John-in-KC

Stosh, I think most of the regulars here are coming around to the Beavah "let's ask some questions and see what's really going on" school of internet Scouting support. Our challenge is too many new arrivals show up on our doorsteps with little training and less patience. They think the program should look like X, when the literature says ABC. Much as BW is the penultimate pedant, his mantra of "take more training" is useful and reliable. As for me, when I see most of these "how do I...?" questions, my now stock response is sit down and have a quiet conversation with him. Won't always work, but it's always worth the effot.

What CalicoPenn said! As MB Counselors (and I counsel 2 of the 3 Citizenships), our job is to share with the youth, to inquire of the youth, and most assuredly not to make them "recall on demand." Look at the requirements. Figure out what places to go and things to do are readily in your neck of the woods. Be a resource to the kids, and, as CP said: HAVE FUN working with them!

Welcome to the forums, and welcome back to the grand game. Don't worry about double-clutching, everyone has their chance... some more than others If you've had leadership psych and soc along the undergrad or grad school road, you'll find Woodbadge a review of plowed ground. The friendships, though, will be fantastic. By all means take it. If you want a grand weeks' vacation, consider taking a course at Philmont Training Center. Your bride, your kid(s) (by then mebbe more?) and you will all have a grand time... and you'll learn as well. Enjoy the trail

I have a practical question for many: How many properties do you think BSA can develop as training centers? Where will the money come from? One of the great guys at Philmont is one of the commissary truck drivers, "Clutch." He takes rations into the backcountry to re-supply the staffed camps with food for crews to pick up during their treks. Wonderful gentleman ... he's also the President of a Boy Scout Council back in South Carolina. I think it was Tuesday evening, Clutch, Brian Gray and I were havin a conversation about the facility itself (remember, the operating groups of volunteers and professionals make the conferences happen). Mr Gray is looking to add a building to the facility. He has the need for it, but it's going to take a major donor to step up. New construction for high-end academic space can run $1 million a building. Is it really the best use of limited resources in BSA to have multiple National level training sites?

T26watcher, If, for whatever reason, a MC formally left the Committee, your Chairman and COR should be gracious and send them a nice note thanking him/her for their service to Scouting. I know how busy Registrars and support staff are, especially this time of year. There's lots of advancment reports flowing in, even with internet advancement. Do not be surprised if this Scouter is still on your rolls when recharter rolls around. It's real easy to administratively remove at that point... you uncheck him/her for renewal.

OK, once and former Boy Scouts... time to 'fess up... Who actually got a corner cut on their Totin' Chip? In my Troop (1969), the SM gave you your Totin' Chip with the first corner cut already provided... by him... He thought 4 was too many chances.

Lisa, Maybe we can establish Camp Osawippe as a re-education center.... Bwooooohahahahaha... (ducks and runs)

From G2SS: "The use of liquid fuels for starting any type of fire is prohibited." http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss07.aspx Boldface denotes policy. I can see how that morphed into an urban legend of no liquid fuels... Here's one that just got changed: Remember that we could not have passengers in the beds of pickup trucks? OBE, folks. Here are the cites: Under no circumstances are youth to be carried in the bed of or towed behind a pickup truck. The beds of trucks or trailers must never be used for carrying youth. http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss12.aspx#b XII. Transportation: Campers, Trailers, and Trucks The word "passengers" was changed to "youth" in the first paragraph. http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gssay.aspx (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

There's a saying written by WEB Griffin, author of the Brotherhood of War series. It's attributed to a 3 star general during the Korean War: "Regulations and Policy are for the guidance of a commander. I command this Corps, which is a horse of an entirely different hue than administering it to the satisfaction of some administrative chair warmer back in the Pentagon." I had two great professional mentors as I moved up the food chain in the Army. Both knew the books fore and aft. We'd play "stump the chump" with each other visiting each others house regularly. We left that behind when we walked in the door. "Knowledge is power... but only when it's shared" was the mantra of both of them. From them I learned... it's not just the head knowledge, not just the heart love, but head and heart together which makes the best people. There are many here whom I thank for sharing that combination of head and heart: Barry, Beavah, and Lisa, emb (he's at PTC right now), Crew 21 Adv, Gonzo, Gunny, OGE, E, and Narraticong all come to mind, among many others. The program materials we use are tools. Our head and our heart help us decide how to use them. As Lisa did, sometimes, asking for a textbook answer lays out a usable framework for problem solving or decisionmaking Finally, the time we spend with friends and acquaintances matters. Whether it's a poster asking here, or a CC asking "Has anyone ever seen my unit commissioner?" in the field, taking time to talk with that person, determining the scope of a units' problems, goes a long way towards assessing the tools we'll bring to bear. Is this an adjustment to be done with a torque wrench, or is there a problem worthy of bringing in power tools? I've learned now to counsel stop, wait, let's go someplace and talk over tea/coffee/cocoa and see if we can decide if we're going after a mouse, a deer, or an elephant! Good night, all (RFE: bbcode)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Crew 21 Adv, One of the things I like about PTC is the quality of the family programs wrapped around our training. The year EagleSon went with me, he went out and was challenged on his own trek. The young adult he is today is the better for that experience. The kids, from toddlers up, do have excellent support. The pre-teens, boy and girl, are basically given a week of camp. They get COPE, a trail day, and an overnight out in the backcountry. The spouses do all manner of stuff. Some this year went to Santa Fe, Taos, and Angel Fire. Credit Cards... CHARGE! Moxieman commented that you have to be careful in your subject area. I tend to agree. If you're a near expert in your field, you may not need to take the training. That said, expanding your resource base is always a good thing. That was the biggest long term benefit of WB to me, and it's also the biggest long term benefit of PTC. I'm better able to serve the units I work with for becoming friends with a host of people Of course, at the moment times aren't easy. Attendance was down this year at my week year over year. Part of it was "where does the money go?" The daily commute isn't cheap. Putting food on the table, paying the mortgage, and paying the next generations education isn't cheap. I wish for others the experience, but I pray it happens for them on win/win terms!

OGE: I do not think so. At the Monday general assembly of all adults (participants and spouses), Brian Gray, the Director of PTC, welcomed us to PTC, "the BSA's Volunteer Training Center." I know the first BSA/LNT co-sponsored LNT Master Trainer courses were run at both Philmont and Northern Tier. Remember, it's not just the scenery. BSA has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into physical plant as well as technology, and site-wide wi-fi. The peer sites are university classrooms. We'd be in dorms or hotels instead of PTC's tent cities, the course price would go up, and the after-hours opportunities would go down. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GW said, in part: Expensive is in the wallet of the payer. Agreed. My trip this year was a significant budget item for me. $350 conference fee, plus 1200 miles driving, plus two overnights in transit. It came on-budget over a year earlier. Since EagleSon had a camp staff contract (and this year may be his first to receive staff scholarship foundation $$$), and since EagleSon had just gotten back from his graduation trip (Missouri Ambassadors of Music two week trip to Europe), he didn't go this time. That $250 just wasn't in the cards. Heck, yes, I enjoyed the trip from the educational and the vacation aspects. Even so, it was most deliberately planned. My thoughts(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Pack meetings are times to be FUN, and for the Cubs to strut their stuff. They are not times for the administrative business of the Pack. Keep it fun, keep it moving along. Leave the calls for help, paid commercial messages, ad infinitum to Committee and parents newsletters.

Announcements, Announcements, Announcements... Words of Wisdom, Words of Wisdom, Coming Now (NOT!), Coming Now (NOT!) Boring words of wisdom, Boring words of wisdom, Coming Now (NOT!) Coming Now (Not!)... Announcements, Announcements, Announcements... We sold our Cow, We sold our Cow We have no use for your bull now!

One young man in my Troop, a few years back, did the Veteran's Oral History program for the WWII vets in our chartered Partner, a VFW Post. It was his ELSP. The youth of the Troop (and on occasion adults) conducted the interviews. Other kids worked camcorders. The data was dropped to 3 CDs, one for the veteran, one for LOC, and one for the VFW post. One of the best non-brick and mortar ELSPs I've ever seen.

ANNOUNCEMENTS!! Helps keep the commercial messages in the Pack newsletter and email... where they belong!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

AOL. Scouter's Key (Green and white) Adult religious recognition Row 2 right now is blank. Should I ever receive recognition at higher levels, probably only the highest recognition. That's the same as now... I CAN wear the Scouter's training award (all green) but the Key implies deeper training and service. Now that I've seen the PTC award cycle, if I earn it, it may go on someday. If I understood the memo we got correctly, the knot requirement is: - Attend another course - Be in a teaching team to teach a course - Recruit 3 others to attend PTC. I think that teaching a course matters. My saying is "Knowledge is power... only when it is shared." I think Waite Phillips said "The only things we keep are the things we give away." I despise "I've got a SEEEEEEECRET" headgames. E, you're the one who taught me the benefit of, if I ever get it, having the West award on at least one uniform shirt. Sadly, money does talk, and if it'll open a door for the youth I serve, I'll shamelessly take advantage of that. Apologies to all for the ramble.

During the season, in my council: Scout program comes first, BUT: - Units may rent facilities during change day or break days. - Other programs may rent facilities and share the camp after the program needs are met. The annual calendar is opened for the next season in October. It allocates space and time first to in-Council units, then to OOC units, then to other programs. Out of season, it really is first come, first served. Exceptions are Council and District level events.

BadenP, Sir, am I correct in reading your post as: "The mechanics of BSA's procedures must be applied using the Scout Oath and Law. In other words, if someone must be removed from a Scouting position, we want to do it with care and respect for that person." ??? As a broader brush comment, any endeavor involving interpersonal relationships demands care and compassion as well as correct mechanical procedures. Using procedures mechanically, without care and compassion, causes a person to become a pedant.

No, it was not political. Communicate, communicate, communicate. There are very few problems in Scouting which can't be solved if we all act like the grown-ups we are and have a quiet, mature, conversation. The advancement rigor in the Cub program is "Do Your Best." While I agree with Lisa's post, if there's a real problem in your Pack's Webelo advancement, call the District Advancement Chairman. He'll sort you out. Read Lisa's post. Her last paragraph has a good insight.

Have your COR discuss the issue with your Council SE. Make sure he says "Have you violated your charter agreement with my Partner?" That'll spin up the SE.

Gunny and Lisa, Army had a policy from sometime in the 90s... no tatoos below the rolled BDU shirt or below the issue underpants (Army issues briefs from Defense Logistics Agency). Right now, as I understand things, Company/Battery/Troop commanders are responsible for looking at their Troopers and making calls. Administrative management tools available include Bars to Re-Enlistment and Suspension of Favorable Personnel Actions (aka 'flags'). That means no awards, promotions, schools and such. Army has had a long-standing policy against inflaming comments, art, etc. Part of it is a response to KKK, some to neo-Nazism. Many tatoos will fly, but a Trooper would be told something like "Specialist Smith, those marks are prejuidicial to good order and discipline. Remove them by XXX date, or I shall have to bar your from re-enlistment." There'll be some documentation of the order to remove the tatoo.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Cubbing is not difficult. If a kid isn't advancing, a quiet, mature conversation between the DL, the parents, and the CM is called for. Remember, the advancement rigor in all things Cubbing is "Do your best."

The 1:5 Ratio is for safety afloat not Safe Swim Defense.

I grew up in California. Plenty of high adventure in our own Sierra Nevada range. Didn't have to worry about Philmont. We did our own planning and didn't have guides. Go for it. Sounds like the ASM might have his own agenda. While the kids are pitching this to the SM and the PLC, maybe your husband should have a quiet cup of coffee with the ASM. A little cross-communication might do wonders.

Let me make this real simple: Before the sun sets, tomorrow, find your District Advancement Chair and have a cup of coffee with him. There seem to be a fair number of moving parts, not to mention a small amount of emotion, tied up in this young man and his long-suffering project. The approved concept of the original project sounds fantastic. The execution sounds like there are lots of lessons learned to be absorbed by the young man. BUT!, he hasn't finished the original after-project write-up. Did the supported agency sign off? If so, it's time for you to decide if you will sign off, or not. If you choose not to sign off, you still need to visit with your DAC; there are appeal rules you must inform the Scout about. Visit with your DAC. Broaden the bandwidth on this conversation. Do it tomorrow. PLEASE.