John-in-KC

Ed, The study of leadership as an academic discipline actually exists. The Army, at the US Army Combined Arms Center, Fort Leavenworth, has a full department of academics working on the study of leadership: It's called the Center for Army Leadership. Mother Army is willing to resource a senior Colonel to run it. Yes, even the Army has changed its model of leadership. When I entered service, way too long ago, we used the 12 traits of leadership as our basic learning model. We've moved away from that; we now use an ethic-based model for teaching leadership... BE, KNOW, DO. Without wading through pages of blah blah, here's one of the best executive summaries of the ethic I've seen: http://chiefskipper.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!A59D550BCED8263B!846.entry HTH.

Lynn07, What Beavah said: Practically speakin', Lynn07, yeh need to go talk to an "old hand" in your unit to learn how you unit operates. Like BobWhite, I generally would not recommend contentious votin' for positions either unless there's a long tradition of that and a lot of goodwill between folks. Scout units run best when fairly like-minded and caring adults work primarily by discussion and consensus in support of da SM. I reckon that's what you should strive for on your committee." It bears repeating

Reading through the thread, I distill about seven key points: - Do an in-person, on-bike recon. Make sure the route is what it's publicized to be. - Have several "check your bike" evenings before the ride. Make sure bicycles won't fail on the kids during the event. - BTW, check their helmets, make sure they fit properly. Bad helmet should mean no ride. - Have several 2-5 mile training rides before the big event. - Plan for and have support/assistance vehicles (sagwagons) no more than 4 miles apart. - Have a fun, carbo loaded, cooldown event (in other words, a picnic meal) at the end of the ride. - Make sure you timely plan your trip and file your Tour Permit.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Karnak puts the envelope to his head and says "Seven Years." That's the answer. The question is: How long will it be before the current olive green Merit Badge sash is no longer worn by Boy Scout youth? Why? Think of that Tenderfoot who just earned 3-7 MBs at camp this summer. Think of the second year scout, hopefully 1st Class working on Star, who now has 10-12 MBs thanks to two summers at camp and two program years in campouts and troop meetings. Who is going to make them buy another sash just to have the color of pants and sash match?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I have a friend. He's a licensed pyschologist (read PhD), and he specializes in academic and children's pysch. That means he's also a certificated teacher. He's studied both the new TLT and the older unit JLT. In the units he serves, he continues to use BSA unit JLT (the old curriculum). Key points: - Hands on. - Leadership development as a result of skills use. - More information for the youth. - Youth are not "in and out", they are in an immersion environment for a weekend. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Change gears: My last night at PTC a NAYLE class came in from their week out at Rocky Mountain. I was staying in South Tent City. The NAYLE children (I use that word malice aforethought) decided to stay up late and be rowdy, after the beginning of quiet hours. Saturday morning, they were up and in full rowdy at the Buster Brown Building at 530AM, a full half hour before the end of quiet hours. I'd wanted to sleep in to 7AM. Didn't happen. I guess a Scout is Courteous isn't part of NAYLE. My neighbors was also disgusted with their conduct; they were a couple who had their own plans for the night and day. If that's typical of the leader-learners being produced by the TLT/NYLT/NAYLE curriculum, I'm not sure I want youth I serve or support being part of it.

I've seen my professionals three times in the past two weeks: 1) Roundtable night, 7-9 PM or so. 2) District Commish meeting, 7-9 PM or so. 3) Back to School Night (major recruitment window) and District Committee meeting, they didn't stop from 3 PM when they showed up from Council offices until after Committee ended 9ish PM. In addition to my school district, two other area districts started this week, and 3 more start next week. Professionals will be on hand for all of those. Worked FOS call bank this spring. 4 separate nights, all 3 professionals working 6PM to 9PM and after. Folks are not kidding when the recommend you evaluate the time commitment. As a unit serving DE, you are sales on salary. You and your family need to understand the time and energy commitment to get out of the starting blocks. I have enormous respect for my 3 professionals. They work very hard. I'm convinced one will have a Council of his own, if he decides he wants to move. One volunteer's perspective

Brian, Having swum for Taft High School all those years ago, I am also delighted at the success of Brian Phelps. I can see what the next generation of coaches are going to be looking for: Genetic big feet! I grew up in LA, went to Santa Barbara, and then spent a career with Mother Army, active and reserve. I've lived on the Missouri side of metro KC since 1989, but it's a 10 minute drive to be on the Kansas side. In fact, today I had to do a 4 stop trip to pick up all manner of stuff, starting in Riverside, MO, and ending at my council service center. Enjoy the time mentoring young men. You are the third concurrent LDS/traditional Scouter I know. A good friend is about to step up from being a District Commish to being an Assistant Council Commish. She's going to be the Dean of our Council (and perhaps Central Region) Commissioner College this coming February. She and her husband are living examples of what right in Scouting looks like

For recreational outings, I have my Army Gore-Tex or good ol' rubberized nylon. It works for me, especially after the heat of summer. For heavy camp maintenance work, I go with my older heavy rubberized nylon Army gear. I want stuff that's abusable. As BW mentioned, there are newer fabrics since the basic Gore-Tex patent expired. You need to see what works for you. BTW, I still keep a poncho in my ruck. Makes a good ground cloth

Pessimism about the economy? You bet!! Have a friend. He's a great Scouter. Had a six digit job in IT sales. He's been laid off; the customers are not renewing contracts and are declining options to buy. That's on the good side of my metro. I don't know where you are, but around here, as I said, I know kids who are doing chores for folks... but their money isn't discretionary for them! It's basic needs for the family... food, shelter, clothing.

Had to run down to Council Office today, to pick up recruiting materials for units I serve. Stopped by the Scout Shop and read Requirements #33215 (2008). The material on the BSA Advancement website is verbatim from Requirements. So, units requiring both a Whittlin Chip and a Totin Chip are ADDING to BSA Requirements. The Totin Chip covers the learning and certification tasks.

Once upon a time, all we had on our uniforms to distinguish ourselves as Arrowmen was our Lodge flap (and I can remember when those were precious to dole out!) and our Universal Arrow pin/ribbon. The sash was reserved for OA events. That was 1970. Now, we have multiple flaps, "pocket rocket" miniature sashes sold by Supply Corporation, totem necklaces (my Lodge for sure, I think others), and on and on. I'll gladly let a young man define "special Scouting events" as is in the current Handbook for himself. For that young new Ordeal, his first Troop meeting after the Ordeal may be a special Scouting event. For me, I wear mine less often anymore. That's ok. ICS

TheScout... I know families out there where the kids do earn money from chores ... and it's part of the basic family budget. Three generations ago, a kid could take 2-3 wool blankets from home and use them for his bedroll. He'd cut browse in the field for his bed. Have you priced a wool blanket recently? Army surplus, which is about as cheap as it gets, is $35 a pop. A regular wool blanket runs $100 for a twin. CUT BROWSE? That's the antithesis of LNT now. Remember the adage: A recession at your home, where Mom and Dad are working, is a Depression at mine... where they are unemployed. Take a deep breath, and walk a mile in the shoes of these young men whom we as Scouting need to serve.

diogenes, Glad for the feedback Good to hear all happened fairly well. A couple of specific comments: - In my neck of the woods, a non LDS young man sought to join a LDS Troop. His parents were told he'd get access to Positions of Responsibility only after all LDS members had been accommodated. Don't know how your Wards and Stakes work, but that can be a huge show-stopper. - Again in my neck of the woods, I have a young man who is 1/2 mile from his neightborhood Pack, and 20 miles from his Ward parish. Dad is leaning towards placing the young man in neighborhood Cub Scouts, for similar reason you chose electrons to support BORs. A gallon of gas each way adds up. He's getting incredible pushback from his Ward leaders. Sometimes common sense on both parts works. - As we discuss common sense, I know LDS has waivers from National to charter as few as 3 youth into a unit, vice the normal 5. Even so, it's hard to have the miniature representative democracy that's part of the Scouting program with single Patrol units. It's hard to put together the capital resources (stoves, tents, fire barrels). I don't think there's a Troop out there that doesn't have some local implementation of a BSA practice. If common sense says the best program for the youth, as a whole, is one Troop and multiple patrols, do what's right, not what the bureaucrat says he wants to see done.

IMNSHO, after 38 years as an Arrowman and living by the ethic of Cheerful Service,... 1) The Lodge Leadership, youth and adult, have to make Cheerful Service the thing the Lodge does in life. Be it camp staff, be it off-season service days, be it induction weekends ... a healthy Lodge lives the ethic espoused in our 3 Ws. 2) The Lodge Leadership, youth and adult, also have to actively offer fun and adventure, both locally and away. Winter Banquet (which isn't quite an all-day affair in our Lodge), trips to conclaves and conferences, participation in OA trail crew for the HS aged members, Chapter or Lodge lock-ins for fun, special cracker-barrels at Camp, all contribute that membership in the Order is worthwhile. 3) The Lodge Leadership has to ensure that members remember that their Troops are the first place of service and growth. When leadership encourages members to be better Scouts, this becomes a win-win. My thoughts.

The only time/distance requirements in the current Cub Scout Activities and Sports Program Guide (#34299B) for the Cycling Pin are: - Belt Loop requirement of a 1/2 hour ride. - Requirement 1, to document 10 hours of riding. If you think all your kids can hang for 17 miles, and you think it will add significant value towards the Cycling Pin, go for it. Are your kids conditioned such that a 17 mile ride isn't going to have parents reaching for the muscle ointment the next couple days? I like one thing Philmont Camping Headquarters encourages: We'll all make it. An event like this needs to be structured for teamwork. If that means shortening it to a 10 miler, do it!

Lisa, Reading the language in the G2SS, I'd bet a steak dinner at the Golden Ox BSA lost or settled a lawsuit involving Cub Scouts, a range, and an injury/fatality. BSA follow-on response was to shut down Cub Scout shooting sports at non-BSA facilities not staffed by BSA trained folk. The cynic in me thinks that part of the reason BSA trains us is to be able to repudiate our actions ... when we are just plain grossly negligent in our actions as leaders.

If you have MS-publsher, it has several pre-set formats. I've made my own using various BSA/Council logos and the right lines. Since you're someplace in EUCOM, take a look at an ARCOM, AAM, AFCOM, AFAM, or unit certificate of achievement. It'll give you ideas!

THIS JUST IN Posted yesterday by jmwalston: "I thought Whittlin' Chip taught proper use and safety of a pocket knife. Totin' Chip taught proper use and safety of a bow saw, hatchet, and ax. In the Troop I work with, Scouts must have Whittlin' Chip to use or carry a pocket knife on outings." Refutation: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/advancementandawards/meritbadges/totin.aspx Key sentences from the website: 2 Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw. 3 Use knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings.

From the website: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/advancementandawards/meritbadges/totin.aspx Totin' Chip This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following: 1. Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook. 2. Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw. 3. Use knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings. 4. Respect all safety rules to protect others. 5. Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and good reason. 6. Subscribe to the Outdoor Code. The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility. Well, I have a new piece for the Urban Legends Thread: Have to have a Whittlin Chip and a Totin Chip

At least one method is common to all three programs... From the websites: Cubbing http://www.scouting.org/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/pandm.aspx The Ideals The Den Advancement Family Involvement Activities Home and Neighborhood Centered The Uniform Boy Scouting: http://www.scouting.org/Media/FactSheets/02-503.aspx Ideals. Patrols. Outdoor Programs. Advancement. Associations With Adults. Personal Growth. Leadership Development. Uniform. Venturing: http://www.scouting.org/venturing/about//venturing.aspx Leadership. Group Activities. Adult Association. The youth officers lead the crew. Recognition. The Ideals. High Adventure. Teaching Others. Ideals is the common method of all 3 programs.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

gwd, Have already heard of at least one Professional having his bellows pockets over-sewn shut on a "business" uniform. Back in the days of Battle Dress Uniform in the Army, I knew troops who did that as well. Bellows pockets are a great idea... until you ruck up or buddy up and set your backpack. Then, rather often, guess what rides on the pocket? Yep, your pack straps.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

This started while I was off on my Philmont Vacation First, I see the emotion and the frustration in eaglescout2007. Change has happened, we're not sure why (him or us), and the result is frustration within the Lodge. OK. There's some good advice here. I think it boils down to: 1) Executive committee of LEC (Lodge elected officers only) need to sit down with their Adviser. List out the issues they have 1 to N. 2) Do a preliminary cull: These are the issues we think we want to discuss with the SE. 3) Push out to the Chapter Chiefs. Give them the 1 to N list. See what they add, and how they rank order it. 4) Consider the Chapter Chief input. Finalize the cull list: These are the top 3 or five issues we want to discuss with the SE. 5) Do the homework. Know the budget and time impacts of each issue to be discussed. 6) Throught the Staff Adviser, invite the SE to a LEC Executive Committee business meeting, or, call on him for a business meeting during Council business hours. Easily, with maturity, raise the issues and ask for honest answers. I hope your Lodge Adviser concurs with this kind of thoughtful, non-confrontational approach.

OK, understand now. Thanks.

I was just working with a Committee Chair in my area. Here is something which might help: http://old.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf "Selecting Cub Scout Leadership" Do I advocate slavish devotion to this process? No. Is it worth looking at to see what ideas you can leverage from it? Certainly. Key takeaways over the years: 1) Approach people as individuals when recruiting. 2) Commit to being alongside as they train up 3) Thank them for helping if they volunteer. If they don't, thank them that they are there for you to call on again someday.

My only questions... Were there sufficient young men to cover the NYLT staff? If not, why not?