Eagle94-A1

I heard one say, "Cubs don't need to camp." This was at a program conference. Thankfully no one else heard him.

1 &2. Then why did we have to resubmit records if there was an easy fix? And why does it keep happening every time there is an upgrade? 2. Depending upon your age, internet may not have been around. But this is not a straw argument, this is reality. in rural America. 4. Maybe, maybe not. But I can tell you professional serive is non existant on my area.

We had something similar almost happen. There was an electric line issue at the camp during an event. One of the Scouters was an electric lineman, and came straight from work to the event, so he had everything needed to fix the problem. He fixed the issue, but a member of the council camping committee was there, had a conniption fit over having someone not approved doing the work. Funny thing was, he worked for the power company that the camp used, and worked there previously when a hurricane hit a few years earlier.

UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Yelling in agreement) The local council camp ceased summer camp operations in the 1960s. Up until the time it was sold, it was used for events and Scout camping. It had minimal facilities, and a caretaker. While the caretaker did maintenance, a lot of it, as well as camp improvements, were made by volunteers over the years. I still remember when a hurricane hit the camp, and a call for volunteers was made to get the camp ready for 2 events within a month, otherwise they would be cancelled. Over 300 people showed up to work on the camp. So much was done, that the caretaker started giving us stuff to do on his longterm wish list. We had professionals in their fields ( plumbers, electricians, lineman, etc) fixing and improving the camp in 1 day. And that camp, despite not being a resident camp, was profitable. Almost every weekend, troops were using it. Another council used it to host events, because it was closer for Cub families to go to than their own camp. That camp subsidized the summer camp.

Not necessarily. I have lived in small, mostly urban councils, large mostly rural councils, and everything in between. The urban councils were MUCH better off, despite being smaller. The extremely large rural one is doing extremely poorly. I think it is a combination of things that make successful council. First and foremost is customer service. Pros gotta be seen at things, outside of FOS, and actually listen to volunteers and act upon suggestions. Even if only a temporary solution to a problem is made, that shows concern. One of the best SEs I ever met, when confronted with a problem, made a note of it, said it cannot be solved properly this year, but could this temporary measure work until we could fix the problem permanently. Another SE made lots of camp improvements. He listened to the SMs at the camp, as well as the SPLs of the camp. Improvements have been made. He had signs made stating XYZ project funded by 20XX FOS dollars or Popcorn money. He showed where the money is going. That council has a lot going for it.

A few things. 1. If an error like the one I describe happens, and cannot be fixed easily, that is an issue. It should not take rebuilding records from scratch. 2. if BSA’s systems are so reliable, why is it that information is still incorrect? My son’s records were missing things, and had the wrong Cub Scout pack in the records, a pack that did not exist at the time? 3. You do realize that areas of the country have either no internet service, or service is not affordable? And as a result folks do not use SCOUTBOOK et al, because they do not have internet access at home. And do we want folks using shared computers at the public library? 4 you do realize that some districts are struggling to provide basic services, like recruitment, program, etc?

Here is the crazy thing about camp staff, some will do it for the pittance because it is fun. Hard work? Absofreakinglutely. Fun, great camraderie, making a difference, Yes in deed. How do I know, I VOLUNTEERED to work a week of summer camp since I could not go with my troop. 3 squares, a cot, tshirts, and staff necker and hat. And those items means more to me than money for some weird reason. But I know some staff cannot do that. Heck it was the reason why I didn't work staff when I was in HS: I made more in 1 day working than staff did in an entire week.

And a lack of interest in council events, especially those that used to be held at the camp sold.

I guess folks at national don't realize that some places have school until mid-June.

I do not know, nor care about my local summer camp, despite being a former staffer. It was not a great experience as a staffer, and was worst the only time I went there as a camper. I cannot recommend it. And it has gotten worse since I went from folks who have been recently. IMHO, and that of many others, it is the camp that should have been sold. especially since any time there is a major storm, there is a lot of damage to the camp due to its location. Now the local council camp that was sold was a different story. Because of it's location, folks from 3 councils used it. Heck I remember trying to plan a district event, and the prime weekend was booked by another council for their district event! Also because of it's location, units travelling up and down the East Coast would use it. I do not know the attendance stats on capacity and usage. But I do know the camp made enough to pay all its bills year round AND support the summer camp. That camp actually made money for the council.

I have seen, met, and in a few cases know personally regional and national OA officers. Bill Hillcourt said it best, "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" (sic)

I am skeptical of BSA's IT systems, as they have had major issues in the past. Twice in a five year period, BSA's IT system lost every single person's training, first in my district, second time was the entire council. It took me 18 months to recreate everyone's records the first time, and I am glad I kept a hard copy and electronic copy. That saved me a lot of work the second time. But I lost my trained status a few months ago, despite having everything up to date. I have seen every MBC in the council disappear. I have seen advancement records that I personally inputted later go missing, or have the wrong information. And don't forget there were issues with SYT a few months back. People were taking it, and it wasn't registering. And don't get me started on camp staff training. I spent half a day doing it because of issues with it.

Folks invest blood, sweat, tears, time, and treasure in their camps. So when one is sold, it feels like a betrayal, and you no longer trust the organization.

It sounds as if you want adults running things. If that is the case, then OA needs to stop being advertised as youth run. And yes I do think youth should run both the lodge and national. I have seen first hand what happens when adults interfere and ignore the youth, and you are seeing it too with lower interest and membership.

Remember, at one point in the 1980-2000s, and possibly a little earlier, Explorers, and Venturers until sometime after 2002, could wear their rank patch until they were 21. First two scout camps I worked at had a lot of folks wearing the rank patch on their green Exploring shirts. One of my coworkers with national supply loved modeling his Venturing uniform, when official pants and shorts came out in 2000/2001, because he could still wear the rank patch with it. He had the knot on his tan shirt.

For an organization that claims to be youth led, we got a lot of old fogeys running things

IMHO, the OA made a mistake in the 1990s when they changed the election process. Prior to the change, I saw only 1 troop, get all three elected, and the SM told them how to vote so that it was possible. Now having everyone elected is the norm. And they doubled-down on adults with SMs automatically getting in. As for old blood running things instead of the youth, I agree, but it needs to start at the national level first. I do not know what the current stats are, but at one time maybe 10% of the National Committee were youth.

From talking to youth and adults who have seen the new ceremony , it is not as good. Folks were promoting the final current ceremony, saying you really don’t want to miss out.

So, I am at Camp Cherokee in NC and having a blast. Eating well, best camp food I ever had. Thank you .

Don't forget costs. National fees are up. Councils are implementing their fees on top of that. Then uniforms and books. Then activities.

Would not recommend. As an active RT member and on the district and council training staff as an 18-20 YO ASM, and as a 21- 24 YO OA chapter adviser, many adults viewed my age in a negative light. I had been ignored, told I don't know what I am doing or talking about, and even cursed out at. All because of my age. What helped was 3 adults who saw the value in my opinions. I could say something and be completely ignored. They said the exact same thing, and it was brilliant. ASM is the way to go. They adults know them, the youth know and respect them. And they probably have more influence over the Scouts than the other adults.

UNDERSTATEMENT! (emphasis). We also lose FOS support. The district chair who was yelled and cursed out at, well not only did he quit, he stopped contributing to FOS. Talked to other business leaders about this, and they dropped their FOS contributions. Today, the area that was my old district raises 10% of what I did 30 something years ago.

And those national volunteers who do have unit connections, and voice their objections get outvoted and eventually removed. I knew one national member working on the 2015 Cub Scout program. Although he crossed over to Scouts, he still had a lot of Cub Scout connections with his old pack. He asked for ideas, shared thoughts, etc. the 2015 Cub Program was a game changer. It was more active, required a lot more planning to coordinate things with the different dens, BUT it worked if you prepared. 2015 program got watered down in December 2016, and he was removed from the committee. In fact no one from the committee knew anything about the changes until after they were announced.

The quality of out professional leadership is garbage, they keep changing requirements and processes without any consideration for the volunteers, creating further problems and hassles for volunteers to deal with. Fixed it for you.

You got me.