually jumping in after seeing the older scouts working on their stuff and not working with the younger ones, and the NSP folks getting frustrated. TG cannot do it all by himself. And those that know haven't learned to take initiative. So what was so positive about the "organized chaos" and adult involvement? 1) This was the first time the youth did all the planning and organizing on their own? Yes, they received a copy of the Troop Planning Features from me, but the SPL appointed the instructors, was responsible for planning, etc. For me this is a step in the right direction. 2) For the most part, the adults realized that they are jumping in too much now. We were talking about the issue of the NSP, and several agree, including the possible new SM, that we need to move away from the NSP and go "old school" with mixed aged patrols so that no one Scout is responsible for working with all the new Scouts. I did have to tell the two new leaders that we need to wait until the next patrol elections to make changes instead of the adults jumping in and making the changes for the Scouts. We need to let them figure it out.

Before BSA produced a spiral bound book, a friend of mine took his to some printing shop where they cut the perfect bound book and turned it into a spiral bound book. When the first spiral bound book came out, he didn't like the quality nor the cost, and repeated the above. He said it was better quality and cheaper.

As a former pro and long time volunteer, I've seen good DEs, and I have seen bad ones. I've seen some coast, and I seen some burn out with exhaustion. I've seen some that had "leverage" over the upper management and didn't have to lift a finger to succeed, and some were so hounded by the upper management, that they worked so much that their marriage, and even health failed them. And of course I've seen a bunch leave in frustration and disillusionment.

My thoughts. 1) I think the parents do not understand the process and need to be registered. The MB process is a chance for the Scout to show interest without parental involvement. It is also suppose to allow him initiative. 2) Me personally, I will NOT sign off on any of my son's advancement UNLESS there is no other registered MBC in the district, and even then I will have another adult look at the stuff and verify that he is actually doing it. We had an issue a while back in my council with one grandfather, father, and mother registering to be MBCs in addition to their unit roles of IR/CC, SM, and ASM. They were not doing a proper job, and no one on the district or council level was aware of the problems until the grandson/son went for his Eagle BOR. He didn't do the work. An appeal went to national, was granted I his favor with the comment you don't penalize the Scout for adult mistakes, and the entire district advancement committee resigned in protest. Another issue, and one I've known since Cub Scouts, is that tend to expect more out of my son than others. So I'd rather he go elsewhere to get an unbiased MBC. 3) In the units I've been in, the troop had policies that parents do not sign off on advancement UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (emphasis). Example of that was one Nuclear Science MBC in the entire council, so son and a few friends worked on it with dad the MBC.

BLW2, The Leadership Corps was what the Venture crew (not Venturing Crew), now called a Venture patrol, was called back in my day. usually it was the older Scouts who had troop level positions: QM, Librarian, Instructor, etc. Lots of different ways to work it, but here is how it worked in my troop. If I can find the Leadership Corps book I'll post some official stuff. , 1. Had to be First Class or above, a PL for at least 6 months (most were a PL for year or longer), and be elected by existing members of the LC to be a member. 2. ASPL was the PL of the LC since he is responsible for supervising the troop appointed positions. 3. Everyone had a role to play, even if they didn't have a formal POR as being in the LC was a POR from 72-89. 4. We ran the interpatrol activities for the troop. 5. We would occasionally did our own activities. Best example would be the Vicksburg Military Park trails. Instead of the 14 mile road trip, we would do the 12 mile as the crow flies cross country orienteering trek, or if that was closed do the 14 and 7 mile road trips. Rest of the troop did the 14 miler.

OK I'm back 3) Since all the Varsity Teams I've seen have been LDS, yes I've heard on non-LDS teams but have not seen them, I think the reason for the switch from Leadership Corps to Venture crew, as well as the creation of the high adventure activity pins for wear on the Varsity/Venture V Award, was created based upon LDS units using Varsity Teams.

The concept of the New Scout Patrol and Troop Guide position came out officially in August 1989 as part of the OPERATION FIRST CLASS Program. National did some research saying that Scouts who get First Class within a year tend to stay in Scouting longer, and looked at some things to use to retain membership. Hence Operation First Class. The New Scout patrol, Troop Guide, renaming the Leadership Corps the Venture crew, etc as well as doing away with time requirements between T-2-1 ranks were all party of that process. My thoughts; 1) While the report does show a correlation between advancement and retention, it did not show, nor even address, an active program. In my expereince, a 'hiking and camping troop" will retain Scouts. 2) I'm willing to bet that the LDS units separation of their 11 year olds from the rest of the troop not only heavily influenced the concept of NSPs, but may have skewed some of the advancement data. Seems as if LDS units have had a focus on advancement over program since the 11 years olds are limited to 3 camp outs/year. In retrospect, I think the LDS units may be one reason why advancement may have been used as a measurement for retention instead of programming. More later

My troop, stressing troop, growing up had a policy of anyone with 7 or more MBs could wear a sash. I think it came from the long sleeve shirt policy. HOWEVER none of us ever wore long sleeve shirts. Otherwise ANYONE can wear a MB sash.

Hedgehog, ROTFLMBO! The duty roster story reminded me of one of the biggest issues. Now the folks in the NSP have been in the troop anywhere from 6-8 months, with one guy coming aboard last December. So they have some camping experience and know why a duty roster is important. Also their troop guide was a PL, so he knows as well. WWWWEEEEELLLLL the duty roster was just a list of working pairs with no meals or duties listed. Just a bunch of names on a grid. And no one but the TG had a copy of it, and it was in a book. Grant you I had to intervene, because an argument was going on and nothing was getting done. Asking questions was the way to get them to realize how they can imporve the process. For got to add, the only expectation was camp to be broken by a certain time and give them the chance to goof off before leaving. Took over 4 hours to cook, clean, and break camp. One more update. Talking to oldest about the situation and asked his opinion on some things. Asked what he thought of splitting up the mixed age patrol and having the NSP divide up in May when we do elections. Said it it wouldn't work as there are some issues between the two patrols. Asked for his idea, and he said just add new scouts to the existing patrols and divide the patrols when we need to.

Yep, I'm using my experiences as a guide. As to using BP's and GBB's literature, if you read it does it say anywhere about boys joining as an entire den at one time? I don't think you will find one as that concept is a relatively new one. It used to be boys joined Boy Scouts as soon as they turned 12, then it was dropped to 11. I don't know when the concept of entire dens crossing over at one time came out, but I know it wasn't a big deal like it is today in the early 80s. As Eagledad said, dividing up the new Scouts had some benefits. 1) No single patrol is at a disadvantage. Let's face it during any type of competition, the NSP will have a big disadvantage in regards to skills. Venture patrol runs the competition and acts as judges, all the other patrols compete on an even keel with a mixture of experienced and new Scouts. 2) One Scout alone cannot teach a patrol of new Scouts. This is not only based upon my experience as the "troop guide" ( I was appointed the PL of the NSP back in the day), but also on my observations and experiences as an adult. I remember being overwhelmed at times as a youth, and I have observed either more older Scouts having to get involved, the troop guide being overwhelmed, or worst adults getting involved. The last campout is the best example. TG was working so hard trying to supervise dinner and KP, that the patrol campfire was neglected. No campfire for them. Then the next morning, again TG was focused on dealing with cooking and KP issues that striking tents was not done as the PL had no experience and was clueless as to what needed to be done. Unfortunately adults got involved. In a mixed aged patrol, experienced Scouts buddy up with new Scouts to do the various jobs, insuring that things get done. PL usually is an experienced Scout who has some knowledge, skills, and abilities to get jobs done without adults getting involved. 3) Gives the experienced Scouts a taste of teaching, leading, and ownership. THEY are responsible for training the next group of Scouts in the troop. That mentorship is a great bond building tool. I know I' m still in contact with my PL, and SPLs from my old troop to this day.