SSScout

RoundTable, eh? I'm the Bscout RTCommish. Filling the year RTs is a challenge, but some months are "defined" already. November has to have Rechartering included. December is "Holiday Party" and award time, picture show. May is "Program Launch , Midway exhibits. June is the last "Offishul" RT, so along with the regular announcement stuff, I invite a Troop to do some Camp Cooking Demo. Our usual meeting site has a nice "back yard", so if the Host Scout Troop doesn't want to do it, another Troop can easily step in. We have had one Troop offer to do the year end, and it was GOOD! "Walk around Tacos", look it up online. We always invite the Cub RT to attend our cook out and the Cub folks enjoy it. Give'em ideas, I hope. If you have to "Change Venue" to accommodate the RT Cook out, just make sure you have a good email list for notification, (another issue entirely).

"Grand Canyon Council"! I have been to your namesake site! Truly you have a spectacular neighborhood! And welcome to the forums. Some of these discussions do get pretty deep :-)

""...how much.... your pack should weigh." When Scoutson crossed over to an active Troop, I told him I would buy him anything he wished in the way of equipment . He chose (!) a five D cell Maglite, super bright, super cool. He carried it ONCE on a back pack trip. After that, he borrowed dad's 2 AA cell light. The Maglite later went in his pickup for work.

Awwww, preserved overly salted fatty prepared meat product (bologna). Everyone knows the basis of all knowledge is Mathematics, hence the proper acronymic mnemonic is MAST Math, Arts, Science, Technology (includes Engineering. The APPLIED ARTS, which come from applying the Math, Science in an Artistic way) "Form Follows Function" Buckminster Fuller, Robert Loewy, Henry Dreyfuss, et al....

Pie Irons. "Mountain Pies". Like these: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pie-Iron-Set/26128070 Mine are probably 75 years old already. Butter/grease each inside, Slice of bread on each side, "stuff" inside, close'm up, over the coals for maybe 10 minutes, crispy yum.

Gee, I thought I put in a suggestion, but it wasn't here when I checked in today. Here goes again.... The GSUSA website store has some "general" patches that can be adapted to special activities. Look into those. Also, if you step into your local BSA Scout Shop, you will find a plethora of general patches, mostly in the Cub area, such as fishing, boating, hiking, other topics. I don't imagine your Daisies would object to having a little fleur de Lis in the corner of their patch. And you've got the Patrol patches, lots of animal silhouettes to adapt to your purpose. And Qwasze has a fine idea with the blank Patrol patch. Art? Cut off a small paint brush and hot glue it on a safety pin.... At the Nat Jam, a group of us commemorated a particularly hot afternoon gathering by taking the ice cream Dixie Cup lids and punching holes in them, tie a loop of string, to them, and presto! we have an pocket award that will start a conversation and remind ourselves of a good time.

""New Improved Cooking Merit Badge"": 1) Trap, kill, butcher, cook and eat a rabbit, or other mammal of your choice over a wood fire. Add vegetables (in season) as available. Season to taste. Serve to your Counselor. With prior Counselor approval , fish or shellfish may be substituted. Don't forget beverages (fruit juice, milk, coffee, tea, iced or hot). 2) Provide proof to your MB Counselor that you survived the above process. 3) Cook a breakfast for your family or friends , a group of at least 5 (including yourself), on a home stove (electric or gas as available). Include items OTHER than only oatmeal or Cream of Wheat or toast or pasta, such as bacon, beef, eggs, pancakes, Johnny Cake, sausage, hash, home fries, omelets, hush puppies, pan fried trout, oven scratch biscuits , corn pone, or cream chip beef. Include fresh fruit on your table, and other condiments as appropriate (maple syrup, salt and pepper, garlic powder, Rosemary, Paprika, etc.). Again, do not forget the beverages. 4) Provide to your Counselor testimonials from the group in #3 attesting to the fact they survived the meal. 5) After #1 and #3 above, the previous activities, Clean up and put away all utensils and clean up all cooking and prep areas such that your grandmother would approve. Acquire her signature on an affidavit attesting to such. If a personal grandmother is not available, anyone's grandmother may be substituted for this requirement.

Welcome to our eCrackerbarrel, Thrifty. No time like the present, huh? Back in my day, and in some present days, the Scouts plan their camping trips before hand, "notify the parents" (need for transportation, registration, gear check, pack up, etc.) , and on the day of departure, it goes something like this: Meet at the "church" at 7am (6am??), load up, disperse scouts to their rides, head out. Stop at the Safeway and do the Patrol shopping, pack up , divide the load amongst the Scouts, and head on out to the camp ground/trail head. The money has already been collected by the Patrol Treasurer or Grubmaster, and THAT is the budget. Need more ? put something back, buy something cheaper. No big coolers, just stuff you can carry. Powdered milk, powdered "Tang" etc. Eggs will keep, meat is wrapped up. Fresh veggies (carrots, onions, potatoes) are roots that need no refrigeration ever, Lots of freeze dried stuff available in the ordinary big grocery store, just look for it. It works. As for the PLC, your Scouts have to be convinced BY THE ADULT'S ACTIONS AND WORDS (emphasis intended) that they really CAN make those decisions and plans. Every time the adults "insist" and then "impose", they are showing their hypocrisy in their dealings with the Scouts. How will the Scouts react? By "sitting around, waiting for the meeting to end." This can be avoided by: (1) giving the Scouts the training they deserve. The In-Troop Leadership Training known as http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/ILST%20FINALS%202011%20-%20Item%20Number%20511-016.pdf can help. Read thru this and imagine what the Scouts will come to expect as a result. The adult leaders need to read and buy into this, too. And or.... 2) Send some of the Scouts (any Scout can attend)to the NAYLE in your area. Some Councils do this annually, some more often, check with your Council. Or go to one of the National courses, like at the Summit, or Philmont. see http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Resources/NAYLE.aspx No Scout ewho attends a well run NAYLE will ever be satisfied with a "Webelos 3" Troop . And... 3) By the Adults, (SM, ASMs, CCh, ,,,,) all consistently and constantly asking, "well, what do YOU want to do?" and "Go ask your Patrol Leader", and "did you ask the SPL?" 4) Insist, when questions come up, "is this consistent with your Scout Law? Your Scout Promise"? Note I said YOUR not THE, there is a difference in that reference. The one is PERSONAL, the other is not. Make it personal to the Scout. 'Course now, this is only my personal observation and suggestion. You won't find it in any BSA offishul stuff. But does it make sense? Does it help with your situation? See you on the trail....

Better outdoors, but can work indoors: "Steal the Bacon, Low Fat" If you remember the "usual" Steal the Bacon (two lines, call out numbers, numbers somehow rassle for the 'bacon' and bring it back to their line), you will recognize this. **Count off into two even groups, line up opposite each other on two lines about twenty yards or so apart. Adjust for age, skill, etc. Place the "Bacon" in the middle , equally between the lines. This can be a cap, or sweater or a soccer ball, for instance. **Declare the rules so as to minimize injuries, for instance if a ball, "Soccer rules! Feet only! No hands!" The goal is to bring the Bacon back across YOUR line to gain a point. Now, how do you do that? **As The "Caller" , I will make a statement. If that statement is true for YOU, then you come out and "Steal the Bacon!" If it is NOT true for you, stay where you are! You will have your turn, I promise! Now, STAY BEHIND THAT LINE, unless the statement applies to YOU! "On My Honor", now, I do not know anything about you or your families, so it's up to YOU to be honest about these things! ** The "Leader" or "Coach" or "Caller" must be creative and observant . Give an example: "Now, don't move, but raise your hand if you had Orange Juice for breakfast! OKAY! If we were playing, you Scouts would have come out after that Bacon! Again, don't move, but raise your hand if your dad wears glasses! Right! Any questions? Okay, this time we play! Listen carefully! I am wearing BLACK SOX!" (watch them lift up their pants!) **Some samples: My mom wears glasses, we own a red car, I had oatmeal for breakfast, I have a cartoon character on my shirt, I have a fish/cat/dog/snake/rabbit/guinea pig for a pet. I was born in November/December/April... I have a younger sister, I have visited New York/Canada/Mexico, I have ridden in a canoe, someone in my family serves in the military, Last week, I went to the dentist, had a haircut, went to a movie, real theater. I have a Boy Scout/Girl Scout for a sibling. ** I am wearing stripes. I have LETTERS on my shirt. Last night, we had hamburgers/fish/black beans for dinner. ** Be creative ... I like raw oysters, I am wearing a belt, my mom was NOT born in the USA, I was born in Virginia, My dad has a beard, my mom has a beard (OOPS!), my birthday is an even number,,,,,,,, Have fun......

"Always wid' da negative waves, Moriarty...." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU

Possibilities: 1) Time the trip so the bus is traveling during the night. Scouts sack out on board during the trip. Save the daytime for sight seeing and activities. 1A) Wash up? Check franchise restaurants. F'instance, Cracker Barrel is very Scout Friendly. You may not get a shower, but hands and face and teeth brushing. 1B) Same idea, find the train that goes your way... AMTRAK discounts for youth groups. 2) Associated churches , military bases, Scout camps along the way. Call and ask. Internet stuff. Whom do you know? 3) Friends and relatives along the way. My Quaker Camp regularly walks the route of RELee retreating from Gettysburg, and often stays along the way in basements and backyards of various Friends. One acquaintance is a retired safari organizer , and his stories and wall decorations (!) are worth any discomfort. 4) Hostels International. Not too many around the USA, but if they are on the way, inexpensive accommodations. A bunk, roof, showers, shared kitchen, shared common room, shared chores to upkeep the premises. See https://www.hiusa.org/ 5) It is an adventure, yes? Save the expensive stuff for mom and dad to provide, I say. See YOU on the trail...

In CS, the Adults plan, lead, provide ideas and opportunities, food, cooking, supplies, shelter, transportation, payment of bills, guidance, health and safety. In Boy Scouts, the adults are SUPPOSED to step back and let the boys do just about all of the above, save the health and safety. Step in and say "stay away from that cliff, unless you take the Climb On training!" Mistakes are learned from, not necessarily prevented. Oh, and bills paid... Venture Scouts, adults "advise " and make sure about safety. 18 year old should have a job. Webelos (keep the S) Scouts are by modern definition a transition. Back in my Scout days, I went from Lion Cub to Webelos to Boy Scout (blue shirt to khaki) without much transition. Nowadays, it is meant to be an eeeeeasing into Boy Scouting. I guess the pros are afraid of scaring the poor lil' Webs. So the requirement is to "Show that you are an active leader by planning an activity without your den leader's help."" All the WDL need do is make sure nobody gets burned/tripped up/drowns/poisoned. Anything else the Web Cub can plan is, to my mind, Okay. One of my favorite memories is of a newly promoted Senior Patrol Leader being encouraged to "take command" of the Troop at a planning session. He was obviously waiting for the SM to say "we will do THIS" . The SPL finally had his "AHA!" moment and sputtered," you mean I can decide that?", to which the SM replied "Duh....."

This is strictly District sponsored. Just Eagle Required, the promo sez. No canoeing or archery.... I will follow up eventually, and see how it goes, er, went.

Mythbusters duct tape canoe... http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/duct-tape-boat/

Well here's a new one , for me at least.... Local District is sponsoring a "Eagle Required Partial Merit Badge Completion Day" . There will be MBCounselors available for all Eagle required MBs to help the Scout finish the partials , specifically mentioned "from summer camp" . Contact info available to talk about finishing prerequisites....

Well, it certainly is not "required" by any BSA reg, but it does make a nice occasion. It should be remembered that the presentation of the goodies need not be too fancy. The celebration/recognition is up to the Scout and his family. A regular Troop CoH is sufficient. Say the Eagle Promise , congratulate the Scout and eat the cookies. It is kind of sad when the Scout won't allow any recognition. He earned it, he should be congratulated for it. Humility? Embarrassment? Disgust that he finally accomplished what his parents required of him? Got the Eagle, let me get my license now....Different reasons, I guess. I have seen the family try for a nice ceremony only to have the Scout begrudgingly go thru the motions and then never be seen at a Scout event again.

Cubmaster 35: Welcome to the forums. Looks like you got your wish in asking for advice (that IS what you wanted, yes?). Doesn't mean you would agree with the advice, just that you would get it. Name calling? I didn't see/read any initially, only supposition and possibilities, given what you shared. Tit for tat? Not very Christian in my faith. Return love for hate. In our case, follow the Scout Law and Promise, even here. Allow, if he will, the pastor of the CO to "do the right thing", but do not back him into a corner where he will continue to do the "wrong thing". Keep yourself on the higher moral ground. Do not return his bad behavior with worse . My general advice: 1) Remember the Scout Law, the Scout Promise, and while you're at it, The Golden Rule. 2) Document everything. Record witnesses to conversations. Save emails, print'em out. Keep a diary of phone conversations, etc. 3) Talk to the others in your old Pack leadership. Keep the conversation going. Invest in a new coffee maker. 4) Definitely talk to your DE, your District Commissioner, and ask about forming a new Pack with your existing folks. Your bridges have already been burned, move on. In most Cub Packs I have known, most of the "gear" is privately owned but "loaned" to the Cubs. Flags, Pinewood Derby Track, maybe Packs , but the other stuff is Mr. Jones', or Mrs. Smith's. 5) Take a deep breath and drop your own pretense at having all the answers. You do not. Your friends from the Pack have some, you have some, the pastor has some (even if you don't really know or like his version). The DE and DC have some. Listen more than you speak. 6) We each of us dig our own hole to climb out of. If I understand the inferences you gave about the pastor, he may be digging his own hole deeper. He may (MAY) have been transferred from another church to give him another chance (ummmm, that sounds familiar.). 7) The truth will out. Be patient. Be not vengeful. 8) To quote again the wisdom of Bob The Tomato, "It's for the kids". Keep that up front, and you won't be half wrong. I was once denied a staff position for the Jamboree , this after having previously served succesfully at the Jamboree, many years of fruitful training, documented leadership and awards. It took me three months of polite, persistent, logical, email, phone call, personal visits, letters from my associates to find out the truth of the matter. It was ultimately worth it. But if I had yelled and screamed about how unfair and poorly treated I felt, I would not have succeeded . And, I feel, the BSA was the better for my efforts. See you on the trail...

Brings up something mentioned at the last RT. Popcorn sales. Unit sells popcorn ("Hey, it's not over priced, this is a DONATION to Scouting, with a THANK YOU gift in return."). About 1/3 goes to pay for the Popcorn (Trails End), 1/3 to the unit (divvy up as a Scout Account? and Unit? Pay for Philmont?) and 1/3 to the Council. Okay, if the Unit sells "holiday trees" or sells spaghetti suppers, they decide who keeps what (wholesale the trees to Oregon or NC, grocery supplier gives discount). Any units on the receiving end of this website VOLUNTARILY donate a third to their Council? In the mean time, it almost makes sense, what the original poster said. Almost. Most Units that I know already collect some dues and then include the Handbook(s), neckers, hats, insignia, "bling", camp prepayments (credit!), and ceremonial regalia (candles, flags, banners, sign outside the CO). We all pay taxes. These taxes are used (one hopes) to pay for lots of things us citizens need and like. Roads, schools, dams, parks, zoos, military protection.... I may never get to see Zion Park in person, but I like to think my taxes have preserved it. Are our membership fees and FOS and popcorn going to preserve Camp Wizbang so it won't get sold to a developer because the SE needs a pay bump and no one thought to "promote Scouting" other wise? Are only us locals showing Scouting to be the program for certain nephews ( hello UncleP ) by which to grow into men ? It is nice to get a paycheck for what one does. we have a local community museum. It was started by an auctioneer who realized he was selling off the history of the area everytime he cleared out an old farm or settled the estate of a family who no longer lived within 5 miles of the grandparents home. It started with a collection in the National Bank's basement. This museum grew and became popular. School groups came. Exhibits of the "old ways" were created and one wall was dedicated to a local baseball legend. They named the road in front of the museum after his family, which donated the land for the construction of the new building. Volunteers worked tirelessly. Now, it has five paid staff, the original founders are almost all gone. One half of the "town" gallery has been cleared for a sculpture gallery, wine and beer gardens are more frequent than special exhibits on "old time things". The dedicated wall to the ball player is taken down, in favor of a big poster extolling the next pottery demonstration. Is BSA Scouting taking this same course? Is the Program taking backseat to the necessity of paying wages? Hey, is this de ja vu all over again? Increase the National membership fee, maybe. Include all that other stuff, no, that's the Council trying to take a piece of the Units pie.....

Yep. A good Cub RT is run like a Pack meeting, giving the model for other folks to emulate. Breakouts (so called. Our Cub RT is usually too small and so is one meeting, one theme, one "Big Rock") can be viewed as Den Meetings.... It does take advance planning, more so because Packs have (very often) the new parents who don't necessarily know what to expect. The Scout Law/Promise game can easily take 15 minutes if done right. Another game: Den competition: For each Den, You need two five gallon buckets, one Labeled "FIRE" the other labeled " WATER" , a Big Spoon, and finally a bag of cotton puffs, separated and LAID (not stuffed) into the "WATER" bucket. Count out puffs? Maybe 25? The empty "FIRE" bucket is at one end of the room. The FULL "WATER" bucket at the other., maybe a line 25' away, not too far. Den lines up behind the "WATER" bucket. First Cub holds spoon, on signal(GO), Den Leader places ONE cotton ball on the spoon, and Cub walks to "Fire" bucket and deposits cotton ball in to EXTINGUISH the fire. , runs back, gives spoon to next Cub, Den Leader puts another cotton ball on the spoon, etc. If CB falls off, Cub should pick it up right there, and continue. NO HANDS WHILE MOVING! NON-SPOON HAND BEHIND BACK! First Cub goes to end of his Den line, continue. First Den to EXTINGUISH their fire (no more cotton balls!) wins. Appropriate prize awarded.... Cub Master/Cheerleader can demonstrate proper technique! "Don't waste water! Don't spill any!" Outdoor version: Use real water, measure amount somehow.....

Oh, THAT kind of Chaplain, not this one?

Our Panaderia here down the street will be open in a while. What kind of pie do you want, Stosh?

This is what democracy is all about. A group, deciding for themselves, what should happen, rather than having events thrust on them. "This is what we will do". versus "Let's do this. Or, let's do this, what do you think?" New England Town Meeting vs Facism? When I attended Boy's State, we had , oh, maybe 300 kids (boys!) thrown together in a college campus, we were arbitrarily divided into "States" of about 30 each, with a Marine DI as a "counselor" . We attended classes in behavior ("Do It This Way") that, on hind sight, were intended to make us want to do things differently, and classes/lectures on US and World history. We got together in what we learned to call "caucus" and appointed among ourselves reps and judges a governor and committees of communication. We "talked" with the other "states" and ultimately settled into a "Nation" type camp. Patrols and Troop dynamics? Willingness of the Adult Leadership to ask, many, many times..... "What do you think?"

Amen , ditto and agree to all the above. This is "Mr. Smith's Troop", not a "Boy Scout Troop". The Adult Leaders need the official training. They need copies of the Guide To Advancement. They need to allow their Scouts to attend the local Council " National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience." (NAYLE) Or... your son could attend, any Scout can. Look for it on your local Council website. The Scout that comes back from the NAYLE will never be satisfied with such a Troop / Patrol dynamic as you describe. Montain Man does sound like the First Year Scout sessions many summer camps have. The camp may /may not sign off on it. In Scouts, the standard is once a requirement is passed, the Scout should not be tested again. This does not mean he should not be given opportunity to PRACTICE his skill or knowledge. Patrol Knot competition, First Aid drills, compass/map games, nothing wrong with those. If the camp passed out certificates attesting to the idea that the Scout had THIS class and THIS training, I think a period of demonstration/practice might be a good idea. Every Scout loves the chance to chop wood in an Axe Yard in somebody's back yard (Totin' Chip?), or do pioneering stuff at a Troop meeting (Camp Gizmo? Rope and Poles?) Merit Badges? Must be registered with the Council as a Merit Badge Counselor. If the Counselor's name is not properly recorded with Council, this can lead to problems years later. See Eagle requirements. Save those Blue card tabs! Save ANY signed Scout card, these are the proof that the rank/class/requirement has been taken/passed. This is true for anything Scouty, from Tenderfoot thru Woodbadge (adult thing). You are within your rights to go to the Council Registrar and inquire about their records re your Scout. If things aren't up to date correct (be reasonable, months may pass without entries), then go to your Charter Organization Representative or Institution Head (These are the folks that sign the charter that sponsors the unit) and have a conversation about your experience with your unit leaders. They (the COR and IH ) may not even be aware of their responsibilities , may not even be aware the (church/temple/foundation/VFW/etc.) sponsors a Scout Unit. There are many different defined Scout Leaders that are supposed to check up and help each other. New folks such as yourself (was your Scout a Cub?) may not be aware of the possibilities. There is also something called "Round Table". This is a local get together training for adult Scouters. You might research the event on your local Council/District website. Make some more friends, compare experiences, encourage proper behavior, learn something new, drink more coffee, etc. Depend, concentrate on the Scout Promise and Scout Law. Base all your activities vis a vis your Scout on those. Set the example for him. And, allow him the chance to plead his own case as much as he can. Do not be lax in asking him "well, what do YOU want to do?" And do not be slow in asking around to other families. You just may have some similar experiences to join with. Strength in numbers and all that. Good luck to your Scout and you. See you on the trail !

"That friend speaks my mind". I have had to disabuse folks of the idea that the BSA is a "Christian" organization many times. "Well, it's based on Christian principles, isn't it?" Maybe, but then why do so many other faiths find agreement with the Promise and Law, and then use it for their Youth Ministry, just as the Mormons do? Jesus was a Jew, did you know that? I don't remember him being "disowned" by his synagogue. If we follow the teachings of a devout Jew, what does that make us? I have heard "Christian" defined several ways: Someone who emulates the life of Jesus, tries to live their own life the way Jesus lived his (modern appurtenances not withstanding). Someone who accepts the idea that Jesus died his torturous death in recompense for the sins I have committed so that God will forgive me. He wouldn't forgive me before if I asked it of him and showed my sincerity by my future actions? We still need a blood sacrifice. Someone who does certain rituals and says certain things. Someone who reads and agrees with the Bible. How much of the Bible? New AND Old Parts? All of it? Only ACTS? And what about continuing revelation, any room for that, or is the present Gospel complete and finished? Old timer was asked which Bible translation he favored to give to the Sunday School kids. He replied, "King James, of course, If it's good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for the kids!" And yes, I think this is way past merely an issue or a politic. We have done lots of "Faith and Chaplaincy" discussions . I still feel a separate Forum is appropriate and the utility proven. Stosh, any time thee pass thru Maryland, I would treat thee to a piece of pie.... Squirrel on my bird feeder, dang.

Golly gee, and I thought this had been moved to the "Faith and Chaplaincy Forum". Oh, right.....