Eagle94-A1

While the two links may not be political, have you read the comments at them? Also there are other websites picking up the news and are making a big political statement out of it. a lot of folks do not like the BSA, and think the membership standards should change again to include girls, without making a similar demand of GSUSA. I'll be honest, I have mixed emotions on this. One one hand, I've seen sisters do the meetings and activities with their brothers as Cub Scouts is Family oriented. They just couldn't earn the awards. And I have been a Sea Explorer, and an Explorer and Venturing leader, so I know co-ed can work. Plus I saw it in action overseas. But I know from personal experience how stupid teenage and 20 something males can be when girls are around. I saw it with some of the youth leaders at summer camp. I saw it with my friends. And hey, I admit, I traded my belt with Skill Awards on it for British neckerchief because the female Scout was extremely cute Plus I saw it with a fellow service crew member, who was so stupid in regards to one female leader, that her troop got involved. yep they invited him to dinner one nite, tied him to the chair, put clown make up to emphasize he was acting like one, and shaved his legs in verticle and horizontal stripes just before the big rugby match. So I kinda like having an all male environment for my boys. As someone posted in another thread, I see this happening in the next few years. IMHO, I believe the Girl Scouts will be taking a very serious hit and will complain and protest. Just like they did in the 70s from the anecdotes I heard when BSA was thinking about becoming Scouting USA, and whenthe BSA wanted to come out with BSA Energy Bars. Yep the Girl Scouts threatened to sue the BSA if they came out with energy bars because it was too close to their cookies.

So when will the Girl Scouts accept cisgendered males into their organization? Seriously though, if the parents wanted the same activities for thei daughters', then why not voltunteer to be a leader and take them camping?

One more question, who buys the POR patches for your unit: each Scout or the unit? Growing up, the troop did a ceremony and issued the POR patches. If you already had the POR patch, you were expected to reuse it. Here, it seems the Scouts are expected to get their patches. It can be challenging for some since the nearest Scouting distributer is about 45 minutes in one direction.

Kinda. Girls can't officially be Cub Scouts, but they can camp and do the activities with their siblings. Cub Scouts is family camping, and there was a VERY big bruhaha when the planners for one major event didn't take into account of the family camping fact of Cub Scouts, and didn't anticipate the sisters who accompanied their brothers to the event.

I agree with you, decisions should be on the local level. However, I;m betting national is getting involved because of some of the things done at the local level. I've personally seen 1 district advancement chairman (DAC) try to refuse a Scout his Eagle because he didn't personally approve the service project. Project was approved by the DAC at the time and completed prior to the BOR DAC even became a leader. Only a threat of an appeal was able to get me Eagle. On the opposite extreme, I saw one man who was not granted his Eagle by the EBOR, and did appeal it to national. National granted the appeal saying they would not penalize the Scout for something his leaders did. And that resulted in the entire district advancement committee resigning in protest. Hate to say it, but after meeting the young man, I could see why the EBOR denied it, and why the committee resigned.

Mess is an understatement. I think one new leader said "fiasco." But the Scouts elected their SPL and PLs and have to live with it. Forgot to add, Only the Troop Guide position was appointed last nite. That's becasue the NSP needed MAJOR help preparing for the upcoming camp out.

Ok, just curious how does your unit conduct unit elections? Specifically do you allow folks to nominate themselves for the positions, or must they be nominated by someone else? I ask because I witnessed my son's troop elections for the first, and it was "interesting." Folks could not nominate themselves, they had to be nominated by someone else. In some cases those nominated didn't want the job, but felt pressure or obligated to run anyway. In other cases some who were nominated, felt obligated to nominate the person who nominated them. Long election. Then, when the SPL and PLs were elected, nominations for the various appointed positions occurred. repeat of the above except no voting, and final decision was not made that night, nor the following week. I am hoping the SPL and SM, as well as the PLs and SM, talk this week to get the appointments made. Apparently last time all the appointments were made by the SM, and that didn't work out. See I'm used to the following when doing unit elections. 1) If you wanted to change patrols, here's your chance. Exception: those who were voted into the Leadership Corps. The LC members voted on who joined them. And there were requirements, specificallly had to be a PL for a least a term, usually 2+ terms 2) Once patrols were reformed, PLs elected. PLs then appointed their APLs. Normally there wasn't a lot of moving about and PLs would usually be reelected. Occasionally a PL would not get reelected, but more often they moved up to the Leadership Corps after their second term. Exception to this was the LC again. Their PL was appointed. more below. 3) Once the patrols were formed, vote on SPL. Since we were an established troop with a cadre of older Scouts in the LC usually it was LC members running. However anyone who was First Class and was a PL for a term could run. First Class because they had mastered all the basic Scout Skills. Been a PL because they needed the leadership expereince as well as an idea on what the PLs were facing. My recollection is that only 1 former PL ran for SPL without being in the LC for 6 months. he just moved up to the LC, and was encouraged by his patrol to run for SPL. 4) SPL talked to the LC members about who wanted to do what, and got SM's approval for his appointments. I don't recall anyone ever being denied by the SM. Since the ASPL is responsible for the QM, Instructiors, etc, the ASPL was de facto PL of the Leadership Corps. SOOOOOO How does your troop do it.

PLs #1 and #3 were teaching knots, with a few others one nite, then another nite they had their Tenderfoot BORs. Unfortunately PL#2 is in a situation that if dad doesn't have him the nite of a meeting, mom won't bring him. So he only comes every other week. Not a good situation.

Update: still waiting to hear form the troop committee about my offer. No worries though. I'm there for the Scouts no matter what. HOWEVER I'd love to strangle the SPL at the moment I've been workign with him for a while now. I've given him some advice,gave an example of how a meeting should look like when he asked for help with backpacking, talked about planning and communication, etc. For the past month, the meetings were supposed to focused on T-2-1 Scoutcraft skills, and instead have focused solely on knot tying. It's driving some of the scouts nuts. I talked to him last week, suggested doing other things besides knots, and offered to bring some supplies I had to help him with the meeting. No response. I brought the stuff just in case. Glad I did because he he wanted to do knots again! Some of the Scouts saw what I bought and asked if they could work on that instead. When asked what the plans were for the upcoming trip, he said he hadn't made any since he wasn't going. Long story short, I had a discussion with him and the acting SPL this weekend, then sent them and the other adults an email with some suggestions and links to ideas on how to have fun, while working on advancement. Chatting with a friend who wasn't at the meeting that nite, he said the older Scouts are so use to the SM telling them what to do, that when they have the freedom, they don't know what to do. It's a slow frustrating change. Funny thing is, the adults, even the old SM is on board with them taking over. It's the Scouts who seem to not want to take over.

Yes, National asked ALPS Mountaineering to change the program's name. I'm registered for the program, and got an email about the name change when it occured. I love ALPS!

Small groups of 6-10 Scouts that get together ON THEIR OWN, select their own patrol leader, and work together as a team. They work, and play, together; help each other out, encourage and teach each other. They can do their own day activities on their own.

Once upon a time, there was a backpacking WB; one of my good friends took it and loved it. It was at Philmont. I believe there was also a canoeing done at N Tier or Land Between the Lakes, when it was a national HA base.

@@Hedgehog, If my original post sounded harsh, I apologize as that was not the case. I think those topics ARE needed for new leaders with with little to no expereince. I know some of those topics have been taught at UoS locally. My concern is that back in the day, it was expected that First Class Scouts had the knowledge, skills, and abilities in those topics and could teach those courses. Sadly, I am seeing more and more "one and done" Scouts. My son's troop is not perfect. there are things I'd like to change, and some things that need to change. But one thing I like is that they haven't emphasized advancement until very recently. The focus was on outdoor adventure and fun. It's only with Philmont and the requirement changes next year that everyone has gotten a swift kick in the but to talk to the SM and get signed off. NOW one thing I'd like to change in regards to advancement, besides having PLs and other youth sign off on T-2-1 requirements ( don't ask), is what has been called "stealth advancement." When you see the scouts doing something, going ahead and signing off right then and there. I don't think you need to wait for the Scout to ask you to sign off. If you see them do it, get it done.

I actually got in trouble when I was a DE because I camped a lot. In addition to district and council camporees, I did OA events and IOLS training, or whatever the outdoor portion was called at the time. But I was single at that point. Like ProScouter06 above, once you start spending 12 to 16 hour days, longer if you are assigned summer camp duties, you need time to away from Scouting. Especially if you have family. BUT there are pro's out there who care and go above and beyond. I have a picture to prove Hell froze over because a SE was in work clothes and actually doing cheerful service at an OA event. Blew a lot of people's minds.

In the 20 months I worked as a DE, 9 of my coworkers quit, most within 9 - 12 months of starting (one after 3 weeks via phone from the emergency room when the DFS told him to leave against medical advice and come to work), a finance director quit within a year, and a field director with 7-10 years in the council. One district had 4 DEs within 21 months. After I left, my immediate replacement left within 3 months, and when they found a DE to replace him, he left after a year due to a nervous breakdown. Things got a lot better when the SE and DFS left. The FD who came about about a month before I left actually stayed around 5 years. When I came back to the area, he was getting promoted to DFS.

SCOUTNET will automatically drop a leader once YPT is expired. ALSO I am told, repeat TOLD do not know for a fact, that if someone's YPT will expire in the upcoming charter year, it will drop that individual from the recharter process. HOWEVER once they go online and do YPT, the name will reappear on the online rechartering process. NOW I got an email stating that my YPT will expire soon and that I would need to redo it in order to recharter.

@@JoeBob, How about this. Only what is in their pockets and a survival kit. Make them stay at the amnesty blanket for a while until contraband is given up. give them a series of bearings, compass or general 4 points, and instead of a marker, they get items for the weekend:, tarp, rope, garbage bags, cans of food, water, etc.

@@ProScouter06, Welcome back from the Dark Side.

Well last nite was interesting. We had two, unannounced visitors. One was a Webelos, the other was a Scout looking for a new troop. Bad news was that things got changed on us by the CO at the last minute. Long story short, we had to do an impromptu service project for the church. I'm very happy we did it because the troop needed to do something to thank the church. We eventually got around to patrol corners and the work that really needed to be done for the camp out. Good news is that the transferring Scout likes the fact that we camp 10 months of the year, do a lock in 1 month, and do summer camp the last month.

As a former professional, I can sympathize greatly with local pros. It is a tough, demanding job. I've seen too many pros sacrifice their families and health. I've had friends and coworkers have mental breakdowns and other stress related health issues because of the job. I have had friends get divorced because of the time away from their families. I was fortunate in that my wife of 2 months gave me an ultimatum. Several of my friends had wives either walk out on them, or kick them out. Worse one was my friend who put his wife through law school, then was served divorce papers by her after her graduation ceremony! The disdain and animosity towards professionals, at least for me, comes down to two things. First and foremost are those that lose the vision of Scouting, and it becomes a job for them. They do whatever it takes, including some questionable stuff to put it mildly, in order to meet their Far Exceeds goals, or be #1 in their division. I'd rather have a solid, attractive program every year, than a great recruiting or FOS year, but have a lousy program and lose donors and members after the stellar year. The other problem pros IMHO are the ones who were either not involved in Scouting prior to being a professional, or have moved so far away from the boots on the ground, that they no longer know what it is like at the unit service level. One boss I had was never in Boy Scouts or Exploring. Had no idea what it was like, and how camp operations were like. Zero experience whatsoever. I was hired because I had 4 seasons of summer camp staffing at 4 different camps. Freaked out when she read my proposed SOP manual for camp operations. Questioned every single point in it, and would not listen to anything I would say. And didn't even stay at camp to see how things were done once we started, she just assumed. Only when she worked Jambo did she realize how she screwed up stuff. And when volunteers see stuff like Department of Labor laws for businesses being applied to Scouting, you do question the sanity of those in Irving. Heck my Bears, when the DOL rules were incorporated into the G2SS, thought I was joking when I said they couldn't use their little red wagons for a service project. And off course there is going to be push back when the folks in Irving, farm removed from the unit level apparently, try to mandate having trained leaders redo basic training every time the course changes. It took me 18 months to get trained, and that was only with me involved with a troop and going to college. Nowadays I have 3 district level PORs, serve as an ASM with a troop, serve as pack MC, plus have a job and family. Yet training I had and have applied all these years is no longer valid because the name changed? To quote one long term volunteer on this topic, "I've forgotten more about Scouting than you've ever learned, and I still know more than you do!" And the volunteer did! For a more humorous digression http://www.buzzfeed.com/bsastaffer/truths-about-being-a-professional-scouter-j3wp

You'd be surprised. First time we did any type of backpacking was essentially plop camping. Only a few of the Scouts have backpacks, mostly those going to Philmont, So the troop plopped it. HOWEVER, all meals had to be backpacking meals and only stoves if used were backpacking stoves.Anyone going to Philmont had take down camp, and backpack the trail, while the others worked on hiking requirements.

I can see this for new leaders, but Star Scouts? They should have had these topics covered already. I know T-2-1 requirements covers all of these topics, and cannot see how a one day course can expand those skills. MONTHLY CAMPING (emphasis) is the way to do it. HOWEVER, if the course is designed to help the Scouts TEACH these skills at the troop level, I'm good. BUT it better be hands on.

I hear ya. I lucked out with mine First one I earned upon completing Brownsea 22, as that was the recognition as well as a patch. The council issued US GI surplus hats to those that graduated. That one went through 1 hurricane, numerous camp outs, being shot at by German Scouts, etc. I did buy a BSA chinstrap, but use a British Scout Association's hatband that is branded with the camps I worked at over there, and a plume I got at BP House. Second one issued to the "youth" staff who worked JLTC. It was number of years after my BA22 course that the council did JLTC. At 20, I was a "youth" and SPL. I was also the only person to have done BA22 or JLTC on staff. Council reintroduced the Smokeys upon completing JLTC, and since none of the youth staff had Smokeys already, and mine was "experienced" They issued us ones to wear. Again US GI surplus hat with Scout Association branded hatband and BSA chin strap. However, I gave my BP House plume away, and now wear a 2007 Century Anniversary plume.