blw2

if i'm reading you correctly, I'm thinking you are flowing along the same logic lines as me. 1st would come the PLC (well actually they would be coming together with input from the scouts they represent) then the committee meeting (to approve budgets, general course, etc...) then the planning meeting where they figure out the details. it would be a bit chaotic maybe, and might require more back and forth becuase things that were proposed won't work.... but it beats "telling the scouts where we are going..."

I should preface, i was just suffering form lack of motivation yesterday.... it's not ALL bad.... Exactly! I have brought that up now, well basically that "polite" statement but in my own words.... a few times, and again last night when they were planning out all the fundraising we should do and which adult is going to make it happen. They really do have that tendency to treat it like a cub pack.... But again, it's not all bad.... it's all well intentioned, and the SM has a good vision, even if he's easing into it slower than i would like... Really the meeting was just a wakeup mostly, to review where we are and to get everyone back on the hymn book...

Our troop takes a break after summer camp, so things have been idle for a bit preparing for the 1st committee mtg tonight, soon followed by a planning meeting then the 1st PLC then a meeting, followed by elections Don't want to be a backseat driver, but I want to ask them how can we plan without having input from the PLC..... and how can the PLC do any planning without input from their scouts? ugh, my heart is just not in it and I have this urge to just "stay in bed"

yeah, i see Beavah's point.... but I'm with Stosh on this one maybe thinking that IF it's a group like that with a bit sketchier attendance, then going up to 9 maybe at the high end, but creeping up to 12 takes it to the double patrol territory and things start falling apart a bit.

I'm with you on that! I'd love to see all troop campouts oriented more like a backpacking trip. Perhaps not all the way there, but keeping it basic and simple.Maybe treat them more like a canoe trip with regards to the stuff you take. It would certainly make prepping for a real backpacking trek more "natural"!

http://scoutmastercg.com/aids-scoutmastership/#OneReason Why a Troop Should not Exceed Thirty Two and I find it interesting that BP's number of 16 works out as a multiple of his idea patrol size http://scoutmastercg.com/aids-scoutmastership/#ThePatrol System I forget where I read it now, but I think it was BP who wrote about building the patrol method out of the gangs of friends in which boys tend to run around in or with. I find it interesting that most of my life observations have proven these gangs or groups of friends tend to be in the range of 6-8 people. This seems to be true in all ages and for most groups, not just boys. And Look at sports as another example. How big are the teams?

I don't think this is a limitation on only scouts or youth. It's much broader than that

yeah, I had similar thoughts on towing as the OP, after our summer camp trip. The scouter towing our double axle covered trailer went along pretty fast in my opinion. I never looked, but I'll bet safely he was over the speed rating of those trailer tires. He's an experienced tower, and had a solid tow vehicle, and the tires were new, but it was loaded heavy to some unknown weight and it was fast. It did cross my mind that I'm not so sure I'd want my son in there with him.... especially on the way home after he was good and tired. He had done a lot of driving that week..... (side trips that are another story)

boy, this is a hard one! I had to vote DD, even though I'm a Southern Boy.... but that vote is conditional.... a fresh & still warm KK can't be beat.... but so many are sold now a days retail in gas stations, after having been trucked in. Just not quite the same. I'm having flash backs now, of high school days, and hitting the drive through at KK late at night..... and nearly polishing off a dozen by myself. (NO, I'm not huge, wasn't then, and while I have gained some weight over the years, not as much as it might seem...) and on top of that, I have a fondness for some of the frosted/filled varieties and that is where DD excels, IMO.

Hi Curious.... is there a significance to the greek letters chosen, ETP?

out of 7, we have no TF's yet to my knowledge. The ones that went to summer camp are reasonably close, but still have a thing or two to do. Based on flipping through DS's book, he's fairly close to 2nd class too, and not too much more for 1st It doesn't help that our troop adults go into hibernation for the summer. All comes to a stop after summer camp till sometime in August.

I have wondered how they expect the tour permit to work in a situation like this..... now way the right tag numbers and drivers were listed after a shakeup like that.

I like Beavah's analogy of the canoe MB. The way I take what he's writing is a question....which came first, the MB requirements, or the going out an learning canoeing to have fun? As Clarke Green is always saying over at his site, let the scouts do what it is that they do, then the requirements will fall into place.... having fun while you're at it. meanwhile if you take your list of requirements as a checklist out to the water front, and attack that checklist.....how much fun is that? Not much in my book.... On the other hand, isn't it better if you go out and learn canoeing with your buds in the patrol.... with no other goal but to learn canoeing and to HAVE FUN.....then after the fact somebody pulls out the paper and signing off what you did?

that's it, but I wonder if that's on the Northbound side. My aging brain tells me that the one we looked at was a red brick pedestal. We were on the Southbound side. Do you know the lad or have a connection? I'm sure there have been a lot of scouts and scouters notice that project!

This past weekend, my son noticed the Eagle project depicting a pot of Brunswick Stew at the I-95 rest area near Brunswick GA. I forget the date on the plaque now, but that's been there a good while. I'm not sure about the interest or significance of it, but I remember thinking it a lasting legacy for that scout. Not much maintenance required for it either....

now THIS is what needs to be told to folks in a position of sitting in on boards!.... just to give an idea about the sorts of things that they might ask. what most folks don't grasp.....

Hey, welcome to the forum Casper72 Happy to have you here! I agree with you, that it's a fun diversion to immerse yourself into scouting talk. I started when I was active in my son's pack, as you are doing. It seems that most of the conversations are more to do with troop life though... One regret i have is not paying closer attention and studying up on those troop issues earlier. I think I could have done the Cubs a better service had I been more focused on working them towards the patrol method. What is your position with the pack, and what level is your son currently? As for your question.... I can't add to what's already been said, since I'm only slightly familiar with the updated program..... except to say that I'd encourage that scout to make it work and stick with his friends. I see no sense in dragging out Cubs just for the sake of doing things chronologically. Sticking with friends is more important.

ok, so here's an example of what I was getting at the re-test...... and what this whole BOR thing is anyway. In this discussion, we're saying it's a conversation, and so on.... I did a quick search hoping to be able to quote chapter and verse found this http://scoutingmagazine.org/2008/11/this-is-not-a-test/ so from that reference, According to The Scoutmaster Handbook, the purpose of the board of review is “not to retest a Scout, but rather to ensure that he has completed all of the requirements, to determine the quality of his troop experience, and to encourage him to advance toward the next rank. Each review should also include a discussion of ways in which the Scout sees himself living up to the Scout Oath and Law in his everyday life.†So this is the TRAINING & GUIDANCE we get? if the purpose is NOT to re-test, how is it then that we are to ensure that he completed his requirements? If we don't re-test, then what can we do to that end? We can ensure that he has the required sign offs. A document check. The article goes on to elaborate on that, but that's really it boiled down, isn't it?

better not take these scouts out onto the highway anymore.... I just saw a trucker yesterday, with a sign on the back of his trailer "Show Me Your Hooters" don't want to be gettin' any unwholesome thoughts on the way to summer camp now.....

I didn't mean to say formal training on just that.... just to say that overall i think it's not made clear to the "average" scouter...... the ones that barely just sit through the online training that is "required" I'll bet all the others on our committee as an example, more or less get the gist of what you said there, in one sentence....(what you think the intent is) but they also would add on several other sentences... including, or stepping over the line at least into what most of us would call re-testing. They focus on the idea of getting the scout ready for job interviews, stuff like that..... all of which may be part of the idea.... but my bigger point is, why doesn't the BSA make this simple concept crystal clear to everyone not a training course.... just a slide or two Lord knows most of these folks won't read that new two volume leader book cover to cover.... (or at all)

I think you're wrong in the way you put that. It's not a myth at all. and it's not all about the adults trying to make it easier for themselves. But when these sorts of point come up, it's gets semantic really quick, just as it did here. It is a situational thing. Barry, I agree with you that there are places and times when the older scouts don't mind, or even enjoy, being with the younger scouts But I disagree that the idea is a myth. There are plenty of other times when it's the last thing they want to do..... (and yes, there are times like this even when playing the game of scouting) and it goes both ways too. It's not only the older ones not wanting to hang with the younger ones, but the younger ones wanting to do stuff that would not interest the older ones.... We need the program to bigger than one way or the other.

I suspect that this is a common thing. & relating to the other current thread, about boards of review... I see a direct relationship boiling down to lack of or poor training From what i can tell, no clear guidelines or training really happens (or exists?) regarding both of these topics. what EXACTLY is the goal of the _____ (handbook sign off evolution / SM review / board of review) what is tested during the _____ What is considered re-testing during ______, and when is that off limits etc.... so, a lot of grey area leads to a lot of folks stumbling around trying to do their best, with some being over zealous and others not zealous enough....

wouldn't expect anything else from most of those classic rock shock-jockies I have heard. Those guys will twist anything into something they can make fun of..... in the tackiest way possible

but that can be a backfire too.... the old SM can't let go, the new SM might get resentful, etc.... it's an attack, its undermining, and so on probably right.... well intentioned, no idea, etc.... Video taping could easily come off as an attack as could a forced or staged conversation with the old SM put yourself into the new SM's shoes... how would you feel if someone took a video of you, then proceeded to show it to you and point out all the things you are doing wrong? most folks wouldn't take that well, even the most open minded among us.... In my thinking, the most logical approach is the conversation..... but it needs to be well timed and casual. Not planned or pointed. Not one directional, but more like an "oh by the way" while in the middle of a friendly chat..... joking around the campfire in a friendly manner..... that sort of thing... but really it is so personally and situationally dependent.... only you can really know when that person is open to hearing it, when you feel that you can say it in the right way, when you have enough of a bond or clout to be heard, etc....

I had asked a similar question.... not exactly the same, but a similar situation a while back, that prompted the podcast about cooperative volunteering a while back over at scoutmastercg.com http://scoutmastercg.com/podcast-294-cooperative-volunteering/ These sorts of things are very frustrating indeed. and it's something that I struggle with a lot. I think it's a personality thing for me. I want to just be blunt about it, or point things out directly.... but I'm not the best at the whole people thing sometime so I know enough to bit my lip a bit. There is only so much that a person will listen too, and it greatly depends on who it is coming from and who they are, how and when it's presented, etc...