John-in-KC

Ed, You see the practical application every time a PL sets down and they establish the roster for the next campout. There's a hierarchical way to do that and a collaborative way to do that. Modern leadership practice is moving away from hierarchical, especially at the work team and project level. Much more ad hoc collaboration. I'm not saying BSA has to follow every practice, but the folks who design training certainly have to be current on what is happening in our adult world. Sooner or later, techniques themselves become obsolete. We don't cut browse beds anymore, do we? Do we generally use helioarc signalling anymore? Do we dig fire trenches? Yes, someone, an expert someone, needs to revisit courseware and models now and again. My thoughts, Ed. We may disagree, unlike some other folk here, that's OK Have a great Pennsylvania workweek.

Not even glue, emb. It's some form of plastic fused onto the shirt. If it's as bad as the ink on Army nametapes (before we insisted on embroidered names), it'll be faded away in a year. I plan to find a couple of old shirts and salvage the strip from them, and replace the fusing with something which will hold up.

Huh? Not in my neck of the woods, your Honor. Our District and Council Advancement Committees are penurious with extensions, especially when the reason is entirely within the control of the youth members. Can you give some expamples of what your Council Advancement Committee actually approves for extensions? TIA

Yes the 1999 version shows on the national website. The concept is similar to Elangomat, it's called Nemat. The premises are: 1) Nemats work with Ordeal members during a service day to the Lodge, living the ethic of cheerful service. 2) Nemats ensure the Ordeal member has prepared his letter to the Secretary of the Lodge. 3) Nemats share and discuss the information imparted during the Ordeal. No, this is not the "Brotherhood Interview." There is no pass or fail, it's a guided conversation. 4) Nemats do ensure Ordeal members remeber the Obligation, the signs, and the OA Song. 5) The Brotherhood or Nemat hike is a guided reflection. The Ordeal members will be challenged to discuss, at several points, the concepts of our Order and what they can do in the future. 6) In my Lodge, the hike ends on the trail to our ceremony ring, where Kichkinet organizes them for the ceremony itself. HTH. ICS.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Mr Anderson, I was advancement Coordinator in my Troop. If you're not the keeper of TM, insist that the ASM holding TM send you updated reports regularly. I regularly saved out the reports as text files, formatted them as needed, and emailed them to the SM, CC, etc. IMO, you should have an excellent idea of what each Scout is doing, and you should actively monitor every Life Scout. Yes, I'm prescribing not describing, but it worked for me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ursus, When a young man holds many jobs in a short time, it becomes harder to see what challenges he face and how he rose to meet those challenges. Now, it's one thing if the timeline shows him elected as PL in Feb, asked to move up to ASPL in April because the ASPL moved away, and became SPL in June because the old SPL dropped out of Scouting. That I'll buy into. It may take a few questions to discover why he went that way, but I'll buy in. OTOH, if a Scout ties a month as PL, two months as OATR, two months as Librarian, and a month as a Den Chief as his POR tenure, I'm going to ask him about "Winners never quit, and quitters never win!" He has some explaining to do. There might be a valid reason, but he'll have to sell his story to me. Does that make sense?

acco, It comes from grownups playing nice, thus being able to trust each other. If you do not assess the Advisor as being Trustworthy, Friendly, Courteous, and Kind, or if you suspect the Crew will be an Eagle Mill, have a friendly call with your own District Advancement Chair. Let him give you what your District will/won't enforce.

Lisa, I'd spend a fair bit of time asking some leading questions about the potential Chartered Partner. See if they have a vision and goals for working with older youth. If they do, then the sales pitch on Venturing becomes much easier: You're helping market support to an organization which has an idea of what they want. If they do not have vision/goals, then don't push the sale, rather work with them as the Wood Badger you are, and help them draw out what they want to do and where they want to be. It may end up taking more time (several meetings perhaps), but it will help them get a win-win solution email en route.

Director of Field Service. Something which larger councils have, supervising two or more FDs. My council is big, E. My suburban district has a team of three Professionals: A District Director, a senior DE, and a DE. (In addition, the district director mentors (vice supervises) two rural district DEs). He reports to a FD who has half a dozen Districts under him. The other FD has another 5 districts, Exploring and LFL under him. Together, they report to a DFS.

If I were sitting an EBOR and a Scout came to me with more than two POR for his six months leadership tenure, I'd be asking lots of tough, probing questions. I won't say I'd vote to reject his elevation to Eagle outright. I will say I'd need a very good reason for many PORs before I'd vote for his elevation. I'd almost definitely ask for an adjournment of the board to Executive Session, call in the Scoutmaster, and ask him for some clarifying details.

If you want it for free, here is the Army manual: http://usacac.army.mil/cac/cal/FM6_22.pdf Courtesy of the Center for Army Leadership

There once was a mandate from National not to put last names online in unit websites. I can't find that anymore. Certainly it's a good practice not to use last names. Too many child predators are out there. A Pack website, names and contact info for CM and DLs, and a boy's last name? I'll bet a steak dinner at the Golden Ox with you that I can find an address, phone number, and elementary school. Do you really want to set up that level of risk for your youth? Here is a guidance page for Councils on information: http://www.scouting.org/webmasters/webstandards/03.aspx Not fully applicable, but of some use. Here is the guidance page for Unit websites: http://www.scouting.org/webmasters/units.aspx

Much of what LisaBob said In fact, much of what she said is how my Pack did it 40 years ago. This is a SPECIAL pack meeting, it's the birthday party for Cub Scouting. Sadly, the Council Solutions Group does not put the annual Cub RT guide and themes online, as does the former Boy Scout Division. Hopefully, this will change. From one website (kismif dot org), it looks like the Feb 09 theme (B&G Month) will be American ABCs. There's lots you can do within that, both to celebrate Cubbing and the American Indian. Whatever you do, involve the boys! If you bring in Indian dancers, make sure they bring out the Cubs to dance with them. When the kids can "ham it up" (no pun intended to the food), so much the better. BTW... spaghetti and meat sauce can be a fun dinner for kids, and relatively inexpensive (I've substituted ground turkey for ground beef more than once).

Never such a thing as a silly or stupid question. DE may want to know he has a unit serving leader spreading arcane knowledge, Indian Lore, and sunshine where it doesn't! DE's can fix that through the District Committee, RT, and Commissioner's Service.

Mr Anderson, Bob White brought out three important points: 1) Scrub your unit records very, very carefully. Make sure this young man has or has not completed the six months tenure in a Position of Responsibility. You might ask him what he has on his records! 2) If he has not completed a POR, then it's time for a SM conference for him, and for you to communicate with his parents: Eagle will not happen. He failed to meet requirements. Didn't know is not an excuse, the leadership requirment has been in the Boy Scout Handbook for many years, certainly through the current edition! 3) Regardless, SM should give him the name of a qualified MB Counselor for Camping. Twenty days and nights of camping isn't tough to get. BOTTOM LINE FOR YOU, SIR: Whenever recharter is, look at youth who've stopped attending. SPL and SM should contact them about retention. You do not have to recharter youth who are ghosts.

acco, Neil is right, see ACP&P #33088. Once a Scout has reached First Class, he may opt to transfer to a Crew and continue his advancement in Boy Scouting there. I would say to you if he does, fine. Just set a clear expectation that the Troop will not provide Committee folk for BORs, and you will not be available for their SM conferences, should a Crew organize.

Welcome to the Forums, BigEagle. Somehow, I suspect your DE is going to come back with some variant, perhaps even profane, of "SAY WHAT???!!!???" or "HUH??!!??!!??!!" Lisa... definitely for the Urban Legend thread.

What it sounds like, to me, is a big Roses, Thorns, and Buds session ... amongst the youth. I think there are some issues and challenges, let's get them into the open. Other than a facilitator (and I'd almost argue for a college student Venturer who is still inside the youth program himself), the adults should sit back and listen ... and be under an ironclad rule of no consequences for what any youth says!

Sounds to me like the cart is before the horse. Has anyone done an interest inventory of potential youth? What are the youth interested in doing? Venturing isn't just simply more camping and backpacking. It has multiple tracks based on the interests of the target population. Been there, done that on meeting concurrently. Doesn't work well. What is the Chartered Partner's vision for serving older teens? Co-ed? Single gender? Girls only? Someone needs to be talking to the IH and the COR. Someone does need to tell the "organizers" that if equipment is going to be shared, then there will be an inter-unit scheduling meeting, so that events are deconflicted. Sounds to me like smoke and mirrors to rile you, acco. I'd have a friendly cup of coffee with your COR, UC, and DE to share your concerns. This feels like someone (not you) is planning to fail.

Methinks there is some need for clear, FRIENDLY, COURTEOUS, and KIND cross-communication. Your UC and COR should be in on the communication to be sure that all are playing on a level field. Unit committees should operate by consensus, but when a support side decision needs to be made, the buck stops with the CC. I hope and trust the CC and the SM are in regular cross-communication with each other. I can see the worst of all possible worlds for quite a few parents if this issue gets pushed to the extreme: The COR elects to support the CC, and the people who have invested in enforced change are left holding the bag.

OGE: Last semester at Honor Band. Amongst the young men, no fewer than half a dozen Eagle Scouts. Among the young women, 2-3 GSUSA Golds. You'd be amazed at the Scouts I know who are into band and orchesta.

One other note: One of the best volunteers I've ever known is the Director of Support Services for my Council. His boys all went through the program. In his Troop, he was asked to be SM and was superb at it! Next year, one of our Reservation Directors starts his boy into Tigers!

As a new UC, I was with my Pack for Back-to-School night recruitment. We used many of the ideas above. PINEWOOD DERBY CARS are a huge Boy Magnet. Tell kids they and their Moms or Dads can build those, and WATCH OUT Next year a Pack Grandpa, a machinist, is going to built a small PW track kids can use. Scouts in Uniform (Cubs and Boys) is another Boy Magnet. They need to know they're not freaks alone. Scouters in Uniform is another Boy Magnet. They seem to "get it" that others are willing to give of their time to raise the next generation. Finally, since GSUSA wasn't present, we knew where a program was and we made sure girls expressing interest were sent to it We didn't try to close the sale. We were in the multipurpose area with school spirit clothing, the school bus folks, the cafeteria folks, and the school district after school program. What we did do was: - Recontact everyone, thanking them for their interest, and reminding them of the ice cream social recruitment night. - Invite them to a Pack activity between back to school night and recruitment night. - We'll recontact again before recruitment night. - Finally, this Pack is chartered by and based in an area church. It will use the next two Sundays to market within the parish. The marketers tell us we need 5-7 impressions before a product or service locks in to our minds. If I recommend anything about recruitment season, it's be deliberate in building your activities. Recruiting doesn't just happen, it takes some planning

Stosh overexaggerates, but their job is to have fun. YOUR JOB is to facilitate FUN. KISMIF.

TECH PROBLEM: Q 11 forces you to a number even if you answered Q 10 NO.

jet, Friday night, August 1 and Saturday morning August 2.