blw2

Sorry, don't have any more to add, except a side story this reminds me of my last semester in college. I only had a few hours remaining to earn my engineering degree. One of the missing requirements was a humanities elective. I picked "World Religions", for exactly the reasons you describe about your son. I had been raised protestant/Baptist, and really didn't know much at all about any other religion or even the denominations.... So I figured it might be a good way to learn just a bit about Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Jews, Buddhists, and the rest.... I was on part time status with only a couple classes left, so I figured it would be easy and eye opening. Well let me tell you, that was by far the hardest course I took in college. I was used to some fairly rigorous classes, being an engineering major , but in engineering there is a right and wrong answer. 2+2 does not equal 3. Turned out not to be what I was looking for. It was really more about WHY people have religion, and there was a lot of stuff like...."read the following parable, and write a paragraph about what it means to you." So I would do just that, give it some serious thought, and write a paragraph. And I would get a "C", or a "D" or worse! Ugh, that was frustrating, and really brought down my GPA too! How could that be a "D", I did what he said to do?!?!? Anyway, I hope your son finds what he's looking for.

I think the first paragraph of BP's chapter on troop size is a good thing to re-read as a refresh.... http://scoutmastercg.com/aids-scoutmastership/#One Reason Why a Troop Should not Exceed Thirty Two Now, considering that a GS "Troop" is typically treated more of what BP and we BSA folks would call a patrol, this is an important follow-up..... http://scoutmastercg.com/aids-scoutmastership/#The Patrol System Based on my limited observations, it seems that most BSA units are much more open and inviting as compared with GS units. GS units seem to tend leaning towards tight clicks of friends and are a bit more exclusive....like a pillar unto itself. I don't mean any of that as a knock.....in fact it seems to be a good system, in terms of "Patrol Spirit" anyway. It fits into what BP called the gang of boys..... described more or less as a group of tight friends that stick together.... Meanwhile, it seems like the typical BSA inclusiveness, while a great ideal to aspire to, is a culture that conflicts with practical limitations of group size sometimes....

yep, so true...... and in addition, it's not up to scouters or troops to do the punishing. Nope, not one bit. That's a job for parents (or the 'law')

At the pack level, we do a recruiting push through the parish's school every fall. well actually the DE or designee gets in and does it. They visit the classes, and paint this picture that I outlined before..... shooting bb guns, archery, etc.... every weekend. They do the same at the government schools around too. We haven't done much with it, but schools usually have a PTO open house night, and some units set up tables for that....I've seen mostly Girl Scout units doing it. You could do it at school fall festivals, thanksgiving events, etc. too, I suppose. It's the misunderstanding of shooting BB guns and the like every weekend that gets them in the door. Personally though, i think the biggest untapped asset could be the current scouts and word of mouth. Focus on putting on a really fun program and the word will get out. but the sad part is, the program as it is is a lot of sitting in classrooms and listening.... scouts have fun here and there mixed in, but doesn't really inspire them to spread the word.... just my 2 cents..... focus on the program.

As I read your pos, @ meyer13 I'm thinking these are two very different events. Your activity event is more like what a unit might do if inviting a group to a "Troop Meeting" a fun evening....sorta like what a troop might do for a visiting WEBELOS den. What i was describing, is really more of a information gathering and get the application done thing..... where a prospective scout and parent might only be in the room 10-15 minutes, or even less.... It's not meant to be a dragged out time sapping thing.... just to get them signed up and coming to the first meeting. And while it takes more than your 1 or 2 adults, it doesn't take many. In fact some might not even be registered scouters..... just positive energy parents would do. You cold even have a couple WEBELOS or scouts form the troop manning the welcome table for example..... or the table answering questions about the pack. In my thinking, both ideas compliment each other in a way. The sign-up night gets them to the 1st meeting. Then the first meeting could be your fun carnival with the whole pack. A great start-the-year kind of meeting

Be sure to promise things like lots of BB gun shooting, archery at every meeting, camping in the local NFL stadium and watching movies on the jumbo-tron..... make it seem like this stuff is done every weekend..... you'll have great success at recruiting.... this is what our council staff did during their school visits when I was CM. Recruiting was great, retention.... well you didn't ask about that..... OK, sarcasm off now. A couple years ago, I was gearing up to change our "Round-Up" AWAY from a formal presentation format. Interestingly enough, that same year our district (or maybe it was council) went the same way with their training. I wish i could take credit, but I think it was just a case of great minds thinking alike! They really developed the idea much more than I could have on my own So, we used to have a set night, place, and time..... folks would gather in auditorium style, while the CM would wag his jaw for a while. We toyed with some sideshow activities and what not. It was just a painful event. It was called "Round-Up Night" We went to more of a tradeshow or job fair format.....with the event running in a time slot, not starting at a particular time. Folks would come in whenever they got there, go to table 1, table 2, etc.... very conversational style, and leave when they were done.... I forget the sequence they came up with, but the various tables had scouts and/or leaders with a particular job, and no more than the one adult or a couple scouts per table I don't remember specifics or order, but maybe 4 or 5 tables, something like this welcome / introduction / tell them about the format of the evening talk with them them about the unit talk with them about the calendar meet their den leader (depending on their age of course) help them fill out the application, and someone there to collect money They didn't want a lot of folks there from the unit, just enough unit adults for the jobs, and no more, and not the whole pack of scouts. too many adults or scouts they found would be intimidating the Cub Master would be roaming the floor and available for questions, and the CM was the ONLY one in uniform (the theory being prospective scouts feel out of place, like they are the only ones without the uniform) I had trouble with this idea, but ultimately see that it makes some sense. The one thing, maybe the only thing, I did not like was they were strict about a rule saying they only wanted us to collect the BSA national dues. They didn't want us collecting the pack dues or fees. didn't want to make it so much about money, and sticker shock I suppose. They changed the name to "Sign Up Night"

I was going to suggest to stay away from sisal or jute twine. while cheap and sufficient for the task, I find it difficult to work with, impossible to untie, nearly impossible to coil, and just plain frustrating. Not the kind of thing you want to put a young scout through, who is trying to learn a new knot. But that being said, I think it a great idea to have a pretty good variety of different types of line, and sizes too.... so that the scouts can try out and learn the differences. Personally, I don't like working with twisted lines, manila, or poly..... and I prefer a smooth braided nylon for practicing most knots 550 cord (and similar) makes nice practice cordage in my opinion

well I would argue in this case, that the BOR most certainly IS part of the GAME As is the 5 mile hike they went on last weekend. and the canoe trip etc.... and if I were to run with your analogy, in my thinking the routine troop meeting would fall more in line with the "backstage" work.... not saying I agree or disagree, just running with the logic exercise.....

exactly! or even they can drive 10 minutes to one event but not 10 minutes to another event. IMHO, if they are licensed by the state, they should be able to drive under whatever limitations or privileges apply to said license. I get that a carload of teenagers might be more apt to horse around, but that is another issue. Hey, i wonder what they would say about a flight permit for an outing to be piloted by a freshly minted 17 year old FAA licensed private pilot scout?

this has the makings of a funny skit

say what??? do I have this right..... so under those specific criteria (6 mos experience, no accidents, etc..), a 16 year old scout can drive other scouts to an area, regional, or national event...... BUT that same scout cannot be a driver to a unit event???? what is an "area event" anyway?

Yeah Eagle94, I figured it went something like that....actually I knew the bit about Tiger not being part of the pack.... The bit about the oval WEBELOS badge fits right in with my thinking that really, what does it matter?..... let them leave it on till it's replaced with Scout. Who cares? It shouldn't be all taht long after joining the troop that it would go, anyway, right?

re-reading this old post.... qwazse I think missed my point... why would they offer both the diamond rank badge AND the oval rank badge, for the SAME rank? It still strikes me that to someone and at some point along the line, somebody must have intended this to be some sort of transitional thing, given that the rank patch is the same size, shape, smell, taste, and feel, as the Scout ranks Honestly, that whole rank patch thing to me smells like there were three parallel schools of thought happening and the folks weren't talking with each other. .... I mean if a scout were to opt for the diamond WEBELOS rank badge, where does it go in the diamond on his Cub uniform? Why Does the newly minted WEBELOS remove his Tiger? that just doesn't make any sense.....

personally, I'd leave it to the scouts to decide and present. It really makes not a hill of beans difference in the big scheme of things.... I'll bet officially, it's registered time, but "honorary" time would work for me....

I enjoyed seeing that. thanks for posting!

We had a recent scout suicide in these parts. Not anyone I know, but have reason to think that his dad was a very involved scouter. Not sure, but someone thought the scout may have been SPL, either now or sometime in the past.... I have no idea about his story, adult lead or not, etc ....I really know nothing.... So anyway, because of this I was only just recently thinking about this very issue..... scouting and mental health......and wondering what harm is done on occasion.... I was thinking that scouting would typically give a young man better grounding, support, and so on.... to deal with stuff outside of scouts....but scouting might also add pressures and problems too. just thinking out loud such as adult lead issues squashing the fun and adding pressure.... can't drive till Eagle, and so on....

I broke down last year and bought some non-BSA long pants. So far have only worn them once with the uniform. Something I was opposed to doing, but I really don't care for the zip off legs and they don't even offer a cargo pocket pant that's not convertible..... really!

Hmmm... I wonder if this has anything to do with the 1 day IOLS IOWL, with optional camping.... I saw on the calendar the other day. I thought it looked a bit fishy. I'm looking for an opportunity to take IOLS, and the one day honestly appealed to me. I'm not a fan of dumbing down training.... but at the same time I am a huge fan of making it right and being smart about it. I'll use BALOO as an example. The one I sat through was a complete clock burner. I learned nothing new and I realized no real benefit from the day I gave up for it. The only thing remotely "interesting" was the heated discussion about trip plan (tour and activity). My hope is that IOLS will be at least a little more fun, like hanging out & camping with friends.... & My hope is that I'll learn some stuff, as i no doubt always have a lot to learn..... it's just that these things usually seem to be more about non-stop pressure to check off boxes, instead of testing or imparting any real knowledge or tips that I don't already know.

I've gone cross district before... a few times, for training and also for camping events. One time, went to a neighboring district's fall campout (SpookoRee), instead of ours (CuboRee) Well SpookORee was 10x better, but the following year we were excluded. Excuse being that the were camping at a different council reservation that didn't have as much room..... and they needed to save the room for their district "first" I can imagine you could potentially run into such a thing, but since you are talking one scout and not a whole pack or troop, 'll bet it would rarely hit anyone's radar.

Yeah, this is honestly giving me flashback to cub scouts, trying to come up with an event plan..... I can imagine throwing something like this to the PLC, and let them come up with something. Doesn't have to be on the spot in one meeting..... throw it out there, with a date in the future so they can think about it, research, and work as a team.... I do like the idea of the SM's coming up with one big event for them as a surprise.... just a little bit.

I was gonna say..... but you beat me to it! The higher level of cert thing is for sure a sticky wicket

making Scouting even more relevant as a growth and experience tool, in at least that regard. As a kid even, I always hated sitting through some basic introductory lesson that I already knew about. I remember a lot of that in scouts.... and as a Scouter I'm still seeing it often too.... At least it finally becomes an interesting and maybe fun activity if it's the first time they've done it!

Once again, I'm in agreement with you @@Stosh. I'd have to think it through a bit more....but if I were SM, I think i would make it simple. A scout can sign off on anything he himself has been signed off on previously..... as long as he is comfortable in doing so. With the exception that if the signer didn't feel himself proficient in a skill (as in he hasn't practiced in two years and feels fuzzy) If he missed the camping trip he wouldn't know if that other scout slept in the tent he helped put up.... so he wouldn't sign off on that one. BUT the one thing about this example that troubles me is that it should not really matter in this case if the signer had previously been signed off on sleeping in a tent....or if he outranked him.... It's not a skill really....more like just being a witness in that case. Going back to what I posted originally, this seems a point of confusion, & I'll bet that a high number of scouts are not really overly clear on where these lines are drawn. It's not really a hard concept really....one that should be clearly identified in the handbook for each point of the requirements (maybe by color code or some such thing)..... indicating who are the potential signers for this one! Why leave it up to discussion???

Yeah, I just found out that it seems the camp our adults were steering to is where they will be going next summer.... another one 9 hours or so away.... I'm the first to agree that I prefer tent camping in cooler weather than we have in FL in the summer, but at the same time I do wish that folks would see value in stuff a bit more "local" and simple.... simple being a much shorter drive, easier for folks to get to all around, less drama, less of a big deal.

oh, that's good....patrol based activities.... a bullet point I'll use for sure!