Eagle94-A1

Middle son is in a similar situation, i.e. a late birthday. He realized under the new program that he could skip Webelos and go directly to AOL and get into the troop in time for summer camp. He changed his mind when he found out that he would not be joining the patrol his current Boy Scout friends were in, but a different NSP. And his buddies in the Webelos would also be in a different NSP when they moved up. Thankfully he's sticking with his friends.

What part of the country? Sounds like mine. While not in a B.A.L.O.O. course, a comment from a new ASM, "Man, Scouting is cramping my camping. I haven't been backpacking in 4 months (due to the monthly troop camp outs). "

Everybody is spot on IMHO. My oldest was one of those 5 year old Tigers due to his birthday. And yes it gets tricky when it's time to Cross Over. My son was age 10 years 3 months and X days old when he Crossed Over.

From http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/MBCounselorGuide.aspx As a merit badge counselor, your mission is to join fun with learning. You are both a teacher and mentor as the Scout works on a merit badge and learns by doing. Your hands-on involvement could inspire a Scout to develop a lifelong hobby, pursue a particular career, or become an independent, self-supporting adult. [Emphasis added] Me personally it depends on the Scout. Some Scouts take to topics like fish to water. In those cases I mentor, maybe a little teaching is done, and verify they did the work. Indian Lore and the Citizenships tend to be like that more than others I counsel. Sometimes teaching is more involved, a lot more involved. Lifesaving, Canoeing, Wilderness Survival tend to be those MBs And sometimes it's a mix of both. First Aid, especially when changes occur (FYI expect changes in CPR and First Aid techniques next year). Is my best example.

STOP THE PRESSES! In looking for the syllabus online, I found this link which shows that OWL can be done in conjunction with IOLS or as a 12 hour standalone course http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-336.pdf

Exactly. I got the red and maroon polo shirts while I worked for supply. I would wear the 1997 activity uniform to school, then show up at work and put on the tan field uniform shirt The tan shorts were actually a gift from one of my Eagles. he worked at a local army surplus store that was a BSA distributor. He got the shorts for me as a thank gift so that Icould "complete your [uniform] collection."

Have heard about this happening, seen it, and my own son was a victim of this, The difference in my son's case was that while the MBC was extremely knowledgeable, he used old, out of date requirements, and focused on specific "fun" requirements and completing ignored the time consuming ones. But everyone passed. As a leader, once signed off, he earned it. As his dad, we had a nice long discussion on it. May have been wrong, but we used the version of requirements that the MBC used, several years out of date, and had him complete the missing MB requirements. He didn't go to the MBU this past spring again. Last time I taught Indian Lore at the event, I had some negative reviews because I gave out partials. Also had a Scout who was upset he would be getting a partial, and expressed by being a smart aleck. Eventually he stopped when he asked ' which is more dangerous Rugby or Lacross?" My response, 'while Rugby is a thug sport played by gentlemen, no one ever died from playing and losing in Rugby unlike Lacross or one of it's many versions of it."

The nuances are not that difficult. Just need a little more time. I've found folks would rather spend a little more time on 1 weekend getting both OWL and IOLS completed, than have to take up 2 weekends doing essentially the same course over again.

Ok here is the link to the first SM Specifc Syllabus. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/34879.pdf

Another BSA Scource Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training Syllabus copyright 2005 and 2010 Printing found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/34879.pdf on page 150 states : "The parts of a field uniform are these:" then goes on to decsribe the tan and green uniform. Same page also states "The parts of the activity uniform are these:" and goes on to describe a t-shirt or other activity shirt, and green shorts, socks, and Scout belt. Current Scoutmaster Position Specific Syllabus, found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-213_WB.pdfon page 5 states: Faculty Uniforms The course faculty members should set a good example as trainers and representatives of the local council. Accordingly, they are expected to wear the complete and correct Scouting field uniform appropriate to their Scouting positions during the course. (emphasis added) Hope this helps.

BSA has major issues with consistency in their literature. This is one example. The SCOUTING MAGAZINE article is another example. A third example is the current discussion of a facebook page regarding the SUMMERTIME AWARD. Current BSA program year is Sept. to Aug. Yet Cubs move to the next level and begin worming on new rank June 1st. This inconsistancy has started multipple debates on the SUMMERTIME AWARD. But the best example of BSA's inconsistancy is venture/Venturing. From Aug. 1989 to Aug. 1998, a venture crew was what you called your older Scout patrol, were called Venture Scouts, and had their own additional awards they could earn in the Varsity/Venture Letter and the assorted pins. Then BSA decided to call tradional Exploring ''Venturing'' when it split, its units ''crews'' and its Member ''Venturers''. It was mentioned to the nat. Venturing dir. The use of similar terms, and. the confusion it would, and continues 17 years later, to cause.

I've read some districts will combine the two so that the common materials are together, then split off into IOLS and WeLOT. I've seen it done where the course did IOLS then kept the Cub leaders a little long to talk about some of the differences. Anyone remember when national was going to combine to the courses?

WHO TOLD HIM HE NEEDS TO TAKE WFA?!?!?!?!?! (emphasis, ok shouting in shock!) My troop's Philmont expedition has an EMT going who went to Philmont 2 or 3 years ago, and his EMT cert allowed him to meet the WFA requirement when he went. Has this changed?

Remember there are options when yoour son looks for troops.

Sorry to hear about your son's troop. I know how it hurts when folks you worked with and looked up to folks who don't come to an ECOH that you invited them to. One of my cousin's is an Eagle. He got the invitation and said he would be there. I gave him two parts in the ceremony to perform. A few weeks before the ceremony, He backs out. Why? Because I am taking 1 course at his old university's arch rival. Luckily, one of my old SPL's was able to make it. He said he would try to get leave to make it, but no guarantees. He got leave and showed up. In addition to the very small part I put in the script for him in case he did make it, he got all of my cousin's parts. I must say putting him on the spot to talk about me led to a great roasting of me. He was SPL when I first became a PL, and he had to do a LOT of mentoring. I think my old SPL showing up was a heck of a lot better than having my cousin there.

Issue with the GTSS IMHO is that it is written by health and safety folks who are either using laws that reality should not apply to BSA ( remember when that little red wagon rule came out, it was based upon Department of Labor laws for business), or are heavily influenced by lawyers and our society's excessive demand for lawsuits. Heck I was even told to sue someone who helped me out when I was injured on the beach.

As a former DE who was contacted about a similar and asked my SE how to deal with it, I can tell you that "it is a unit problem." Good luck.

1) forgot to welcome you to the forums. 2) Love the VF-1J armoured Veritech that is your avatar.

Don't remind me about how easily folks get offended. Anyone hear about the girl who is suing her rescuer for rape? She said he touched her inappropriately and kissed doing CPR and she was not able to giver her consent. Now I read that it was a joke on one website, but on another it was real. And with the way folks are nowadays, I could believe it.

I've heard multiple reasons why they took the red out of the Boy Scout uniform. Some silly, i.e. someone at national didn't like red and BSA didnt want to look as if they favored one political party, to rational, i.e. subdued colors are LNT friendly. What I hated about the switchover was the lack of guidance and information by national and utter confusion and waste of money it caused. And Insignia Guide came out a year after the uniforms were unveiled and 9 months after the uniforms became available. Initially it said anyone wearing a Centennial Uniform (CU) had to go with the green on tan numbers, so of course Cub Scout leaders and Webelos getting new CUs got those tan and green numbers. Then around January rumors came out that Cub leaders and Webelos are suppose to wear the red and whites in the CUs. Then some literature came out with Webelos wearing red numbers on a tan background, that didn't even exist! In late April 2009, I joined a pack, and to get the correct colored numbers, I called my old National Scout Shop, to get an answer from a national source. I was told CU = green on tan numbers. I asked about the red on tan numbers, and was told they were a proposal that didn't go anywhere because it would be a 5th line of numbers that national would have to make. So I got the green on tan numbers. 2 weeks later, the IG comes out and says that CS leaders and Webelos wear red on whites. The only thing that national got correct IMHO was allowing ODL uniform items to be worn with the CUs per the literature that was in effect from May 2008 ( announcement) until May 2009 ( when IG came out) So I have no problem defending scouts at the district camporee's uniform inspection wearing the red and white numbers. Some things I say before the IG came out are the following: Venturers wearing the tan and green numbers and trained strips because " we were told only Cub Scouts wear red numbers" Cub Scouts in blue wearing tan and green because that was all that was left at the distributor and the parents didn't know better. Boy Scouts wearing the Venturing green loops Venturers wearing the Boy Scout green loops Suffice to say, I think the CUs were not thought out completely prior to being introduced. I think it shows when a new uniform shirt comes out within 5 years of one being introduced.

Yes, scouting IS family. Glad you are better, and keeping you in my prayers.

Tahawk, I think that the problem is the powers that be have no consistency in their publications. Now do they understand how the various programs work. Remember the terminology they used when the Centennial uniforms came out in 2008? I loved how the adult leader inspection sheets specified the new shirts for Boy Scouts leaders, and the old ones for Cub Scout leaders. And do not get me started on the green on tan numbers and trained strips vs the white on red numbers and red on tan trained strips. In regards to trained strips, G2AI shows 3 different types For shirts with pocket sleeves, the emblem is worn on the sleeve pocket flap above the badge of office; red, No. 18120, Cub Scout and Venturing leaders; forest green, No. 18064, Boy Scout leaders. For shirts without pocket sleeves, the emblem is worn on the left sleeve immediately below and touching the emblem of office for which it was earned; red, No. 280, Cub Scout and Venturing leaders; forest green, No. 18064, Boy Scout leaders. But then in one of the national training committee newsletters and on a BSA website, it states it any trained strip is appropriate for any position.

ROTF! Seriously though. I had one parent, buy a Duluth pack from a national scout shop thinking it would be appropriate for backpacking. I don't know if she asked for help, but I can tell you that not everyone who works for supply division knows what they are selling, or to outfit someone. I had one coworker who would send folks to me to help them out. And there is pressure to make sales. True story. My manager was furious at me because during a relatively quiet afternoon, I spent about 30-45 minutes talking to a new Boy Scout leader about camping gear. Talking about what to look for, different features and how they are used, size, and how to try out, i.e. bringing 25 pounds of gear to put in it. I even told the guy about other stores that may have backpacks that are better suited to him. He left without buying anything. Boss chewed me out, I think I lost 10-15 pounds in the glutus maximus from the chewing out He shows back up about 20 minutes later, brought some weight with him, and tried out some backpacks. Sold him a pack, mess kit, cutlery, hiking socks, and other stuff.

Oscar De La Renta

To quote the Doctor, 'RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" I've had bad experiences with K-mart stuff. VERY BAD There are deals and programs out there. ALPS Mountaineering has the HIKERDIRECT.COM program. Coleman, which I am leery of, has a program. Other vendors have programs too. As for backpacking versus plop camping, let me elaborate. Yes indeed there are ways to get good backpacks inexpensively. I've mentioned facebook and ebay, But Government Surplus has been my friend for a very long time. But I personally like to give folks some time to look at, try on, and get a feel on what to look for in a backpack, as well as get a chacne to see what is out there. Grant you there are a lot more resources available in buying a backpack nowadays compared to when I bought my first backpack as a K-Mart special that broke on the 2nd trip I ever used it on, the week long backpacking trip I might add, but I like to give as much information and advice prior to buying a backpack. Don't want what happened to me to happen to someone else. Nor do I want someone buying a backpack designed for canoeing to be used on a backpacking trip.