SSScout

Goats. What's a goat, when the challenge is fundraising? On another level, back in the days of "possible", for many years, my dad's Lions Club sponsored a horse show on a local farm. This was a traditional fund raiser and community event. ( as happens, the farm is now a shopping center. Sic Gloria Agricola). The event included dressage demos, hunter/jumping classes, big horse teams (Percherons, Clydesdales in 4, 6 and even 8 horse hitch), lots of horse events, dawn to dusk, all day. Us kids, many Scouts, all were put happily to work in various capacities. Messengers, escorting celebrities, policing jumps, handling gates.... Part of the event involved the raffling of a Shetland Pony . All us kids wanted to win that ! Regardless of the lack of acreage or fencing in our yards. One year, my buddy Henry and I were put in charge of escorting the pony around the County Fair while our dad's sold the raffle tickets. I remember loading the pony into the back seat (!!) of Mr. Stabler's Oldsmobile, big battleship of a car, and driving to the County Fair like that. Nice pony.... Ah, the memories....

qwazse: Said very well. Thee speaks my mind, friend. The perceived need to try and define YOUR belief by insisting you match MY belief has fueled more conflicts than any other reason. Christ may indeed be The Way , but other ways may well get you there, albeit in (what some may see as) a circuitous route. "" 519. The Humble, Meek, Merciful, Just, Pious and Devout Souls, are everywhere of one Religion; and when Death has taken off the Mask, they will know one another, tho' the divers Liveries they wear here make them Strangers. "" = William Penn, 'Some Fruits of Solitude' =

Bugling ! Good for him. As an "older guy", I teach Bugling Merit Badge. Tell your Scout that when he gets good at it, he can even make a little money (which he might want to donate to a worthy charity), by offering his services to the local VFW or American Legion. They are always looking for buglers for ceremonies, especially burials. And, check with Bugles Across America" http://www.buglesacrossamerica.org/ He can also find some old TV shows that featured bugling on YouTube: "Boots and Saddles" and "Captain Gallant of the French Foreign Legion" . The later will help him learn "Tatoo" and the French call to the clors !. Carry your bugle and be close by the SPL so you can serve the Troop at camp ! A tourist was lost in New York and was looking for that famous theater, Carnegie Hall. He saw an old gentleman coming toward him on the sidewalk and stopped him, saying, "Pardon me , sir, can you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?" The old gentleman pointed his finger at the tourist and declared: "Practice, practice, practice !!"

""The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up"" **Sigh** Lots of folks (I have a hard time calling some "parent") are sick with the "Soccer Syndrome". Symptoms: Desire to drop kid off and come back in three hours. Desire that kid become "good citizen" under tutelage of somebody else. ANYBODY else. How to combat this? I 'm not sure if anyone can. There is a fear that , now that I have a child, I will be unworthy/unable/unskilled/not knowledgeable enough to BE a parent. If you can only get the parent to participate , with the kid, (that's one of the ideas of the Tiger/parent pairing . yes ?) , on a Cub activity, they will see how easy it really is, and how much FUN it really is... I had the Nature Pavilion at CSDC one summer. One day, we talk about Leave No Trace. I set the Cubs up with their Buddy, and send them out on a short hike: Go straight out THAT way 100 paces, turn left, walk THAT way 25 paces, turn left and walk back to the pavilion, and pickup ANYTHING that God didn't put there. Boy , did we get a pile of trash. In the mean time, the adult "DenWalkers" stay behind and sometimes we talk about Scouting. One hour, this lady was on her cell phone the whole time: "I can't believe the work I will have on MONDAY !! Why couldn't someone ELSE do this?? Teddy doesn't need me all day ? It's so... " and she went on, oblivious to everyone else... It was sad, I couldn't break in....

"It Depends". If you're at a Camporee, by all means, label and organize. Troop flag/entry "Welcome to" sign... , Patrol flags, tents in nice "streets". Poles, label the Streets with paper plate, marker, duct tape. Mini City, earns a ribbon for the Patrol and Troop for "Camp Site " layout. Have fun with it, make it a creative thing for the bored Scouts that have "seen the usual Camporee". At Summer Camp, same thing. Take some pride in your campsite, doll it up, make it not only a "camp", but a "community". At one summer camp I attended, we totally rearranged the tent platforms into streets, etc. The camp inspectors basically dropped their jaws and said "wooow" as they walked around. No more tents here and there. Lashed together (Pioneering !) a "Gateway" with the flags and a carved (traditional !) sign on it. On the trail, I like the carabiner thing. But is your Troop so large that the Patrol Leader cannot have aegis over his Patrol's arrangements?

BALOO is/was the Cub leader requirement to take a Cub Pack camping. The old training was a long morning, afternoon of discussion, equipment demo, experience sharing, group dynamics study. We were recently informed that National has decreed a new set of curricula that requires (!) an overnight camp , sort of another IOLS for Cub leaders. The consensus around here is that the BALOO (lost the acronymic relevance with the elimination of the Kipling Jungle Book connection) was meant to be an introduction to folks that may not have had ANY camping experience at all, that Cub camping need not involve "roughing it". Why the desire to immerse newbies in an overnight, set up the tent, cook outdoors for a first time out kind of thing? And how hard is it to get Cub parent leaders out for an afternoon of training, much less a WEEKEND ? And why the "Immediately" declaration, rather than "as of...." sort of scheduling. Maybe Irving is seeking to employ the classic psychology of the "Cognitive Dissonance" phenomena. Make it so undesirable that it has to be desirable... http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-033(17)BALOO.pdf

Renting goats is very traditional. Folks used to do this waaaay back before power lawn mowers. Fence in the cemetery and turn the sheep and goats loose. A day or two later, close cropped grass ! Tether the beastie in your yard and move it around every day, trimmed grass. But one must be careful of the ddesired flower beds, poor goat doesn't know the difference between weed and begonia....

Lots of "if onlys" and "what I woulda dones" here. ""The work is done by whoever shows up"". Everybody (you, me, them) has to make choices as to what is important when. MB? Now? Is it possible to complete later? Will I be able to help at other service projects? Did the other Scouts voice the idea the MBcompleters had "diched them"? Is that where this came from? Did some other Scouts choose the project over completing their own MBs? Colors the issue.... The ASMs' alleged comments/diatribe/discussion might better have been done at a SMMinute. Make it obvious the values that are valued (completing assigned duties, project "cheerful service", supporting buddies, pride of successful completion), maybe the MB completers could have fulfilled their "duty to others" with another job... but that would 've been on them to offer, rather than the ASMs insisting, yes? This comes with maturity and experience. And, hey, what is Scouting about if not gaining maturity and experience? IMHO, the ASMs dropped the ball. Counsel the MBcompleters PRIVATELY. Give them the opportunity to Do The Right Thing themselves, rather than dragging them thru the gauntlet of the Troop. This ain't Marine Corps Bootcamp.

The three words no Scoutmaster wants to hear: "HEY ! WATCH THIS !" The point of this discussion I think is whether or not the SM can trust his Scouts, out of his hearing, not to say those three words....

1) BALOO trained . Check. 2) Schedule . check. 3) Insist on BUDDY SYSTEM... No one goes out of camp areas (define that !) with out a Parent or BUDDY and parent permission ! AND you check out with a Scout Leader (you ?) 4) Free time? Poke around in the stream and look for crayfish? 5) What sort of stuff does the Park offer? Night time campfire program? Astronomy program? Earn a Astronomy Belt loop ! Find the North Star! Tell some Indian Stories ! Why does the Bear in the Sky have a tail and the Bear in the woods/zoo has none? 6) Have extra sleeping bags/cushions/foam matress back in your car, just in case. Have lots of plastic bags big and small, for wet socks, shoes, etc. just in case. 7) Let/invite the Cubs to do as much as they can in the line of carry and schlepping stuff. Don't be afraid to ask the shy one to help with the fire wood. KiS MiF !

ItsBrian: Accounting the cost of something is always important. My wife always wonders why I like to sit down, add up the receipts from our vacation trip: Gas, restaurants, souvenirs, admissions, parking fees, motels, etc. From when we leave the house until we are back in our own beds. Was it worth the cost? Was renting a camp trailer better than staying in hotels/motels all the way? I might not include the new tires, the oil change, the tuneup and detailing the car, but still, it is good I think to be able to show where the money went, maybe next time a judgement can be made and not include this, do that differently. Food for the work crew is definitely to be included. That's the fuel that makes things run, yes?

1) Why I do not go to many (if any) pro sports games: It is intended as entertainment FIRST, not necessarily sport (anybody out there remember the Coliseum? oops... ) . I like the college games better, and High School when I am able. Why would I want to root for someone who is paid more in an hour than I am in a year? 2) Why should we promote "Recruitment Nights"? It almost sounds as if the Scout Leaders are paid by commission for each boy/girl they sign up. How can we not make it sound like that? Should not the idea (read all above) be not the numbers (Our Pack/Troop signed up MORE BOYS than yours ! ) but the reasons and the quality, Yes, we need to make our opportunity more visible and available. 3) ""All Scouting is Local"" if the County Cable Channel can broadcast the high school football game, why not the Camporee? Lots of competition there, yes? Anyone have a high schooler in your Troop with video skills and savvy, make up a 15 minute show about a campout or hike. Get those recently mentioned blind triplets on the air. Good news sells papers, too (if anyone would buy papers. You know what I mean). 4) Star Spangled Banner singing does not excite me. People kneeling can mean prayer (for our nation?) , it can mean "listen to the words, do not merely mouth them". It is a patriotic song, and patriotism CANNOT be enforced, it must be voluntary or it means little. How does one get folks to voluntarily be Patriotic? By example, by opportunity. Scout service projects can be the best kind of patriotic example. Citizenship? Stewardship of the land, conservation, respect for people and property, tolerance and understanding of "the other". Did I hear something about a Scout Promise? Promise to do .. what..? 5) Hiking, camping, Being Prepared for when the lights don't go on, being able to swim and save those who can't, tie a shoe lace that won't come undone. Has anyone out there ever been pointed out as "the Boy Scout" in a situation, no matter how mundane, and been EXPECTED to know what to do? it's happened to me more than once. 6) How to get the youngest of parents to understand that THAT'S what we are about? It ain't the glitzy uniform (that's just a part), it ain't the goody two shoes reputation (how does that apply?), it's not the impossibility of "being like that " (not everyone can be expected to be an Eagle Scout). If the parent has a Scout experience, that's a start, if it was a GOOD Scout experience. Many ,(most?) of the discussions here are about (to be polite) less than good Scout experiences, yes? My two step sons have grown into fine men, each different, tho they are twins(!), but because of the experience their bio dad had in Scouts, would have nothing to do with Scouting with me. Their younger days were tough, to be polite about it. My youngest, bio son, Joe, started out in Cubs and went all the way to Eagle, and he is doing fine. In discussion, he will admit Scouting helped him a lot thru his ADD stuff. How to get those young parents convinced they , too, can provide a "good" Scout experience for their boy (and dare I say it, girl)? 7) There is a spirit out there that wants , not uniformity, but CONFORMITY. Do what I want you to do, what I say is the truth, regardless . For us to encourage our youth to think for themselves, to be able TO DO for themselves, is , to some , heresy. The New England Town Meeting is to be copied, not forgotten as a historic relic. The idea of the Patrol as a gang of friends,, the idea of the Patrol Leaders Council as group to consensually decide things is NOT what some would like to see in our youth. Why? Isn't that what our nation was founded on? Scoutmaster. Committee Chairman: These are adults, but when the youth become adults ("We will decide what assisted living facility you go into, dad !"), what is the example they will follow? Enough venting/wondering/thinking out loud.... See you on the trail.

A fixed blade knife is safer than a folding knife with a weak spring. That said, why does the Scout WANT to wear the sheath? to excite his brother Scouts? To carve his turkey? To make fuzz sticks to start a campfire? To show off? I once had a Scout at summer camp who did not bring his Scout uniform. He did bring his junior size BDU, which was "just like dad's". I asked him, was he a Scout? , and if he was in the Marines, would he wear the inappropriate uniform? He was rightfully embarrassed, and we borrowed enough uniform parts so he could go to Flag, and not "stand out" , which he admitted he wanted to do. Seems often like this with sheath knives. Is the subject tool a 18" machete? a 12" K-Bar? Or is it a 5" Scout sheath with a bone handle his granddad gave him? Point is, "Is it necessary and useful?" Have the conversation.

Super story. Maybe I'm blind, too, but I can't see where these folks are. It says their adoptive dad works in Washington DC, but the rest of the paper seems to be in Louisiana ??

Ditto the previous. Scout should check with: 1) Scoutmaster. 2) other Scouts that have earned the MB. 3) District Scouters (find the RoundTable !) on the website . Merit Badge Counselors are "supposed" to be vetted /listed by the District. If no MBDean listed, ask the Advancement Chair. 4) Council Office. Ask for the District Executive or the Council Advancement Chair. If the Scout is not in the "18 rush", he should pursue the above. If you poke around Scouter dot com enough, you will learn that many of us here abouts do not often favor MB Universties or Days or such. Better the Scout work with a local MBC directly . Perhaps the Scout can help set up the Eprep event to help others get there !

Welcome back E. Your musings were missed. So far, I like to think all the kids I've met thru Scouts , and indirectly , thru the adult leaders I've helped train and encourage, are sort of my G-kids. I still like it when some strapping young man looks out over that store counter or bank teller window and says "Hello, Mr. L...." and then I have to adjust my memory to see that Tenderfoot in that bearded visage....

Most of the Scout world is Gender Neutral. Most of the modern world is gender neutral. When I was on the Camino de Santiago, I was gently surprised by how much was gender neutral. Banos/servicios in public areas (restaurants?) were very often not labeled by gender. The facilities in the albergues might be labeled, if they were "BIG " multiple use showers and toilets, but often they were individual use types. Bunk rooms were more often than not not separated by gender (!). In the morning, all you see are multi colored caterpillar-like sleeping bags. About the only example of gender separate facilities was the gymnasia municipale we stayed in , which was a "albergue especiale" because the regular hostels were full (a not unusual at all situation). Most on the Camino were/are adults, and the respect for one's privacy was impressive. It was seen as a need and was done. If there was a young couple traveling together, well, they were urged to find other accommodations.

Not everyone understands the real dynamic: That there are young females that want more adventure and less tea parties and crafty stuff... Are we "poaching" on "their" turf ? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dont-fall-for-it-girl-scouts-the-boys-only-want-you-to-save-their-own-hides/2017/08/24/d28c12b0-88d0-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html?utm_term=.f7870a7de6f9

Herr Oberst Flagg: entschuldigung, Ya, Puten, nicht Puter.

"The work is done by whoever shows up." With the paucity of folks dedicated to the "old style" of Scouting, such amalgamations are/is inevitable. By "old Style" (another discussion?) I seem to be meaning hands on, face to face, get dirty in the woods, camp out , learn "the way of the elders" ALONG WITH email, tweets, Power Point (death by), etc. If the new PTB think that no one wants to do the "old style" stuff (no one shows up at District training sessions? or they can't find anyone who will teach "Sharp Wood Tools" at IOLS , "they" will start to dom things "the modern way". Virtual Wii Scouting? Frinstance, I just met with a Scout dad (ex-Marine) who went to the Council office to pick up some official stuff and he comes back to report the Scoutshop no longer sells BSA hatchets. Pocket knives, yes. No big blades.

All good ideas. I would note the following (from personal experience at the Pack Meeting, CSDC and as a Sub Teacher, who has to jump in with two feet , so to speak) : The kids act like this for many reasons. Follow the leader, Get the Adult's goat, Make everyone look at me. I need to be entertained because I never learned how to entertain myself (these kids can't sit still 2 minutes, right? ) I can do whatever I want because nothing bad or good (!!) will happen. And if something does happen (good or bad, doesn't matter) , hey, it's attention to me ! What each of these reasons stem from is that the Parents are letting go early in the kids life. The kid (Cub, now, in your keeping?) hasn't had the parental attention they needed early on, to model/teach/reward good , social behavior or to rein in destructive behavior. SO: Take the main trouble leader aside and give him some "special" responsibility, and then PRAISE him/her (!) when they succeed. Help them succeed. If necessary, YELL, (""HEY"") but then bring your voice down to a near whisper so they have to pay attention to hear what nonsense( to them) you might come up with. It's a Patrol/Den , right? Look to their need to be in a "Gang". Take'm on hikes (with parent escorts !) , to the zoo, to the movies, and give them some "good gang" experiences. Give them the Patrol/Den pride of accomplishment, let the others see the need to rein in their buddy ( "hey , Nathan, quit being a jerk. Sit down for awhile.") . If you have to take each of them aside , in turn, to have that discussion, do that. Most importantly, remind them of the Scout Promise and Law. Sit down and discuss (that means listen to them, too) why the SP and SL are important. Are they good things to follow? Why not? AND, finally, set some rules with consequences (reward and punishment) and be consistent in their enforcement. NEVER set a punishment you are not willing to follow thru with and NEVER set a reward you cannot give when appropriate. Remember, these kids have an innate sense of what's fair, and they will call you on anything that is not consistent or appropriate. Oh, did I forget to mention the parents? Certainly include them. Make sure they know when Little Prince is not living up to the Scout Promise and Law, but ALSO let them know (in the Cubs hearing !) how proud you are of Magrid's help last night. Thank you for your service to our future, and.... see you on the trail. Thank you for your

Ask the SM to consider the Scout Promise. What is the first promise a Scout makes? His duty to God comes first, his duty to others is second and his duty to himself is last. If the Scout had a true emergency to meet (health, death, fire, you name it), would the SM really insist the Scout lead the Scout event? Every adult I know is asked to make choices. Things "come up". It's not a choice between his Scout Troop and a video game tourney. Ask your Scout . He knows what you want of him. He knows what the Troop expects of him. He knows what the SM is guilt tripping him about. In order to assure the event comes off successfully, he has organized and trained his ASPL (what a blessing to have such a friend, from your description !) , personally, I think he is being very responsible. . It may mean as Schiff suggests. The PLC may have to come to agreement to support their SPL . Teens at very aware of "fairness" and their stand might be the way to allow the SM to make the right decision. .

Never deny the Scout responsibility. Give him a job, help him define how to fulfill it, and STAND BACK. The biggest problem I find with today's kids is a lack of imagination. They WAIT for someone to tell them what to do. If you find a Scout who is bored and never seems to take any enthusiasm in the Troop/Patrol's events, give him something to do. Make him the Axe Yard Master. Introduce him to a Cub Pack/Den that needs a Den Chief. Ask him to plan a hike in his favorite park. He says he doesn't have one? Help him find the maps on Google. Or hand him the brochure!. Bugler takes a musician, but any school band member can handle it. Ever hear "Call to the Colors on a Saxophone ? It can be very nice. Maybe not a drummer, but hey, the British Navy "Beat to Quarters" before Bugles were common. Instructor... Nature, Totin' Chip, knots and rope, any boy would LOVE to be considered an expert. Encourage that sort of thing with contests and Patrol Competition. Make the acquaintance of the District Training CHair, see if he can recommend a Scouter well versed in any subject of interest. Librarian/ Historian? These can be a pencil whip PoR, or the Scout can show some creativity. Pictures? PowerPoint? Video show? Merit Badge Book collection promotion? It will be what they make it, or what the SM expects. What DOES the SM expect?

On my scroll thru, did I just see the mention of a "virtual uniform"? Press a button and poof, no uniform? Wouldn't that border on , umm , modesty requirements?

Bridget: Where are you when we need you? Like has been said (by me) in another thread, (can't get the italics off) , this one item is somehow indicative of the current brouhaha: 1) No one is required to join either organization. Choose the program that suits your kids' interests and your desires. 2) The present GSUSA and BSA have very different programs and philosophies. Units in GSUSA are owned by the local GS Council. All money and unit gear is owned by the Council and parceled out to the unit. Sell cookies? Council gets money. BSA units are owned by a local organization: a church, synagogue, fire dept. PTA, even a hardware store. Sell popcorn? Unit gets 1/3, Council 1/3, Popcorn 1/3. Unit can do what it wants with it's gear and money. 3) BSA: Leaders are recruited, trained, encouraged to get out and do stuff, especially let the BOYS plan and do stuff. There is a definite program of advancement and adventure. GS: If a woman wants to have a GSTroop, she can. If she wants tea parties, or fashionistas, that is what the GSTroop does. If she wants to hike /camp, she does. (she does?) BSA: many female leaders. GSUSA: Males are refused. 4) Membership: I once asked a GS Brownie leader to join us in a Cub recruiting event , she replied : “oh no, we don't want any more girls, we have enough." (?!?!?!) If the GSleader wants no more girls in her clique, she need not admit them. BSA: You better have a real good reason not to admit a boy to your Troop (Charter org only wants certain religion, for instance). 5) When the GSTroop members graduate, that's usually the end of that Troop. No continuity. My home BSTroop just celebrated 65 years. There are Troops 100 years old. 6) Echoing a previous comment, when a GS leader wants to operate her Troop ala BSA , she is often chastised and denied GS support. Smaller Patrols making up the larger Troop?? Older girls mentoring younger? Every girl having a chance to lead? Doesn't seem to fit the GSUSA model some how. 7) See number one again. See you on the trail.