SSScout

Hazing I say again, if safe behavior is in question, if poor choice of behavior is observed, the PL, or SPL, or APL, or the adult nearby needs to step in, CAREFULLY remove the tool involved, and take the Scout aside , and "Courteously" explain what is wrong. If deemed necessary, indeed ask for his/her Totin' Chip or Whitlin' Chit card. Any policeman observing really unsafe driving will remove the license from the driver. How is the Scout world different? Those cards are the Scout's "License" to use the tool, yes? If you lose your driver license from poor choice of behavior , how do you regain it? By following the law, and perhaps taking some "Safe Driver" training. Can it not be the same thing here? Probation? That is the means to prove, by good subsequent behavior, that one is worthy of the trust involved with "owning" a license. Can this not be the same with the Chips? Hazing is wrong and counterproductive. Public humiliation does not teach good behavior, it only creates anger and resentment . What behavior would you favor the Scout copy? Semi-bullying ? Or asking him/her to live UP to your standards?

It is not "Hazing" if done properly and if the result is expected. Every government agency, every company or organization big enough to be concerned about public performance or safety and accidents has standards of behavior, and consequences for not following those standards. Cause an accident? Neglect a responsibility? Reprimand in file, day(s) off work , forfeited annual leave,,,, Every state requires standards of behavior to drive a car, a truck, own a gun, practice medicine. Fail to follow those standards, lose something.... Throw a knife? Drop an axe? Threaten another human with a sharp tool? Lose a privilege. In the Adult World, it is called "Progressive Discipline". It is not hazing. BUT>>> Requiring a Scout to sing, IN PUBLIC, to HUMILIATE himself IN PUBLIC to regain his/her property, that is hazing.... PRAISE in public, DISCIPLINE, COUNSEL, ADVISE in private..... Scouts will emulate, copy, expect what they see their adult leaders do. They will copy, emulate, try to outdo, pass on ("well, he did it to me....") what they see, hear, from their SPL, ASPL, PL.... SO, DO AS I SAY< NOT AS I DO ? I don't think so.

Throw another IC chip on the virtual campfire...

Almost any responsible "legal entity" (ask the BSA Council to define that) can charter a Scout Unit. It is like a franchise. In fact, it IS a franchise. I know of a family owned hardware store that charters a Cub Pack. Up to few years ago, a military post could charter a Scout Unit, but because of Fed concerns about the BSA's membership requirements, that was stopped. If the PTO has scruples against being a Scout sponsor, go and find another sponsor. It is annoying and takes some doing, but there are lots of Scout friendly folks out there. And , think about it, you already have the Unit! Scouts and Leaders, fait accompli ! They just need to have the DE come round with the paperwork !

The PTO you describe is something I have never heard of. The School District sponsors the PTO? That means the School District is sponsoring the Scout Units ! The way I heard it, that can't be because of BSA's requirements, being a "private" organization. BSA Council needs to consider what it wants: A Scout Unit or consistency in it's recruitment. Of course, perhaps the new membership non-requirements (gender neutral, sexual orientation neutral) may allow such sponsorship, Wonderful, more opportunities for kids to be Scouts. Otherwise, check with your Scout Unit Parents, find a Lions Club or Kiwanis Club or Church or Temple or Volunteer Fire Brigade or American Legion to sponsor your Unit, all to the better. It will work our, keep on the trail.

No longer SM? Hey, you with the wealth of experience.... volunteer for IOLS instructor. Become a Unit Commissioner (for a different Unit! ). Ask the District Commish if there's a new Unit around that needs some finger pointing or head nodding. I think the idea " stick a fork in me, I'm done" is waaay off in the future. Smile and wave as you go by....

""Cardboard ""??

Owing to another thread (you pick it out) leading me to remember other camping trips of long ago (ahhh, the smell of roast loin of saber tooth . . .), I am led to ask: What items/stuff/things of note have you seen kids bring on Camping Trips, Hikes, Outings that on "adult" consideration, made you smile and shake your head? I will offer the seven day canoe trip down the Shenandoah where the teen girl brought a 8 Dcell boom box and a electric hair drier....

""I always try to tell the truth. That way, I have less to remember."" = Mark Twain =

NaClface: It is as it was told to me. I take that verse as referring to the 84 knots and MAYBE they can tell you what THAT one is....

"" If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."" = Red Green =

I would ask that any "Quote" be attributed, even if it is yourself. "The true meaning of life is the planting of trees under whose shade one does not expect to sit." = Nelson Henderson = In my collating/writing/editing/publishing/emailing of our District eNews, I always lead with a pithy saying, either serious or not so, but thought provoking. Yogi Berra and Mark Twain and BP are some of my favorite sources.

As in many things Scouty, "It depends". In order to take IOLS around here, you must be a "registered Scouter" (an adult Scouter with a membership number), and pay your fee. Any willing registered Scout adult should be allowed. We make it clear to ALWAYS use the same name in all Scout registrations, ( only John J. Smith, not Johnny Smith, or Jay Smith, or Smitty Smith or ...) as this will help eliminate the complications of inadvertent multiple registrations, which have been known to occur. The Membership number is supposed to be "National", but the registration is to the "Council", as it was explained to me. Also , ask about receiving credit for " , Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO), Outdoor Webelos Leader Skills (OWLS) and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills (IOLS ) concurrently, as some Councils will do. Saves having to take it a second time.

In today's 'merican society, kids are NOT encouraged to be responsible, to plan and DO things. Note what happened in Florida at that unfortunate High School, when the kids "took charge " of their dissatisfaction. Were the adults SURPRISED?? In my days as a Sub teacher, very few of my classes were eager to "take charge" of their lessons. 99% waited for instructions, for permission , for clues as to what teacher wanted them to do. Are your Scouts different? One of my favorite Scout memories involves a PLC that I sat in on. The SM was suggesting things, reminding about the calendar for the coming year, and the nascent 14 year old SPL and his (his!) PLs sat there, waiting. Waiting. The SM kept on asking open questions. The SPL eventually said "you mean, I can make that decision?" SM said DUUHHH !! and smiled. PLC went on and planned some good activities. Harry Truman was once asked what a parent should do to help their children be successful. He reportedly replied, find out what they like to do, and if it is not too dangerous, encourage them to do it. What else can Scouters do, except offer Scouts stuff to do, so they can find something they can enjoy?

Nothing wrong with resurrecting (hey, we just passed Easter !) an old thread.... The topic is one that keeps bubbling to the top of the stew pot. Again, we have the same ideas/problems/questions. Why have a Round Table Meeting? To what purpose? How to get folks interested in WANTING to attend? The nascent restauranteur is taught that it isn't hard to get the customer to come ONCE. The challenge is to get him/her to want to come the fourth and fifth time ! THAT's when you knw you re doing something right. "The beatings will continue until morale improves " is not only a joke, but a lesson to be learned. Not everyone has the temperament/experience/training/spirit to be a trainer or MC, if you will. You may proceed with the resurrecting....

Wasn't sure where to share this. Open Discussion it is. Useful as a skit, or an intro for an award night? Apologies to Dos Equis,,,, The Most Interesting Scouter He named his daughters “Powell “ and “Baden”…. When he went to Philmont, he gave the Tooth of Time a root canal…. His Scout Law has 14 points…. He is… The Most Interesting Scouter….. “I do not always go camping, but when I do, I go to ((insert camp name))” . “Stay Scouty, my friend”. He has a whole Totin, not merely a Chip. His “Good” Turn is really “Better”, and usually “Best”. Do not ask about his … “Bug Juice”. There are never any flies on his table. You will never know if he “Left No Trace”. The Big Dipper points to HIM. His “Bear Bag” really holds one. He went to “WOOD Badge”, not “WON’T Badge”. He once hiked the whole of the AT, because he had a cancelation in his schedule. He is…… The Most Interesting Scouter. “I do not always go camping, but when I do, I go to ((insert camp name here))”. “Stay Scouty, my friend”. When he pitches his tent, it is a “no hitter” . Someone once asked him what that “Square Knot” on his uniform was, and he told them. He has never said, ”follow me boys”, but they do, anyway. When he was a Webelos, he made his arrow ONLY out of light. At summer camp, he receives letters from YOUR family. When he starts a fire, he doesn’t need tinder or anything else. His fire wood knows what to do. Bears stay downwind of HIM. Mosquitoes do not bite him out of fear and respect. If you can see him, you are in his “blood circle”. At the evening campfire, no matter where he sits, the smoke curls AROUND him, and follows somebody else. When he holds up HIS Scout Sign, crickets become silent. His local restaurant put “Aluminum Foil Dinner” on their menu, just for him.

An idea that I always thought would go: "OutDoor Rec Rummage Sale" Needs: Your CO's basement Social Hall and parking lot. Organization. Tables and chairs. Good weather (!) Folks rent a table or Parking space. Sell their extra sleeping bags, tents, pack frames, hammocks. Promote to Troops, outdoor stores, private citizens. Notices in the newspapers/facebooks/community bulletin boards.... Your expenses are time and muscle to set up, MAYBE ads in the local penny papers. Your profits are the rent fees and (?) sales percentage, but I would leave it at the table rent.

To answer your query, I must go back to my Wood Badge. I signed in as a Assistant Scoutmaster, but I helped a lot with my wife's (she was the CSDC Director) Day Camp. When we began to discuss my possible Tickets, I proposed some ideas that included Cub Scout things . My WBGuide told me "oh no, you're a BOY Scout person. Your Tickets can't do Cub Scout things. Ummmm. Let me talk to the Director." He came back with the Director, and they both praised my ideas, but again , said, "so long as you are registered as a Boy Scout Leader (ASM) you can't do Cub Scout stuff. HOWEVER (conspiratorial smile), if you registered as a COMMISSIONER (here they handed me an adult application!), you could do things in ALL the Scouting programs !" "Great !" I said... "what's a Commissioner?" Sounds like Bill Cosby's Noah's Ark routine: "Right! What's a cubit?" So I signed on as a Unit Commissioner. Took the Commish training, did my Tickets, (Cub and Boy Scout items) and I CAN DO (almost) ANYTHING (!) that my little Scout heart desires. I work CSDC, Camporees, IOLS, I present to new units, I talk to newspaper people, I Chaplain at Jamborees and other Camporees. I eventually got named a Deputy District Commish, then when that was discontinued I was named a Assistant District Commish, then I became the Roundtable Commish. So that is my "fun" .

There are many Wood Badge facebooks. " Back to Gilwell" is one, and they get many overseas notations with pictures. Try them...

We are the results of our choices. Trust lost must be re-earned. Your manfriend (he isn't a "boy", is he?) is not family , yet. He shows much maturity by his patience. He should sign up in my dot scouting dot com and take the Youth Protection Training. I assume you have already, if you were a Den Leader. He will be accepted in the Scout "family" by his willingness to put the Scout's needs and activities first. It will come, but as has been said, right now , he is not "family" per Scout definition, but he is your "guest". Smile alot, accept the ignorance of others as something you may not change immediately. Educate them with your actions and forgive them their lack of tolerance (which is not the same as "intolerance", yes?) . Your comparison of your manfriend's history with that of others (small town, gossip, etc.) is understandable and IMO should not be stooped to in your efforts to have your son's Scout career include his new adult friend. Good Scouting to the three of you. See you on the trail.

Early on in my career as a parent, I resolved a couple of things. One, I would try very hard to always be truthful to my children in all things (even Santa Claus, another story), two, I would try very hard to never make a threat to them I was not willing to carry out (and then carry it out!) , three, if I thought something was important enough to require me playing the "parent card", I would (see number two). Weather clothing sometimes meant I had to play the "Parent Card". But I also reminded them that if it was COLD enough for a BIG COAT for me, it was cold enough for a BIG COAT for them !. 6 year old Daughter: I want to wear my polka dot dress. Dad: Yes, it is very pretty, and you are cute as a button in it. I do think it needs to go in the wash, tho, because you've worn it two days to school, and it is very dirty. Daughter: BUT I WANT TO. Dad: Yes, I see that, but I love you and I don't want your friends at school to laugh at you . They'll think you don't know how to wash ! And they'll think you don't have any other clothes! You'll begin to smell bad, too. Hey, I have more than one good looking suit, you know... Daughter: BUT I LIKE IT< I WANT TO WEAR IT ! Dad: Oh, I like it too, but I like it better clean. I will wash it tonight and if you want to wear it tomorrow, you may. Now, what else would you like to wear? You pick it out .... (Daddy voice) or I will pick it out myself.... Daughter: Promise I can wear it tomorrow? Dad: Promise.... Scene: Cub Scout Pack meeting. Young Cub has shown a habit of only just wearing his Cub uniform shirt, not even buttoning it up or tucking it in. Mom has sewn all his patches on correctly. Doesn't wear his neckerchief, his mom carries it . He seems to have fun with the other Cubs. I ask his mom (single mom) about this. She says he is uncomfortable in "buttoned" shirts. And says the necker is "uncomfortable" to him. Next meeting, I kneel down in front of him and say "Hey , Tom, let me button up your shirt for you. I know that's kinda hard to do, sometimes". His mom stands behind him while I do this. He does not resist. I ask for his necker and drape it around his neck, pull up the slide about half way. His mom has a look of concern, but Tom doesn't resist. I say "wow, look at you, handsome kid, don't you think, Ms Jones?" He comes to the next meetings buttoned and neckered and tucked.....

I am reminded of the IOLS scenario: The three words no SM wants to hear: "HEY, WATCH THIS !" Heal quickly and well, friend....

*sigh* ""I will do my best to - Be clean in my outdoor manners, Be careful with fire, Be considerate in the outdoors, and Be conservation minded. "" Now, all one has to do is define "considerate", "clean" and "conservation minded."

Farm Mechanics. At least two sessions, one in my workshop/back deck bench, working with handtools. Then we go next door to a neighbor's, who has a real tractor to look at and crawl around on. Learn what a Zerk fitting is, meshing gears. In between, they have homework, to find a tractor or a RIDING MOWER , not a hand pusher even with a motor. They are to change the oil and lubricate the turning parts. Extra credit if they can take off the blades and sharpen them, as they saw me do the first session, with a hand file . Second session, we go and visit a farm implement and tractor dealer. Big things taken apart, belts, gears, sharp moving parts. Thank you , Gladhill brothers. And we discuss what a good workshop might include/look like.

I am a firm believer in teaching history "on site" as much as possible. Book learnin' isn't as important as knowing WHO that person is in the old photograph. (any family albums out there need labeling? Once you're gone, no one else will know that's Aunt Mahitabel next to the old Buick...) One of my minor victories: There is a local restaurant, nice place good food, pleasant staff/company, that has lots of old historic photos on the walls. Garnered from a local museum and families. There is one that is of Finneyfrock's blacksmith shop. I grew up with my dad dealing with Dudley Finneyfrock, Jr. and this is a photo of Dudley's Great Grandfather standing in front of his barnlike shop, circa 1870. The coal fired forge inside was a part of Dudley's shop (updated and expanded tho it was) until it was torn down to make way for the intersection expansion in about 1970. This picture was rather iconic for the area, except no one noticed until I finally pointed out that the negative had been printed BACKWARDS. And yep, there it was, a sign in the background, backwards. We found a correctly printed version in a historic tome, so there was no arguing about it. Now, it's a conversation piece for the restaurant. Our kids are the less for not having the connection with where they came from. My Scoutson and others often ask me about when Georgia Ave. was only two lanes, instead of the six we have now.....