SSScout

1) Times change. People change. Expectations change. 2) Yep, if you are disadvantaged sufficiently, you can earn Eagle thru "alternative" requirements. A wheel chair bound Scout should be denied Eagle without a blink? Not very Scout-like to me... 3) My Eagle did not include a Service Project. But then, I learned Morse Code and had to identify constellations. Things change. 4) Are today's Scouts too protected? Possibly. Depends on the Scoutmaster and the helicopter mom that packs the kid's backpack. And the kid that let's her do it. 5) Are today's Scouts encouraged to hunt and kill animals? Only if they have a parent that enjoys such and teaches the Scout such. Scoutson once trapped, butchered and served up a rabbit to his Troop. His buddies thought it was not as good as the burgers in the other Patrol, he said. I had nothing to do with it, but thought , wow... He raised rabbits in 4H (barn had 35 rabbits in it at one point. Mini Rex. Won some ribbons.) 6) I know Scouting began in a desire to help make boys more able to be good soldiers. I would like to remind folks that later in his career B-P voiced the hope that the international brotherhood of Scouting would foster not so much better soldiers for their countries but a more peaceful world. I often pray that humankind might finally learn from their past mistakes. 7) Skills, independent thought and confidence in one's judgement, ability to make one's way in the world , either the wild part or the more civilized part. These are what I found I wanted for Scoutson. Despite the modern limitations, I think he gained a good deal of all that.

Yes, I saw that too. I wonder at a Cub leader who would "remove" a Cub from a Den, for ANY reason. 1) As in many events, perhaps we do not have all the information. "Chicken Gate"? What does that mean? 2) I would hope we encourage our Scouts to think for themselves. If Ames did his homework (sounds like he did?), he asked a reasonable question and got a reasonable answer from the Senator. 3) I am thinking, if I am still around in 30 years, and in his state, I might vote for him for governor.

I like Tampa Turtle's list. Note for the adults eager to "go to camp".... It is BOY Scout Camp, not MAN Scout Camp. Female adults? Them too. I am sure there is a volunteer program for the Scout Camp. TAt the NCAC camp Goshen , there are the Goshen GOATS. Put the extra adults on to this, I know the camp can use extra hands for projects and supervision, IF they have had the necessary training and registration. Adult registration? Dues paid? YP? SMS? IOLS? Back Country First Aid? Powder Horn? Put those Adults to work on behalf of the Scouts ! It is NOT a vacation, yes?

As in everything else in the world, we remember the things that are/were important to us. My phone number when I was in third grade: Walker 4-7221. Five things CAN make a skill remembered: Good, pleasant associations, Bad, unpleasant associations, Repetition, Need of use, and Pride of use. When I teach ropes and knots to Cubs, I try to give them pleasant, fun associations and repetition and pride. * ""Cubs, NEVER buy rope with only one end, such rope is inherently defective and will only give you trouble. ALWAYS buy two ended rope."" (Oh, the looks on their faces...) ** Show teach them some "fun" knots, like the Chain Knot, or the multiple string knot... *** Bowline? Show'em the three types ( only one will "pass" the requirement), the three ways to tie the correct one... **** "Mr. SSScout, what kind of knot is THIS (showing a jumble) ?" "What's your name, Scout?" "Tommy!" " Well, that's a Tommy knot !" ***** Tie it again, tie it to your neighbor, tie it on your mom's arm. Square knot? We tie each Cub's practice rope to his neighbor's, in a big circle, and see if we can tug-o-war the circle. Will it hold? Will any knot come loose? Granny, is it? ****** Scouts should always be given REASONS to practice these skills: Build a tower, a catapult, a gateway, a handwash tripod, (shudder) set up a tent/dining fly without bungee cords. ******* Patrol competitions in Troop meetings, in Camporees. Tie the knot/lashings the fastest, correctly. ""Oh, we have an emergency ! A Patrol forgot their tents ! We need TRIPODS and EXTRA LONG POLES to set up tarps for shelter ! Oh, who will be the quickest !" Itsbrian, if your complaint is valid (yeah, it is), the fault lies equally in the Scout's and his leader's lap. The Scout hasn't seen the need, hasn't had fun at it, and hasn't taken the pride in the knowledge. Give'm the opportunity. Give'm the "attaboys" when they deserve 'm. See you on the trail.

Install an E-Z-Pass gate on the CO's parking lot (tongue firmly in cheek).

Then, too, there is , perhaps , some precedent. Our school's fourth graders go to "Outdoor Camp" for three days each school year in a County Park. Bunk rooms, they must bring or borrow or get loaned sleeping bags. It is highly chaperoned and adult overseen by park people and teachers. It is not Cub Camping, not as we would like to think of Cub Camping., but for many of the kids it is the epitome of "roughing it". Some may not even see any sort of summer camp, not even a day camp thing, so this is looked forward to by all the kids. The school curriculum even includes some "training" for the kids and parent chaperones. (You want your mom on the camp with you? ) . And of course, some of the kids want nothing to do with this insult to their indoor/ipad/smartphone/computer ethos. Deal with it, kids....

*sigh* When my Fearless Leader told me (us trainers) of the email announcement ("Immediately", see above) he had just received , three days before our BALOO Saturday (requested and organized by a local Pack with parents who collectively had NO camping experience and wanted to give the Cubs the "adventure " they had been promised), we collectively said "huh?". F-L declared he would proceed with our original plans and he would send our collective protest to Irving via Council Training Committee. Our Saturday included about 20 adult Cubbers, from all around our District. We started in the aforementioned "church social hall" and went outside for equipment demos and the charcoal lunch: Hamburger and 'taters in foil. It worked. Lots of questions, lots of sharing of experience, no "death by powerpoint", not even a bruising by newsprint pad. F-L asked folks if they thought an overnight would have been a good idea, they reluctantly said , maybe, but again, how would they prepare for such when NONE of them had ever been Scout camping? Some summer camps back when they were many moon younger, but they were cabins and dining hall camps. We had many compliments and thanks from them in the evaluations. F-L and us trainers all thought, how much more trouble an overnight tent camp with well meaning Cub adults would be? We also do the IOLS, and that is a fun thing. Most IOLS folks have some camping under the belt and them that have help them that haven't. F-L and I haven't talked about the adjustment that will come . As was testified to above, regardless of the curriculum, "It Depends" very much on the Trainers.

EBoR s here abouts usually work like this: The Eagle candidates (plural! These are scheduled in advance !) bring their Scoutmaster to introduce them, and usually parents and maybe some other interested adults. There might be two or three EBoRs that night. Each EBoR is chaired by a District Eagle Coordinator (usually different from the one that counseled the candidate earlier), and the other Board Members (two or three more) are made up with the other Eagle candidates' parents or Scoutmasters. I have sat in on several such Boards. The Candidate's Scoutmaster (or designee) introduces the candidate to the EBoR and then leaves the room. He does not observe, that is considered a breach of etiquette . The "drafted" Board members might serve on another Board that night , if needed. It can be impressive or challenging or just fun, depending....

Is it "Boy" Scouts or "Man" Scouts ?

Back a few years, I served as a Chaplain at the 2005 Jamboree. The Scouts could earn a "rocker" for their Jambo Patch by going to the Relationships Pavilion and talking to their faith's exhibit folks. If they didn't have a "faith", they were supposed to speak to the "Chaplain on Duty" at the front of the Pavilion. I did that duty more than once, and the stories I listened to were either very personal (" I'm not too sure about this God stuff") or were just matter of fact ("Are you the man I speak to for my rocker?" ). They didn't have the same arrangement for the 2013 Jamboree, but I heard from my fellow Chaplains about some sit down and discuss sessions. Duty to God? Hey, what's God's duty to me?

Goats. What's a goat, when the challenge is fundraising? On another level, back in the days of "possible", for many years, my dad's Lions Club sponsored a horse show on a local farm. This was a traditional fund raiser and community event. ( as happens, the farm is now a shopping center. Sic Gloria Agricola). The event included dressage demos, hunter/jumping classes, big horse teams (Percherons, Clydesdales in 4, 6 and even 8 horse hitch), lots of horse events, dawn to dusk, all day. Us kids, many Scouts, all were put happily to work in various capacities. Messengers, escorting celebrities, policing jumps, handling gates.... Part of the event involved the raffling of a Shetland Pony . All us kids wanted to win that ! Regardless of the lack of acreage or fencing in our yards. One year, my buddy Henry and I were put in charge of escorting the pony around the County Fair while our dad's sold the raffle tickets. I remember loading the pony into the back seat (!!) of Mr. Stabler's Oldsmobile, big battleship of a car, and driving to the County Fair like that. Nice pony.... Ah, the memories....

qwazse: Said very well. Thee speaks my mind, friend. The perceived need to try and define YOUR belief by insisting you match MY belief has fueled more conflicts than any other reason. Christ may indeed be The Way , but other ways may well get you there, albeit in (what some may see as) a circuitous route. "" 519. The Humble, Meek, Merciful, Just, Pious and Devout Souls, are everywhere of one Religion; and when Death has taken off the Mask, they will know one another, tho' the divers Liveries they wear here make them Strangers. "" = William Penn, 'Some Fruits of Solitude' =

Bugling ! Good for him. As an "older guy", I teach Bugling Merit Badge. Tell your Scout that when he gets good at it, he can even make a little money (which he might want to donate to a worthy charity), by offering his services to the local VFW or American Legion. They are always looking for buglers for ceremonies, especially burials. And, check with Bugles Across America" http://www.buglesacrossamerica.org/ He can also find some old TV shows that featured bugling on YouTube: "Boots and Saddles" and "Captain Gallant of the French Foreign Legion" . The later will help him learn "Tatoo" and the French call to the clors !. Carry your bugle and be close by the SPL so you can serve the Troop at camp ! A tourist was lost in New York and was looking for that famous theater, Carnegie Hall. He saw an old gentleman coming toward him on the sidewalk and stopped him, saying, "Pardon me , sir, can you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?" The old gentleman pointed his finger at the tourist and declared: "Practice, practice, practice !!"

""The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up"" **Sigh** Lots of folks (I have a hard time calling some "parent") are sick with the "Soccer Syndrome". Symptoms: Desire to drop kid off and come back in three hours. Desire that kid become "good citizen" under tutelage of somebody else. ANYBODY else. How to combat this? I 'm not sure if anyone can. There is a fear that , now that I have a child, I will be unworthy/unable/unskilled/not knowledgeable enough to BE a parent. If you can only get the parent to participate , with the kid, (that's one of the ideas of the Tiger/parent pairing . yes ?) , on a Cub activity, they will see how easy it really is, and how much FUN it really is... I had the Nature Pavilion at CSDC one summer. One day, we talk about Leave No Trace. I set the Cubs up with their Buddy, and send them out on a short hike: Go straight out THAT way 100 paces, turn left, walk THAT way 25 paces, turn left and walk back to the pavilion, and pickup ANYTHING that God didn't put there. Boy , did we get a pile of trash. In the mean time, the adult "DenWalkers" stay behind and sometimes we talk about Scouting. One hour, this lady was on her cell phone the whole time: "I can't believe the work I will have on MONDAY !! Why couldn't someone ELSE do this?? Teddy doesn't need me all day ? It's so... " and she went on, oblivious to everyone else... It was sad, I couldn't break in....

"It Depends". If you're at a Camporee, by all means, label and organize. Troop flag/entry "Welcome to" sign... , Patrol flags, tents in nice "streets". Poles, label the Streets with paper plate, marker, duct tape. Mini City, earns a ribbon for the Patrol and Troop for "Camp Site " layout. Have fun with it, make it a creative thing for the bored Scouts that have "seen the usual Camporee". At Summer Camp, same thing. Take some pride in your campsite, doll it up, make it not only a "camp", but a "community". At one summer camp I attended, we totally rearranged the tent platforms into streets, etc. The camp inspectors basically dropped their jaws and said "wooow" as they walked around. No more tents here and there. Lashed together (Pioneering !) a "Gateway" with the flags and a carved (traditional !) sign on it. On the trail, I like the carabiner thing. But is your Troop so large that the Patrol Leader cannot have aegis over his Patrol's arrangements?

BALOO is/was the Cub leader requirement to take a Cub Pack camping. The old training was a long morning, afternoon of discussion, equipment demo, experience sharing, group dynamics study. We were recently informed that National has decreed a new set of curricula that requires (!) an overnight camp , sort of another IOLS for Cub leaders. The consensus around here is that the BALOO (lost the acronymic relevance with the elimination of the Kipling Jungle Book connection) was meant to be an introduction to folks that may not have had ANY camping experience at all, that Cub camping need not involve "roughing it". Why the desire to immerse newbies in an overnight, set up the tent, cook outdoors for a first time out kind of thing? And how hard is it to get Cub parent leaders out for an afternoon of training, much less a WEEKEND ? And why the "Immediately" declaration, rather than "as of...." sort of scheduling. Maybe Irving is seeking to employ the classic psychology of the "Cognitive Dissonance" phenomena. Make it so undesirable that it has to be desirable... http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-033(17)BALOO.pdf

Renting goats is very traditional. Folks used to do this waaaay back before power lawn mowers. Fence in the cemetery and turn the sheep and goats loose. A day or two later, close cropped grass ! Tether the beastie in your yard and move it around every day, trimmed grass. But one must be careful of the ddesired flower beds, poor goat doesn't know the difference between weed and begonia....

Lots of "if onlys" and "what I woulda dones" here. ""The work is done by whoever shows up"". Everybody (you, me, them) has to make choices as to what is important when. MB? Now? Is it possible to complete later? Will I be able to help at other service projects? Did the other Scouts voice the idea the MBcompleters had "diched them"? Is that where this came from? Did some other Scouts choose the project over completing their own MBs? Colors the issue.... The ASMs' alleged comments/diatribe/discussion might better have been done at a SMMinute. Make it obvious the values that are valued (completing assigned duties, project "cheerful service", supporting buddies, pride of successful completion), maybe the MB completers could have fulfilled their "duty to others" with another job... but that would 've been on them to offer, rather than the ASMs insisting, yes? This comes with maturity and experience. And, hey, what is Scouting about if not gaining maturity and experience? IMHO, the ASMs dropped the ball. Counsel the MBcompleters PRIVATELY. Give them the opportunity to Do The Right Thing themselves, rather than dragging them thru the gauntlet of the Troop. This ain't Marine Corps Bootcamp.

The three words no Scoutmaster wants to hear: "HEY ! WATCH THIS !" The point of this discussion I think is whether or not the SM can trust his Scouts, out of his hearing, not to say those three words....

1) BALOO trained . Check. 2) Schedule . check. 3) Insist on BUDDY SYSTEM... No one goes out of camp areas (define that !) with out a Parent or BUDDY and parent permission ! AND you check out with a Scout Leader (you ?) 4) Free time? Poke around in the stream and look for crayfish? 5) What sort of stuff does the Park offer? Night time campfire program? Astronomy program? Earn a Astronomy Belt loop ! Find the North Star! Tell some Indian Stories ! Why does the Bear in the Sky have a tail and the Bear in the woods/zoo has none? 6) Have extra sleeping bags/cushions/foam matress back in your car, just in case. Have lots of plastic bags big and small, for wet socks, shoes, etc. just in case. 7) Let/invite the Cubs to do as much as they can in the line of carry and schlepping stuff. Don't be afraid to ask the shy one to help with the fire wood. KiS MiF !

ItsBrian: Accounting the cost of something is always important. My wife always wonders why I like to sit down, add up the receipts from our vacation trip: Gas, restaurants, souvenirs, admissions, parking fees, motels, etc. From when we leave the house until we are back in our own beds. Was it worth the cost? Was renting a camp trailer better than staying in hotels/motels all the way? I might not include the new tires, the oil change, the tuneup and detailing the car, but still, it is good I think to be able to show where the money went, maybe next time a judgement can be made and not include this, do that differently. Food for the work crew is definitely to be included. That's the fuel that makes things run, yes?

1) Why I do not go to many (if any) pro sports games: It is intended as entertainment FIRST, not necessarily sport (anybody out there remember the Coliseum? oops... ) . I like the college games better, and High School when I am able. Why would I want to root for someone who is paid more in an hour than I am in a year? 2) Why should we promote "Recruitment Nights"? It almost sounds as if the Scout Leaders are paid by commission for each boy/girl they sign up. How can we not make it sound like that? Should not the idea (read all above) be not the numbers (Our Pack/Troop signed up MORE BOYS than yours ! ) but the reasons and the quality, Yes, we need to make our opportunity more visible and available. 3) ""All Scouting is Local"" if the County Cable Channel can broadcast the high school football game, why not the Camporee? Lots of competition there, yes? Anyone have a high schooler in your Troop with video skills and savvy, make up a 15 minute show about a campout or hike. Get those recently mentioned blind triplets on the air. Good news sells papers, too (if anyone would buy papers. You know what I mean). 4) Star Spangled Banner singing does not excite me. People kneeling can mean prayer (for our nation?) , it can mean "listen to the words, do not merely mouth them". It is a patriotic song, and patriotism CANNOT be enforced, it must be voluntary or it means little. How does one get folks to voluntarily be Patriotic? By example, by opportunity. Scout service projects can be the best kind of patriotic example. Citizenship? Stewardship of the land, conservation, respect for people and property, tolerance and understanding of "the other". Did I hear something about a Scout Promise? Promise to do .. what..? 5) Hiking, camping, Being Prepared for when the lights don't go on, being able to swim and save those who can't, tie a shoe lace that won't come undone. Has anyone out there ever been pointed out as "the Boy Scout" in a situation, no matter how mundane, and been EXPECTED to know what to do? it's happened to me more than once. 6) How to get the youngest of parents to understand that THAT'S what we are about? It ain't the glitzy uniform (that's just a part), it ain't the goody two shoes reputation (how does that apply?), it's not the impossibility of "being like that " (not everyone can be expected to be an Eagle Scout). If the parent has a Scout experience, that's a start, if it was a GOOD Scout experience. Many ,(most?) of the discussions here are about (to be polite) less than good Scout experiences, yes? My two step sons have grown into fine men, each different, tho they are twins(!), but because of the experience their bio dad had in Scouts, would have nothing to do with Scouting with me. Their younger days were tough, to be polite about it. My youngest, bio son, Joe, started out in Cubs and went all the way to Eagle, and he is doing fine. In discussion, he will admit Scouting helped him a lot thru his ADD stuff. How to get those young parents convinced they , too, can provide a "good" Scout experience for their boy (and dare I say it, girl)? 7) There is a spirit out there that wants , not uniformity, but CONFORMITY. Do what I want you to do, what I say is the truth, regardless . For us to encourage our youth to think for themselves, to be able TO DO for themselves, is , to some , heresy. The New England Town Meeting is to be copied, not forgotten as a historic relic. The idea of the Patrol as a gang of friends,, the idea of the Patrol Leaders Council as group to consensually decide things is NOT what some would like to see in our youth. Why? Isn't that what our nation was founded on? Scoutmaster. Committee Chairman: These are adults, but when the youth become adults ("We will decide what assisted living facility you go into, dad !"), what is the example they will follow? Enough venting/wondering/thinking out loud.... See you on the trail.

A fixed blade knife is safer than a folding knife with a weak spring. That said, why does the Scout WANT to wear the sheath? to excite his brother Scouts? To carve his turkey? To make fuzz sticks to start a campfire? To show off? I once had a Scout at summer camp who did not bring his Scout uniform. He did bring his junior size BDU, which was "just like dad's". I asked him, was he a Scout? , and if he was in the Marines, would he wear the inappropriate uniform? He was rightfully embarrassed, and we borrowed enough uniform parts so he could go to Flag, and not "stand out" , which he admitted he wanted to do. Seems often like this with sheath knives. Is the subject tool a 18" machete? a 12" K-Bar? Or is it a 5" Scout sheath with a bone handle his granddad gave him? Point is, "Is it necessary and useful?" Have the conversation.

Super story. Maybe I'm blind, too, but I can't see where these folks are. It says their adoptive dad works in Washington DC, but the rest of the paper seems to be in Louisiana ??

Ditto the previous. Scout should check with: 1) Scoutmaster. 2) other Scouts that have earned the MB. 3) District Scouters (find the RoundTable !) on the website . Merit Badge Counselors are "supposed" to be vetted /listed by the District. If no MBDean listed, ask the Advancement Chair. 4) Council Office. Ask for the District Executive or the Council Advancement Chair. If the Scout is not in the "18 rush", he should pursue the above. If you poke around Scouter dot com enough, you will learn that many of us here abouts do not often favor MB Universties or Days or such. Better the Scout work with a local MBC directly . Perhaps the Scout can help set up the Eprep event to help others get there !