Eagle94-A1

Don't know the economic resoources of your scouts, but a good backpack may be out of reach for a new scoout initially. My troop does the plop camping. But with a group going to Philmont next year, we are slowly integrating backpping skills and gear. Just because you have backpacking gear, doesn't mean you cant plop camp. Heck, my son found a fully stocked chuck box at a yard sale for $40. Most of the gear was designed for packpacking!

10th ed. BSHB 1990, states what a field uniform is and has an image on page 566. Also has a descriptio of the activities uniform, field uniform with a polo shirt. That's the 1997 printing, and i think the image was changed because the 1990 ed, first printing SMHB, uses field and activity uniforms, and has pics on pages 231 to 233. The image of the uniforms also includes the tan activity shorts with white socks that they stopped producing around 1995. And yes, I have a pair of the tan shorts.

Part of how you respond and replys comes about your relationship and experineces with your Scouts. I will call them ''hoodlums'' at times becuase of a movie reference. One family joke that I modified for my oldest when Scouting, has now been applied to all of the Scouts in his patrol and a few others. And they modified it to use on the Adults in on it. However, I woould not use the ''go away you horrible Scout'' on a new Scout who would think I'm serious. What's funny is that on one camp out, the patrol had a pool on when I would say it.:-)

OUTSTANDING!

Thanks for the responses. I admit I got 4 selfish reasons for doing what I do : my Second Class Scout, my Webelos Cub Scout, my Wolf Cub Scout, and Payback. First 3 are obvious, but there is no way in Hades that I can pay back to the leaders how much their time, energy, and care meant to me. Closest is continuing their legacy.

My thoughts. 1. Make sure the Scouts have some sweat equity in the purchasing of equipment. I've seen good donated equipment abused 2. Once you figure out the gear you need, look at Craigslist.org, garage sales, etc to get stuff. 3. I love government surplus gear. As one of the ASM's would say, ''if it's designed for combat, it may survive Scouts.'' There are state programs where nonprofits and local government agencies can buy gear cheap. In NC, ALICE packs for $20, axes and saws for $10, etc. Good luck!

I know it is a very big deal. I knew going into this decision how important the troop is to the church. One reason why I wanted to talk to the SM and my friend the ASM/CM about it. I know first hand how important the relationship with the CO and units are, I do not want to damage that. The Church's relationship with the pack and troop is one of the reasons why I am glad my son picked the troop. All day I have been thinking about typing a letter, rescinding the offer to be SM, and emphasizing that I am formally relinquishing my job as a committee member and will serve as an ASM. Which I thought was done already back in June, but apparently wasn't. My goal is to take care of the Scouts. On a positive note, the BORs went well. 2 PLs are now Tenderfoot, one of the Scouts I had since 1st grade also is Tenderfoot, and Oldest is Second Class. AND he may be able to finish up the last requirement for First Class, cooking 3 meals on a single camp out and have his BOR by Holloween. Apparently the SM also didn';t realize it was a single camp out, and had been signing off after they had done a breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And the Tenderfeet did a great job.

How good a relationship do you have with the troop, and how much work is left to get AOL? If they are only waiting for the 6 months since completing 4th grade, see if the troop will let them visit meetibgs and go camping. Son's troop has an open door policy, and Webelos can go on any trip allowable by BSA. We had 2 Webelos do hiking while the troop worked on backpacking and hiking. Another thing if they are chomping at the bit. Cross them over as soon as they are 10.5 or in December.

Keep it up. I had a similar discussion between BORs with one of the patrols last nite. IMHO, our society has conditioned them to follow the adults' lead, and they have a hard time comprehending that they can do what they want, within BSA guidelines, as a patrol.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! (And yes, I am screaming at you at the top of my lungs like I would any new Cub Scout leader ) 2) Guide to Insignia and Awards is your answer, http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx 3) Regarding stars, you got 2 options OPTION A. X Star on a CS yellow background for the X number of years as a Cub ( And if you have an old 1 year star on TC Orange background from when it was a separate program you can wear that OR add a year to the yellow background) Y Star on a green BS background AND a Z star on a leader blue background. Option B Add X+Y+Z and wear that total on a blue background.

Update I had a conversation with the COR/CC. He is going to think about it and bring it not only to the troop committee, but the church board. The issue that may cause some challenges is that I am not a member of the church, nor of their faith. Scouting is truly viewed as an outreach program with the church, and the troop has attracted families to them. If I would be approved, I would be the first non-member as SM ever, and the troop has been around on and off, mostly on, for over 60 years. Believe it or not, I do not have a problem with it, and understand where the church is coming from. Regardless of the decision, I am sticking with them.

Actually I read about a case where an SM was put into the Ineligible Volunteer Files after being seen in a bar, in uniform after summer camp. Thankfully he followed the appeal process and explained why he was in a bar, in full uniform, and was reinstated: it was the closest place from where his troop bus broke down that had a phone to call a tow truck for the bus, and parents to pick up Scouts.

MattR, National BSA has come up with some standards that approved providers agree to use for WFA. Here's a link http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-008.pdf

Couple of things. 1) Agree with the pencil whipping comment. IMHO, and I know many will disagree. but doing away with the Skill Awards has contributed to that occurring. One thing mandated by the adults in my son's, and I will continue to do, is during the January lock in, working on/reviewing First Aid skills. I think knowing first aid is a vital skill, and wish First Aid MB was required for First Class Scout again. 2) In regards to epi-pens laws vary from state-state. In some states, only the person who the epi-pen is prescribed to can administer it, or someone approved by their parent/guardian. Some states allow anyone with training to administer it. Plus there are professional/licensing issues. One of my coworkers has issues requiring an epi-pen. We were told that if they ever goes into shock and needs the epi-pen, we need to make darn sure that their hand is on the epi-pen and we are "aiding" them in administering the drug as there are legal issues for me and licensing issues fro the RNs. 3) Threats of lawsuits are real even if frivolous. I had someone tell me I should sue the leader who pulled me out of the water for dislocating my shoulder prior to my surgery. There was someone who rescued a coworker from an auto accident who sued her for injuries. And while I think and hope this is a joke, I read about a lady suing her rescuer for rape because he touched her "inappropriately" to do CPR and was was giving mouth-to-mouth. 4) Nowadays, it is easier and cheaper to settle out of court than to defend yourself. A doctor in MS is the best case for that. He's Junior and in one specialty, while his deceased father, Senior, was an Ob-Gyn. One of Senior's patients decided to sue Junior, despite repeated attempts telling them Senior died. Long story short, Junior had to hire a lawyer, take time out of his practice, prepare for court, AD NAUSEUM, in order for the judge to dismiss the case within 30 minutes at trial. OH and expenses were out of pocket becuase Junior's malpractice insurance lawsuits from HIS patients, not just any malpractice lawsuit. 5) Even knowing all of the possible negative repercussions, and dealing with an injury resulting from an attempt to rescue someone, I would do it again in a heartbeat. I would expect someone to do everything they could to help out one of my kids, and I will do the same. I know I could not live with myself otherwise.

Hedge, I admit first aid in ITOLS is not enough. Heck IMHO even a basic AHA first aid course is not enough, and I teach those courses. Those courses are designed for urban environments with easy access to medical care. But basic first aid courses were not always that way. Especially FA MB. It taught skills that would be considered WFA. Back in the day, First Aid MB, or at least where I was taught, was outdoor based. it taught us how to recognize problems, and how to improvise using stuff found on a trail, on ourselves, and in a backpack. We learned the skills, then practiced on hikes with scenarios. Out of all my first aid classes over the years, it was the best one. In reading the BS WFA book ( http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsar-wilderness-first-aid-manual.html#.Vgh8YW7ig40) about 90% is what I was taught for FA MB. As for CPR, you are correct CPR certification is not needed for T-2-1. However, CPR is used for an unconscious choking victim which is a 2nd Class requirement. And being able to demonstrate CPR and AED usage is a FA MB requirement. IMHO certification is more CYA. BUT I also know that CPR changes every five years, Waiting to get back to work and find out what the new changes will be in 2016 and get my instructor update, as well as finding out when the new books come out. As for Epi-pens I don't know why they are not taught for T-2-1 or FA MB, especially since it seems as if more and more folks are developing allergies that require them. The only thing I can think for NOT teaching them is that it is a controlled substance requiring a prescription to obtain. And I bet some lawyers do NOT want "kids" administering them. That and in some jurisdictions, only the person who it is prescribed to can administer them, although you can help them out What I've found interesting is that techniques I was taught back in the day, went out of vogue, but are not coming back. And I too hope that you have "wasted" all of that money on training and supplies. But it's good that you are prepared for when things hit the fan. From multiple experiences as both a victim and responder, "Being Prepared" is key.

Had a chance to talk to to my friend, and he's good with me becoming SM, now it's time to talk to the CC/COR

Hedge nails it. Stabilize and call 911 is the current in basic first aid. When I helped teach/recertified a AHA first aid class in June, the only hands on stuff required was putting on gloves; bandaging, and one other item I can't remember. But it was either treating for shock, cut off finger, or epi pen. Yeh we do some extras in the class. What's interesting is that when I got injured in August, it was the leaders and the SPL that took care of me. Grant you we sent the scouts back to camp to cook. But those who took an AHA class probably could not treat me.

Unfortunately we too use email and FB to communicate. The issue we have is that not all of the Scouts have an email/FB account, so emails go out to both Scouts and parents. I admit part of the issue for me is not wanting to deal with the irate, first year parents. Instead of putting the blame for the lack of communication where it belongs, on their Scout, it gets placed on us leaders instead. In the past 2 years since I'm back involved on the Boy Scout level, only once did a parent recognize where the blame belonged. Also we have had times where Scouts said they were going on an activity, only at the last minute to be informed no they are not because the parents had something else planned. We also use a newsletter and calendar that's given to the Scouts and parents. But I question how many even read it.

Interesting. I wonder if they will allow alternate certifications to suffice, i.e. EMT, RN, PA, MD, DO, etc to qualify. My questions are the following: 1. IF this is the case, is it the result of outside agencies' first aid courses being little more than calling 911? 2. IF this is the case, will BSA revamp the First Aid requirements so that basic First Aid is spread out among the S-T-2-1 requirements, and First AID MB focuses on Wilderness First Aid? 3. IF this is the case, how are councils going to implement classes to aid volunteers in taking these classes? I've seen these classes in the $150+ range, and can tell you I cannot afford to take that class one time, let alone every two years.

FYI these are the types of uniforms in national BSA literature I've read about. Professional Uniform, and yes I wore my Eagle tie tac and some type of BSA lapel pin with it. Field Uniform depending upon program it can be Boy Scout, one of the 3 Sea Scout or 4 Sea Scout leader uniforms, Cub Scout, or Venturing uniform. Some people call the Class A Activity uniform. Currently the field uniform with a Scouting T-shirt or polo. From 1989- approx 1999, was khaki shorts with either a tan, red or maroon polo shirt. Sometimes called a Class B. Camp Uniform, This is in CS Day Camp NCS literature. Basically it's a CSDC shirt. Local Uniforms i've seen include Aquatics Staff, T-shirt and swim trunks. BSA did come out wiht official swim trunks at one time, and that camp used those once they came out. Other uniform was the COPE uniform. That one consisted of BDU trousers, and initially camp staff t-shirt, but when we got them, the COPE course t-shirt instead. Also included harness and brain bucket.

Part of the issue is not understanding boy lead. Especially parents. But the biggest challenge is CS leaders. You spend X number of years as a CS leader being trained to run meetings, trips, etc, Then become a BS leader and have to sit on your hands and let them do it. Very hard to transition. Or as Master Yoda would say, "you must unlearn what you have learned."

Yes the trasnistion from CS leader to BS leader is VERY HARD, even for those of us who know better. Why I kinda harp on the balencing between guiding and mentoring vs taking over. I did the taking over once before, way back when I was a brand new ASM. I was acting more like the SPL, and some of my friends who were youth started getting ticked off. Other leaders had to have a cup of coffee and worked with me. As for the questions, most are standard with me. The only coaching I do prior to a BOR is to tell them to relax, think, and take it easy. As an FYI Patrol meetings and other DAY (emphasis) activities do not require adults. Only overnight activities.

1) Please keep resposnes coming. I'm one of those who are not quick-witted when a new challenge comes about and need to think on it. So this forum is helping in planning. 2) What are some ways to not insult any of the current leadership when I present the ideas to improve the troop? Again the SM has done a fantastic job holding the troop together and keeping them active despite his health and lack of consistant adult help. My other friend who is suppose to take over has also done a great job inspiring the troop and workig with them when he could. After all, he was the one that inspired and motivated them to go to Philmont. I've briefly talked to the SM about taking over if need be. He doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Only comment was "I still want to be active." I responded "Yes, you're a valuable resource, but I don't want you to feel obligated to do everything. I am trying to meet with my friend to talk person to person with him about it before meeting the CC this Monday. But it's going to be a challenge since he gets married in 9 days, then on a Honeymoon. Yep, the CC is attending the Monday meeting to do 4 BORs. I was informed that I was still listed as a MC on the charter and that I need to be there to sit on 3 of them (Oldest is one of them!). So I am going to bring it up to him.

Don't go there. Anyone remember the official OA boxers at NOAC one year? Then again, I wish I had gotten the OA "Toothpick Holder" when I had the chance. Alas, they sold out by the time I got to the trading post.

You do things, sometimes repeat them adding to the expereince, as time contraints allow.