John-in-KC

Lee is something of a hero to modern Army officers. He's an example of someone who held to his personal and professional ethics. He, along with all but one US Army officer who went to the Confederacy, was fastidious to a fault in settling his affairs with the United States before offering his sword to Virginia. No one can stand up to the scrutiny of history without error, except the Christus. Historians learn to judge based on what the character was at the time... unless they are revisionist in nature.

A followup... I'm cleaning out EagleSon's bedroom after his departure for college. I just encountered a 2006 BSA Supply Division annual catalog. There, on the front cover, for God and everyone to see, is a Texas troop welcoming a bridging Webelo. In the background, what do I see? Yeppers, Arrowmen wearing their sashes and (horror of horrors ) a Eagle Scout wearing his MB sash folded over on his belt. And that gives me perspective on the whole thing: If National Executives aren't losing sleep over absolute precision, than why should I? I've said more than once here, BSA devotes minimal resources to compliance on this matter. There's not professionals charged with uniform accuracy. In fact, the National Professional Service, as seen on more than one occasion, lets photos go to Nationwide press with "technical" errors. I'm not going to lose sleep ever again about a young man putting whichever he chooses his second sash over his belt. In fact, I may well compliment him on the fun he's having in Scouting.

Maybe folks are learning lessons. Maybe. Anyone care to bet on how many folks are going to stay behind THIS time? Looking at the most recent map of Gustav compared to the Gulf states, this thing is reasonably big. I think the Republicans are doing the right thing in turning the big production into a short administrative affair. I'd send all but 50 delegates home... one for each state, and shrink the size of the thing down to one hotel conference room. Then I'd ask the delegates to donate what they would have spent to the American Red Cross... and to donate blood. Someone said it a couple days ago. Conventions the last few cycles are nothing more than 4 day infomercials.

I assume you are the SM, CC, or COR concerned. If not, let them handle it. Let them be the representatives of Scouting. As far as what to do, assuming I was in their shoes, I'd have a very polite word with them, then, drop it. If I was the Scoutmaster concerned, I might have my UC or COR have that polite word. If I was SM and felt supremely strongly about it, I'd make myself not available to the function. The fact of the matter is you only have moral persuasion as a tool. Use it wisely.

May I suggest, rather than them giving option, them giving left and right limits, such as: - Max 500 miles radius from our meeting hall. - Must not do dining hall feeding.. and so on. Recommend you have a talk with the CC and prime the pump on what sort of limitations you want given PLC. I would think that something that happened in 03 is worthy of a revisit now.

Brotherhood ... in a day of animosity all amongst society. Cheerfulness... in an era where cynicism has the floor. Service ... when the overwhelming societal ethic is "What's in it for me?" These are the three gut-check values the Order reinforces. They, along with the Scout Oath and Law, and the Oath of Office, are the ethical touchstones to my life. I've been blessed to have active Lodges youth and adult where the Arrow meant something. Not every Lodge is like that. The Order is about the individual reaching back into his units. It's about the individual growing all the more. In my Council, the Lodge helps young men have more leadership opportunities, more service opportunities, and more Thespian opportunities. I know at least one civil engineer and one anthropology student whose careers were definitely influenced either by camp projects or our use of Native American tradition. I can't tell you about how the Lodge is in your local Council. That's a call only you can make.

Scoutmaster wasn't willing to fight for this, or was this something he'd seen and cautioned PLC about? I can see a hard mileage limit, to account for fundraising and costs of fuels. I start seeing "adult run" when I see questions about program though. BTW, you might have PLC contact Herms about Camp Rand. It, like Philmont, is in the Sangre de Cristo range, base elevation about 7200'. It seems to be relatively near Santa Fe. From my own experience this summer at PTC, that's high enough that the days may be hot, but the nights cool off quite nicely. http://www.doubleknot.com/openrosters/view_homepage.asp?orgkey=45

Discretion. This should be a quietly held matter between at most four people: CM, CC, Treasurer and perhaps COR (if Chartered Partner assets will be part of the package). Hand up, not a hand out: I don't think it unreasonable for some service time to the Chartered Partner as part of the package. This is how we handled internal camperships in my Troop. Discretion It bears repeating!

From my POV as a social and economic Republican (well, except Amtrak )... this moves from from ambivalence towards McCain (and taking a hard look at Bob Barr's Libertarian candidacy) into the McCain camp. That's a bit of what is happening here... solidifying the base. From what I see, but I will admit I don't have as much hands-on reading as Lisa, Palin does bring some domestic policy gravitas to McCain. He's tremendous on national security, and he's good on a couple other issues, but McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform? Folks, that's all Beltway, all the time. Frankly, we've had some less ready Presidents... Eisenhower was a huge national security person, but save a couple years as President of Columbia, he was never directly involved in domestic issues. Think about Jimmy Carter a moment. Heck, think about Jack Kennedy or Bill Clinton. THink about our current incumbent. I've had my fill of Harvard Law Beltway experience. She's not the top of the ticket. If they win, and I hope they do, she has a chance to grow. I'm also tired of folks who aren't solidly on the side of the Second Amendment. If you don't think we've not infringed the right to keep and bear arms, look at the Lautenberg Amendment: A Lautenberg accusation is sufficient to send a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine out the door. Note I didn't say conviction. I can live with Sarah Palin. The Republic can and has done with worse, from both sides of the aisle. Warren G Harding and William J Clinton come to mind.

Ed, Have you looked at the ELSP workbook recently? Unit Committee Member signoff is an explicit requirement. http://www.nesa.org/PDF/18-927.pdf Page NINE as BSA numbers it, page 11 of 16 as adobe acrobat reader numbers it. The one way for another committee person to get afoul of me, the SM, and the COR simultaneously was to sign off for the committee without my advance knowledge as CC (such as I was going to be absent and the youth needed a signature).(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

When I was CC, I asked the Scouts to come to me well in advance of building their project book. In plain English, I wanted to listen in as he developed his idea. Things that I looked for were needs for adult support (that means power tools and driving among others). I'd provide some rudimentary training on what 2-deep meant, what no 1/1 contact meant. A previous DAC (not our current guy) had deferred a project because there was 1/1 youth-adult contact at a couple of project points. When the youth said he was ready for the ELSP review at District RT, I'd sign off, wish him Godspeed, and make sure he knew where and when to be there

Kudu, That was the worst attempt at sarcasm on a serious matter I have seen in the last month. The young man is at best possessed of a seriously immature sense of humor. At the worst, he's bad news waiting to happen. The bribe represents a serious question of Trustworthiness. The blackmail represents as serious question of Loyalty and Friendliness. Only gcook can decide if the layer after a supervised SM Conference gets made: A call to the SE. As I said, I'm praying for wisdom and discernment on gcook's part.

The Pack I serve as UC just had a very successful recruitment season: 1) The School District does not allow any boy talks or literature passes through official channels. 2) We were there on Back to School Night. We had Pinewood Derby cars (next year we'll have a mini-track too), the Council-produced "Cubs have FUN" dvd, several Scouters in uniform, and several Cubs in uniform. BOTTOM LINE: BOY MAGNETS!!! 3) Invited kids and families to an ice cream social/info meeting/signup. 4) Took info cards. Followed up at least twice with each prospect family. 5) OBTW, we also made sure we had info on a local GSUSA unit for young girls ... since the service unit professional for them didn't get the unit into the building. 6) I've encouraged CM and CC to develop long-term relationships with the Principal of the school ... offer the Pack up for Service Project opportunities. 7) Finally, this Pack is chartered by a church, so CM, CC, and DLs also went through Sunday School and hit the 8-11 year old boys, plus had an information table. I give all the credit to the CC and the CM of this Pack. 16 boys signed up last Tuesday, with several re-contacts to pursue. ETA: The day you go to that school, every swinging one of your existing Cubs should be in uniform!!! They'll tell the story of fun better than you ever can!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

http://www.the-wheel-clamp.co.uk/

Be prepared. Our Troop trailer had a tongue lock. Our Troop trailer had wheel chock locks (aka "The Boot"). We also coordinated with our Chartered Partner for loss coverage of unit property. Like PS our trailer was titled and licensed to the Chartered Partner. So far, it's not gone wayward in seven years. I'm sad for the unit losing its stuff; I hope the thieves are caught and brought to trial. Even so, I submit it's our duty to the units we serve to Be Prepared.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

If this is a camp run by a Scout Council, it either meets BSA National Camp Standards or it gets closed down. That includes staffing. Last time I checked, my Professionals said all staffers (save those who are contracted from a 3d party, such as Sodexho for foodservice) must be registered in the BSA. That is certainly one of the pre-employment checks in our Council.

FScouter, I don't know the mind of this young man. I'm hundreds of miles away. I'm distressed at the reported actions of his father. gcook gave us a situation, and then (it's a gift) offered us update and feedback. I think what Barry said passed the common sense test. Looking further down the thread, I think what loud snoring bear said (don't do anything else alone anymore) also makes sense. Matthew 18 (the verses where Christ says do all discipline, after the first outreach, under the eyes of witnesses) applies. Paul gives us an insight on his jurisdiction and how he would react professionally. Can this young man continue the trail? Possibly. I certainly see an issue of TRUST both in the bribe and the blackmail. Joke or not, these are not times where this kind of joke is overly funny. I see a question of LOYALTY as well. This deserves a further Scoutmaster conference, but an observed one. Then comes the toughest part. Gcook has to make a gut-check decision: Is the youth simply acting idiotically immature, or does the situation merit a phone call to the SE? gcook, know you're in my prayers.

There is always the option of placing him as a youth member in a Venturing Crew... As far as youth member in Boy Scouting, when EagleSon turned 18, he removed his youth patches from his uniform, went to local tailor, and had knots properly sewn on. That summer he went to Scout Camp with a Troop, albeit as a Venturer, but took FS, YP, NLE, and SM Essentials in his week. It actually helped him later that summer when he was staffing a Cub Scout camp.

If they're sold to raise funds (vice identify participants), I'd say he can wear 'em.

As a note, Theodore Naish (where HOAC runs its Cub programs) uses 1 staff for Boy Scout and Webelos camps (they run consecutively), and 1 staff for the Bear Family Resident camp operation (it runs concurrently from week 2 of Boy Scout Camp through session 10 of Webelos Camp). Boy Scout and Webelos camps run on the same part of the reservation, hence their need to be consecutive. Bear Family Resident Camp runs concurrently on a different physical area of the Reservation.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Heart of America Council 2008 season costs, from the website. All are in-council only. Out of Council adds 10% for Boy Scout camp only: H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation (Boy Scout)(9 days or program, 10 days from departure to return): 255 early bird, 280 standard Theodore Naish Scout Reservation: (Venturing): 100 early bird, 125 standard (6 day program) (Boy Scout): 190 early bird, 210 standard (7 day program) (Webelos): 105 early bird, 120 standard (3 day, 2 night) (Bear Family Resident): 45 early bird, 60 standard (2 day, 1 night)

I endorse what Barry said!!!

Assuming you have a decent Commissioner's Service, asking District Commish to surge UC's to cheerlead, mentor, and guide folks as the unit is in forming and norming stages. If you don't have the above, ask experienced unit serving Scouters for same

In 35+ years of membership, I've not heard of an Arrowman not being permitted to attend a ceremony within his membership level. I agree with shortridge that ceremonies are not secret, but I'd discourage non-Scouter, non-Arrowman members from attending. The Staff Adviser and the Lodge Adviser can provide folks who have a need to know everything, to include access to the books. Do they need the ceremony itself? To me, it's called using the tool of mystique and mystery.

I'd have a long, heart-to-heart, Scoutmaster Conference ... with this young man and his parents. There is no way to accept this as humor these days. A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal. This kid has blown that box wide open. I'd have a long talk with your COR to boot. Is this enough of a threat for you to contact your SE? That has to be your call, from your knowledge of the young man, in your own heart.