Eagle94-A1

Only if you stay with in council. Unless things have changed, if you move to a different council, you get a new ID number, and you got to resubmit records. One of the biggest P.I.T.B.s when I moved 5 times in 7 years, was having to resubmit copies of everything.

BLW, Prior to 1989, the only types of patrols were the "Traditional" or mixed-aged patrol, and an older Scout patrol. The older Scout patrol has gone through various changes, both in program and name. The idea of the traditional or mixed aged patrol was two fold: first was to get a bunch of buddies together with similar intersts. But the second was to get Scouts of different abilities and expereince working together. Older Scouts in the patrol helped the younger scouts. The older Scouts in the patrol were the ones who taught vartious scoutcraft skills, in my expereince by buddying up with one or two new scouts. When my troop tried the NSP idea in 1986 as part of the experiment, it was a complete and utter failure. One person could not teach and work effectively with a bunch of new scouts. We lost a few Scouts because we did have a lot of problems on camp outs that the other patrols did not have. We went back to mixed aged patrols in 1987. When a new, patrol -sized, troop was formed, they went camping and did things with us to help them get on their feet. This was circa 1990, and that "troop" had major issues as no one had the basic T-2-1 Skills mastered. Eventually that troop merged with us, and the patrol was split into existing patrols. Never again did they put all the new scouts in one patrol. I want to say the NSP concept came from how the LDS troops are organized. All 11 year olds are in one patrol, with adults working with them until they turn 12. If you look at BSA training materials, it says the NSP has a NSP ASM assigned to them in addition to a TG.I do not like that because under the traditional patrol method, the only time adutls get involved is for safety, and if the Scouts can't teach somehting.

An update. Looks like we may have a new SM. My friend may be taking on the job since he is no longer affiliated with the pack. We'll see how long that lasts since one son is a Webelos, and step-son will be a Tiger next year. Plus his job. But he did say that with the abundance of adult leaders to help, we should have no problems. His approval as SM is in the hands of the troop committee and church committee. Thankfully he's a member of the church, and former youth minister. New SPL so far has taken the job seriously. Haven't worked with him since the Christmas Party though. But he does wants to adults to butt out a bit, only helping when asked. I hadn't told him my son's idea of only having 1 adult in the meeting room with the rest in another room. While we technically have 2 NSPs, in actuality we only have 1. The other is more a mixed aged patrol, they just haven't focused on advancement. Funny thing is, the 30 days of exercises is holding most back from Tenderfoot, and talking to the SM for Second and First Class. The actual NSP only got one new Scout from the Cross Over this month. The other 2 went to a nearby troop. That's fine. And in some aspects we needed a break from growth. The NSP needs some help, and we need to get the troop up to speed ASAP. One of the local packs that normally Crosses Over in December decided to hold back to March and the council Webeloree. DL wants to make a big production of the Cross Over at Webeloree. It will be the first Webeloree Cross Over in about 3 or 4 years as most troops in our area do Cross Over in the December through February range. So we may be getting 5 more. I do know that the WDL wants to keep the den at the CO's troop. Now if we could only get the CO's troop involved with the pack. We need to get ready for next year. There is the potential to get up to 18 new Scouts from my troop's CO's pack. Yep, they have 18 Webelos. And I have a feeling that my middle son, who is in another pack, will bring over his 10 man den. Sadly the pack's brother troop is not doing much with them. So even if we get half of the possible 28, that's still two NSPs! We do calendar years for planning purposes, not traditional program years. So the Annual Planning Conference was just done. The camp outs and activities are not as "adventurous" as some would like. But maybe that is what we need to get the two actual NSP patrols completely up to speed and doing thing correctly. I have a feeling that if we get 14 new Scouts next year, we will need to go "old school" and have "Traditional Patrols" and a venture patrol for the older Scouts in troop level leadership roles. I really do think having everyone mixed up helps transition and camping out more.

I admit, I was "encouraged" to get Eagle by an uncle and cousin. But it was two other cousin's double Eagle COH that really impressed and inspired me to get Eagle as an 8 year old Wolf Cub Scout. In fact, the entire troop made such an impression on me, that when I switched troops, I went to them.

I admit, the adults made the decision for the Cross Over we got 2 weeks ago: wait until January 26th to get the new book, and just start using the new requirements. Since his Cross Over, all we had was the Christmas Party. Next Week is the next meeting. For the rest of them, We've informed them they have until December 31, 2016 to get to First Class or the next higher rank under the current requirements. What I hope does NOT happen is that units ignore the changes and have their Scouts keep working on the old requirements. Had a troop do that, and when they folded, some transferred Scouts had some advancement challenges. One of those Scouts had to appeal for an extension to get Eagle! Thankfully, he got it.

"As for the original questions, like others, I'm not as skilled in the specifics of how the one-year webelos program works within the LDS units, but for other units, say a boy in 4th grade worked on, but did not complete the Webelos badge; it is my understanding that any adventures he earned could be use to fulfil the elective requirements for the AOL (since they technically were not used for the Webelos Badge)." Only as electives. HOWEVER I do not know how the Webelos Duty to God and You Adventure and Arrow of Light Duty to God in Action Adventure would work since the first requirement is identical, and the rest are nearly identical.

I agree with you, and think the new changes greatly diminish the AOL and the work of those who have been with the program a while. But the new rules are the new rules. We cannot add nor subtract them.

Vumbi, Actually my first year Webelos pointed it out to me. When he got his new book, he read it, and told me he didn't need to earn Webelos to get his AOL. So he was going to skip it and go directly to AOL so he can move up in May at 10.5 years. Then he changed his mind and decide to stick with his friends.

Unless it's district or council level folks, the troop or team committee selects the adult. The committee should be following the rules. But I've seen SMs allow folks to be candidates for election when they didn't meet the camping requirement. So I guess committees would too. Unfortunately there is no check as a "Scout is Trustworthy...."

I know LDS units do things a little differently, i.e. no Tigers; Wolves are age 8; Bears age 9; and Webelos age 10, and I do not know how the new program affected the LDS format. BUT under the new Cub Scout program, Webelos is not needed to earn AOL. BUT they need to do the new Adventures to get the AOL badge.

Powderhorn is suppose to be a pin now.

I've given out the flint and steel tools before. Real cheap ones to fit in budget. This specifically http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Starter-Flint-Stone-Lighter/dp/B00K5I058Y/ref=pd_sim_468_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=51dUlP1NKVL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=15598NXPK8BS0N9YS5PE They do work, but a bit of practice is needed.

BERSTIE, 1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! All, if you red my question on how to your units conduct elections and appoint positions, then you have a bit of an update. Elections, which should have been easy and smooth, turned into a long convoluted process. Long story short, you cannot nominate yourself, you need to be nominated for office. AND everyone seemed like they needed to reciprocate by nominating the person who nominated them for the same position And it's kinda a "tradition" that you don't vote for yourself. At least that's what my son told me. Found out last nite when the unit did OA elections and we were talking about them. That and some other things the OA didn't do or say, but that's a different story. An aside, never plan a unit election the same nite as a Cross Over ceremony, when the bulk of your election team are on the ceremony team as well. BACK ON TOPIC. While the SPL and PLS were elected, unfortunately the rest of them were appointed by the SM. Folks were nominated for the various positions, but he appointed them. Not too happy about that as well, especially since I know one appointment was made because an ASM plans on doing the bulk of the work since he is a gear junkie. Campout this weekend was OK, but we had issues. new SPL didn't plan anything because the SM told him he would take care of it. I personally was not happy about that, and we did have some bored Scouts and visiting Webelos. Not how SPL or I envisioned it. NSP had some arguing about stuff bought, not bought, and lost. I had to intervene to prevent a parent from going off on some of the Scouts. Long story short, Dad worked with scout prior to the trip and told the scout he should get some clarifications on items on the list to make sure the son bought the right stuff. Son did get clarification, and he shopped for the list as specified. Dad was the one who took him shopping, but did not interfere. Again if it wasn't on the list, the Scout did not buy it. When the patrol started getting ticked off and call the scout an idiot, dad almost went ballistic. I jumped in and worked with them. I'd rather they get a talk about how things work and Scout Spirit from me than an angry parent. An aside; funny thing is the guy calling folks "idiot" was the one who when he was suppose to shop, grandma did it for him, went overbudget buying stuff not on the list or more food than the list stated, and ended up paying out of pocket for a good bit of it. And about 1/3 of the food was thrown away because it was too much or improperly stored. Dinner was "interesting" in that for the most part the scout were left alone. Very hard for the parent to do and one of the ASMs. One idea to distract adults, playing card games. that kept them busy a good bit. Kids had some issues, but dealt with it themselves. Adults got involved when it was discovered the NSP didn't have cleaning supplies. We did a trade: cleaning supllies in exchange for them doing our dishes. The adults were happy with that, but don't think the Scouts were. The NSP also had problems in that the duty roster they came up with was incomplete, missing information, and the TG and PL were having issues with who was suppose to do what. While they eventually got that settled, they did get a reminder that the duty roster needs to be complete. Frustrating that the TG needed a reminder about the completeness of menus. But glad that he worked out issues that were arising in regards to cooking and KP. Yep, one Scout wanted to be a slacker and not do KP properly. Morning was a charlie foxtrot. took the NSP 4 hours to cook, do KP, and strike camp. It was bad enough that parents were showing up to pick up the kids, and one of them got involved. He's is now moving from WDL to some troop position, so it's going to get interesting. Need to get him trained and OUT OF THE SCOUTS' HAIR. He was the one who bought the food for the patrol previously. He was complaining about the chaos that is the NSP and has jumped in once before. On a positive note, they were able to camp spread out. They cooked under the same shelter, which caused some headaches, but overall they were doing stuff as patrols. We got a lock in next month. Because of the improper food storage situation and issues with KP 2 months ago, and almost this weekend before the TG nipped it in the bud, we have a retired health inspector coming in to talk about the importance of storing food properly and cleaning properly. I'm hoping it has some "cool" photos and isn't boring lecture. That was adult driven. But after rock climbing, we will be having a "field day." Troop spent money getting supplies for the Scouts, and as I've mentioned, some of the supplies were not taken care of and thrown away, or are missing. Patrols have not kept inventories, despite repeated suggestions to do so. While the Field Day was essentially an adult decision, we do have buy in from most of the Scouts as they are sick of other patrols borrowing stuff and not returning it. And I think that's another issue. Instead of always having three patrols, we have been combining them from time to time based upon numbers. In fact I want to say the last time the NSP used their patrol box was the camp out I got injured at. Long journey ahead.

In regards to lawsuits against COs for choosing their own leaders since July, I have no idea. I do know that there have been several prior to that, and not just based upon sexuality. There was a lawsuit against one CO by a parent because the CO wanted their members in leadership roles in the pack. The parent was not a member of the congregation, nor a member of the denomination and did sue. While it can be hard to be in that situation, I'm in it to a degree at the moment, I do understand where the COs are coming from. I also know the importance of having a good CO to UNITS relationship. In my current situation, I'm in the background supporting my Scouts to the best of my ability.

SP, Sorry for the misunderstanding. I would need to get recertified. And I don't have the paid time off to do it. Heck, the troop's leaders were discussing who would be going to summer camp last nite at camp. One made the comment it's a pity I'm dealing with the paperwork, but can't go.

I'm so sorry to hear about this. A few thoughts. 1) Do you really think the anti Scout led leader will remain? If yes, AND your son is affected to the point of quitting, then move to another trip. If not, you may need stay and help out as best you can and take on the repsonsibility when anti-Scout led ASM fumbles. 2) If step down, be supportive of your son and look to other areas to support Scouting. Good luck.

My cert is expired and I need to go back. I admit I never dealt with the certification aspect as PD. We got enough issues that I don't want to worry about a conditional certification and getting a waiver.

Jackdaws, I'm willing to do anything EXCEPT go to NCS again and take a week off. I do not have the vacation time to do that anymore. I still have copies of everything I've done. I can essentially hand someone an entire program on a silver platter. All that would need to be done is update it to the new advancement, i.e. these activities meet these requirements. Heck the old PD just dropped off all the supplies at my house for storage. I do not want that stuff going into the maw that is the council service center. It will either be lost, damaged, or sent to the main camp never to be seen by Cub Scouts again. Already had to have a DE get involved in getting my supplies once from summer camp. They didn't order their supplies in a timely manner, and tried to "requisition" mine! Hardest part would be recruiting folks. I hate to ask someone to do something that I can't do. Desertrat and Qwasze, Kinda hard to let go of something you busted your butt to improve. Our "Down Period" lasted over 10 years. I remember being a DE and going to day camp to support it and it only had 7 Cubs attending. Yes, you heard me 7! By the time I first staffed it in 2009, we had 22. We had 3 good years, then in decline again. I served in the background trying to pull it together, and became the PD again at the last minute when the CD was "fired" for not attending council day camp meetings. But since I've stepped back a second time, it has faded fast and is essentially flatlined Yes, it's been hard on me emotionally because of the decline. Desertrat and SeattlePioneer, The DE, his boss the DD, and the District Chair all know about the situation. I hate to say it, but the DC, and most of the committee, is more focused on Boy Scout than Cub Scouts. I'm actually the only CS rep to show up at the meetings. Others feel it's a waste of time. As for the DE, he is brand new, and to be honest I believe he will be assigned summer duties at the council's HA base. He is NCS certified for that program since he worked there 3 summer prior to being a DE. As for the DD, don't know about except he is extremely overworked managing 3 large districts by himself while sharing the DE with another DD ( don't ask, our professional org is screwed up with DEs covering multiple districts, in some cases multiple service areas) JoeBob, That's a good idea. Possibly evening or weekend activites may be better. Less paperwork to deal with. And wouldn't have to deal with NCAP. RS, I wish I could take another vacation! Hopefully by the time 2017 comes around, I will have enough time to do so.

I admit I have not been active as a knight for a while, so I do not know what is going on. I can say this though. The KofC are not under direct parish control, but do have control from religious authorities. Although they do a lot for the local parish. Some parishes do not have a KofC council, and some KofC councils will have there own club houses separate from the parish property. I know that one KofC parish I was in had such a club house, and that is where the troop met. KofC viewed Scouting as part of their ''patriotism'' obligation, and only a few Scouts were members of the Catholic Church. That said, I have mixed emotions on this. Taking it at face value, I see where the focus should be on the church and its members, so the move has a non-legal reason for it. But I also see where it can be seen as a move to protect the KofC from lawsuits since they may been seen as a civic group. So the move maybe how the KofC will protect themselves and their obligation to follow Catholic orthodoxy, while continueing to support Scouting. One concern I have is anti-Catholic bias and bigotry. You would be surprised at how many folks do not associate the KofC with the Catholic Church. They would let their kids join a KofC chartered unit, but ''hell will freeze over before I go to meetings at a [)(+!¦% Catholic Church.''

Stosh, By professional, I meant anyone with high level knowledge, skills, abilities, and certifications who have a legal obligation to perform tthe needed skill.

I think the day camp in my district will be dead this year. Don't know what happened, but something did occur between the CD and the PD. PD's job has him traveling all over, so he stated he will not be back. CD, said after last year's expereince, he ain't doing it again. Said he didn't get a lot support and cannot do it all by himself. So with less than 7 months, 4 months to NCS, we have no CD, PD, staff. NOTHING, When this was announced at the district meeting, folks were looking at me to pick it up. I staffed it for 6 years, being PD for 3. But I do not have the vacation time to do it. After being out for 7.5 weeks, I need to save up my paid time off all over again. And to be honest, I have no idea who to try and recruit. The CD I worked under was a real micromanager who turned people off. The guy who replaced her wasn't a planner. He was a "seat of your pants" type. So there was no recruiting for folks to run stuff. Heck the last year I worked, I was suppose to be with my Tiger and leading a combined Tiger/Wolf den. Because he didn't recruit anyone for shooting sports, I spent more time on the ranges than I did with my Tiger. I wasn't at day camp last year, but I have been told by many that it was unorganized chaos. A lot of complaints. After the past 2 years I don't know if it's worth saving or not.

I would say go ahead and put him in, but after filling out one of those forms recently, you need their approval to complete the form. My understanding is that UNLESS they are professionals, i.e lifeguards, EMTs, etc, ANY lifesaving action, no matter how big or small can qualify. I know the form for the Honor Medal and Medal of Merit is the same, so don't let that scare you. There is an approval process, don't know how long that will take, but hopefully less than 2 years. I would really like to attend the ceremony if the guy who pulled me out of the ocean back in August is approved. And he will be in this area only for 2 more years.

I know there are a lot of complaints about some of the stuff being built at camps. Heck I was ticked off at the pool that was built at my old camp, when we have a gorgeous man-made lake with built to Safe Swim Defense specs waterfront. I thought it was a waste of money. BUT, I found out that there are a lot of laws, both federal and state, that are being pushed on camps. That was why my old camp had to build a pool. That's why all BSA camps have to deal with the National Camp Accreditation Program, which replaced the various National Standards. A lot of the improvements are being mandated.

Definitely true. I've need to relearn some things about younger Scouts. I've spent too much time on the district level working with the OA or adults and on the Cub level, that I need to relearn working with new Boy Scouts. sat down and realized it's been essentially 11 years sicne I worked with a troop as an ASM.

I was responding to this comment. "Just get everone working on the new requirements ASAP." I admit I may be overly concerned about the rank changes because of a situation that happened in my district. We had a Scout get denied a Life BOR, which affected him getting Eagle before 18. Long story short, the troop he was originally in allowed him to use the pre-2009 BSHB requirements that were in effect when he joined, and did not tell him about changes to the various rank requirements. It was only after that troop went to Trail's Life, and he joined another troop that he found out that there was still more to do Life. It was discovered at the SM Conference. This delay caused him to miss the "6 months as a Life..." Eagle requirement as his Life BOR was at the 17 years 7 months mark. Thankfully he received a waiver, earned his Eagle, and is active as an ASM with the troop, and one of the chapter vice-chiefs.