Eagle94-A1

I would be EXTREMELY leery about this. Sometimes that is all it takes. But most of the time it takes that PLUS mentoring. And I have seen cases where folks took the training, thought they knew better, and ignored any mentoring to get them up to speed. Kayn Hourbacker got it at 11. He joined at 10 years old, and did it in exactly 19 months. Then there is this girl at 12. I question how much they really know. I met one Eagle who got it at 13 that I can say knew their stuff. He was also pushed by his Eagle And Explorer Ranger Award dad ( OK I screwed up, I called the dad a Gold award recipient all these years because Ranger ended in 1949. But I recently found out that if you started it before 1949, you got to finish it until 1951.) Here is the deal though, he quit immediately after getting it. No HA trips, jamborees, OA, nothing.

Thanks for the updated stats. You are correct.. Don't ask about recruiting outside of school round ups and talks. We do them, and most boys interested in what we do are already in Scouts. And those troop are catching on to focusing on adventure, not advancement. I have recruited more girls for the girls troop. One Girl Scout said she wished her GSUSA troop would do some of the stuff we do. When I mentioned the girls troop she said, " My mom would kill me. She works for the Girl Scouts."

Depends upon circumstances. My unit follows the program, retains Scouts, even long after they earn Eagle in some cases. We have an active program that the Scouts pick. Adults do not force them to do an activity they do not want to do. But we have no feeder pack, and have not in at least 15 years. Troop always had transfers into it. Out of the 7 on my charter, 5 transferred from other troops, and 1 had his older brothers transfer into it. And the troop has survived by having an active, Scout-led program since before I transferred 7 years ago. I cannot find the stat now, but last time I checked 90+% of Scouts move up from Cub Scouts. And usually troops die within 6 years of packs folding. The other troop without a pack has not had one in 5 years, and they may be folding. The 2 troops with packs have wised up, and started imitating us. Not only do they jealously guard their Cub Scout packs, they are now retaining their Scouts. One of those troops, is the one I transferred from. I almost had 1/2 the troop transfer with me, until the COR stepped in. And in my neck of the woods, lack of Cub Scout recruiting is the #1 reason units are folding.

You do know that the research for "OPERATION FIRST CLASS," "First Class, First Year," or whatever it is called now is deeply flawed? The research was done in the 1980s, and the idea came out in August 1989. That's when they did away with Skill Awards, time requirements for Tenderfoor, Second Class, and First Class, and went from "Master the Skills," to "The Badge represents what a Scout CAN DO (SIC), not what he has done." mentality which IMHO leads to "One and Done." Research showed that Scouts who got First Class in 18 months stay around longer, which is true. BUT what was not included in the stats was 2 things: 1.How active a unit is and 2. LDS units. The more active a troop is, doing the activities the Scouts want to do, will lead to retention. Yes advancement is slower, but those Scouts stick around longer. Best example is my soon to be 21 y.o. ASM. He spent 4 years working on First Class as the swimming requirement was the issue. But the troop dis activities he liked, and he stuck around. He eventually passed the swim test, and earned Eagle. He has stuck around as much as possible while in college. And all of my Eagles have stuck around until 18, or until they started college. Why? Because we are active and do the activities they want to do. But the surveyors dis not show how active a troop was in their results. The LDS units would segregate their 11 year old Scouts. I have seen lesson plans where the 11 year old patrol would repeat the same program every year. They were treated as if they were still Cub Scouts, with an ASM serving more as a DL, and TGs acting more like den chiefs. Their program guaranteed them First Class in one year. One reason why LDS units got upset when the Camping requirement for First Class went from 4 camp outs to 6 campouts in 2016: their 11 year olds were not allowed to camp more than 4 times /year. And their protest changed it back to 4 (aside this ticked off my middle son as he had to wait 2 months to get the 6 campouts in, and right as he goes for his First Class BOR, National changed it back to 4. He was ticked off) And since the LDS used Scouting as their youth program, ALL (emphasis) males were registered in their troops, whether they were active or not. That skewed the data. So do not take the First Class, First Year to seriously. If you push it, you will have Scouts get bored, note care, leave, or stick around long enough to get Eagle and then quit. I have seen this happen with a lot over the years.

That is pretty much what happened in the UK when their program went coed. Sure you could have all male, all female, and coed troops. But over time the all the single gender units died out any only all female exist today. Or so I am told.

He said next year, but if the word has not happened yet, it may be 2027 before going into effect since many crews are already set.

My source said no. All 4 adults must have WFA when it goes into effect.

To quote the grandfather in The Princess Bride, "Wait, just wait." I was informed that the number of adults will soon be 4. Apparently the number of adults not qualifying at check in, or needing evac on the trek is over 1/3. One of my Scouters plans on staffing next year, and that is what he was told.

Had a good conversation with our COR last nite. Helps he is also a former SM and knows all the challenges I face in that role. We are on the verge of folding. He know it, our adults know it, and the Scouts may know it. We need one more Scout in order to recharter, and we are going full throttle on recruiting. Our DE says they can help us get into the schools. I hope that is true and he follows through, but the council's record on that is poor. But as Gandalf the White said, " There is always hope, a fool's hope." We will be doing our annual fundraiser as if we will be rechartering. Goal is to raise enough money to pay national and council fees, and summer camp. We will continue Scouting on. Back up plan is if the troop does not recharter, pay for everyone's, both adults and youth, registration and council fees, pay for summer camp, and save the rest to restart the troop at a later date. I am sticking around as SM until December 2026. I have idea on someone to replace me, but want to get them up to speed.

Since September/October 2018, ALL (major emphasis) Scouting activities, including patrol day activities, requires 2 registered adults over 21. They tried to make it go into effect in March, but a lot of units with summer camp and HA plans with only 1 adult over 21 and 1 adult over 18 pushed back on it. One of the few times National listened to their volunteers. But I bet all those units wanting refunds was why.

Hopefully the donors, or their trustees/descendants, will not sign over deeds outright. We had that happen, and the camp got sold. And not a thing we could do about it to stop the sale.

As I have mentioned, I have been around NSPs since they were an experiment. Every time the NSP has been tried with a troop I was involved in, it either exhausted the TG, or it turned into Webelos 3 with adults interfering. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. (major emphasis). And every single troop has gone to Traditional Patrols. Including the troop that had one NSP that could keep up with the older Scouts because the initial group began the transition in 4th grade. That was the closest to a successful NSP. The problem came when the other pack crossed over their Scouts, and they were not ready at all. They did not focus on transition until 1 month before AOL and Cross Over ceremonies.

When has BSA in recent history ever not allowed a pilot program go all out? This decision has been made by the pros, and I bet Oct. is the next time the volunteers meet to rubber stamp the decision.

In 1989 when aged based patrols became the recommendation instead of Traditional, mixed aged patrols, that was the beginning of fall of the Patrol Method. In 2012, when they no longer allowed patrols to camp on their own without adult supervision, that furthered the fall. In 2018 when they no longer allowed patrols to have any day activities, i.e. patrol meetings, hikes, camp shopping etc, unless 2 registered adults over the age of 21, that nailed the coffin shut IMHO.

I was involved at the district and council levels for a very long time in several capacities, sometime 2 at the same time. I also servedwith a pack and district committee at the same time. I had to step back from district and council roles when oldest joined a troop, and I was with the pack and the troop. Even then I got Shanghaied onto the district committee when at a RT I was told I was running camporee with 2 months notice. So I did 14 months in that role and ran 2 camporees. But the pros caused a lot of problems. You can read about them in other threads. While "the council is the volunteers," the professionals, through their actions, can tick off the volunteers. Ticking off volunteers will lead to not having any volunteers to help on the district or council level.

I have stepped back from all council and district positions to focus on the troop. What ticks me off is that I had done so much to help the council in the past when I was able, but now when I need help because I an not able, I am on my own. On another note, this past weekend will probably be the last weekend when all my registered Scouts, "adult participants," and 20 y.o. ASM got together and had a blast. One final campout before school and college starts up.

I think my time in Scouting is coming to a close. Troop is fighting to survive another year. Wife is hoping it doesn't. She says I have given so much to the program that the changes in the program are affecting me. Plus the lack of support from the council. She says I need to reclaim my time. and she may be right.

Sadly I have been to a camp where they gave away MBs. For example, Scouts receiving Basketry MB without doing all projects, folks receiving aquatics MBs with actually being able to do the skills. and I can go on. And you feedback to improve the camp is ignored.

I thought an Eagle project could not benefit Scouting?

Actually that has been the rule, Cubs can only do shooting sports at district/council events, since I was a Cub in the 1980s.

Be advised, the max weight allowed for HA is also the maxed weight civilian med evac helicopters have. Too bad the HH-47 Pedro are no longer active.

word of mouth is how we recruit since we do not have a Cub pack. Everyone has either transferred from a unit they did not fit in with, or had a friend in the troop. Problem is instead of helping existing units survive, council is focused on starting new units. T-shirt is a good idea. Since buying custom shirts is cost prohibitive with such a small number, troop purchased everyone a Camp Cherokee T shirt. as for taking a break, tha will happen in September with band season hits. We will meet, and possibly do some fundraising. Next month is a white water trip,

Thanks folks. I am at camp, Cherokee Scout Reservation in NC, and am exhausted and sweaty. But also in a much better morale situation. So I am just getting a chance to read and respond. They are now aware. Sad thing is there are units in worse shape in the district. We are considered “healthy.” . We were able to get a second leaser. And physical he paid for. going Provo was going to be my emergency plan c.

National's computer system use a 4 digit code for units. if memory serves if the starting number is 3 is the national code for Cubs; 0 is the national code for boy troops, 5 is the national code for Ships, and 6 is for Crews. I do not think there was a national consensus for girl troops as in my area 7 designates girl troops.

One of the things that set this sentiment off yesterday, is I got a call from our 2nd summer camp adult asking if it was possible to either get a replacement, and when I told him that might not be possible, or only come for half a week. Guy has known for several months that it was just going to be me and him, and was reminded a few weeks ago. While his physical states he has no limitations, he didn't tell his MD he was going to summer camp. And with the issues he is having, he should not be going to camp at all IMHO. I may have a replacement, pending getting registered. But to do that, the troop is paying his registration fee, normally adults and scouts are responsible with fundraising paying for supplies and camp outs. And I am paying for his physical at an immediate care since he cannot see his PCP before we leave Sunday. This made me realize that without adequate adult support, we cannot have the program the Scouts want. They want to go whitewater rafting. They want to go backpacking. They want the adventure. But If we cannot get 2 adults over 21 to do them, is it worth keeping the troop alive to say we are alive? I do not think so. After summer camp, I want to meet with our COR. past SM, and if he is willing the CC (CC is ticked off at a decision I made. Stated he will no longer go camping with the troop, and has not been to any meetings, including one where 2 BORs were being held). Topic will be to fold the troop. I know the immediate SM's response ( whatever you decide I am fine with) and the CC's response ( Hell no we are not folding). But I want the COR involved in this, and to come up with a plan either way. The point may be moot anyway if we do not get a 5th Scout before December.