Girl Scouts Suing the Boy Scouts

[Treflienne]

36 minutes ago, Saltface said:

@qwazse Do you have more details or a source for his reasoning?

Marguerite de Beaument (who was one of the original Girl Scouts who showed up at the Crystal Palace rally) wrote a biography of Baden-Powell  (The Wolf That Never Sleeps, 1944),  intended to be read by the girl guides, in which she wrote: (p. 45-46)
 

Quote

 

B.-P. was now called the 'Chief Scout', and the 'Chief' we will now call him to the end of this story.  He was, of course, present at this rally and suddenly caught sight of the Girl Scouts.  He went up to them at once, smiled at them and said: "Who are you, and what are you doing here?"  I, as the patrol leader, stepped forward and saluted: "Please, Sir," I said, just a little frightened and shy, "we are the Wolf Patrol of the Girls Scouts, and we want to do Scouting like the boys."   . . .

After that things began to happen.  A little while later I went to see the Chief at his house in London.  He sat in a large armchair and talked of the days when he was soldiering in India.  He told me that he was racking his brain for a name for the Girl Scouts: "The youngsters who are girls and want to do Scouting" was the way he put it.  He told me of the famous regiment of Guides, of which you have already heard.  Then he turned to me and said: "These men were called the Guides, and that is what I am going to call you.  Do you think you can live up to it and stick to their traditions?":

 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Treflienne
typo

[Treflienne]

37 minutes ago, Saltface said:

@qwazse Do you have more details or a source for his reasoning?

Also, from the foreword, written by Robert Baden Powell, in Scouting for Girls, the 1920 Girl Scout handbook.
 

Quote

 

. . . I afterwards took to training boys in that way, but I had not been long at it before the girls came along and offered to do the very thing I had hoped for, they wanted to take up Scouting also.

They did not merely want to be the imitators of the boys; they wanted a line of their own.

So I gave them a smart blue uniform and the name of "Guides" and my sister wrote an outline of the scheme.  The name Guide appealed to the British girls because the pick of our frontier force in India is the Corps of Guides. . . .

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:34 PM, Treflienne said:

@qwazse  I know that.   And as I have said previously,  it would be brand suicide for GSUSA to go with "Guides".  There is very little recognition of the term in the U.S.  Our little Brownies are always surprised to hear that elsewhere in the world girl scouts are called "girl guides".

But the made-up name I used in this post was "Girlscout",  echoing Girlguiding's running together of the two words.

My suggestion had been that the BSA consider using "Girl Guides", but people here had all kinds of reasons why that would be bad.  I'm still not so sure, but it's moot at this point.

[TAHAWK]

For purpose of international Guiding, GSA already is the recognized association for the U.S.  BSA would be infringing and opposed by The World Association.

[Treflienne]

1 hour ago, TAHAWK said:

GSA

Typo there.  You mean GSUSA.    And I think you also mean "The World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts"

[skeptic]

1 hour ago, TAHAWK said:

For purpose of international Guiding, GSA already is the recognized association for the U.S.  BSA would be infringing and opposed by The World Association.

And this has what application to BSA accepting girls?  Unless they were to attempt to be added to the Guiding group, which is not likely, this should have no significance.  What am I missing?

 

[walk in the woods]

Story from CNN on the 2/1 Scouts BSA launch at https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/01/us/boy-scouts-girls-trnd/index.html.  Nothing particularly exciting about the story, but, there was this from the article that I hadn't seen elsewhere:

Quote

The organization later added that a judge last week ruled that the lawsuit is moving forward with all of the claims GSUSA made, after the BSA filed a motion to dismiss two of the claims.

"Beyond our view that the decision was entirely correct, Girl Scouts has no further comment on pending litigation," GSUSA said in a statement.

 

[TAHAWK]

On 1/28/2019 at 2:58 PM, NJCubScouter said:

I think you can rest assured that the BSA's attorneys will bring up that decision in this case.  Whether it has the effect on this case that you think it might have is another issue.  I believe the legal situation is considerably more murky than Tahawk, for example, thinks it is.  There are at least two factual scenarios involved here, one is that the BSA is using the word "Scout" without any qualifier as to "Boy" or "Girl", the second is that the GSUSA was able to find a number of examples of BSA councils using the phrase "Girl Scout" (or "girl Scout" or similar phrases) to recruit for BSA programs.  It sure seems to me like those councils were violating the GSUSA's trademark.  Whether that conduct is attributable to National is another isse.

Are the offending councils parties?

[NJCubScouter]

9 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Are the offending councils parties?

I don’t know.

[hiker67]

On 12/8/2018 at 10:12 PM, hiker67 said:

Quote: “Instead of focusing on past notions of ‘outdoorsmanship,’ ” the organization tries to help girls develop leadership skills in a way that suits them — for example learning to advocate for environmental protection, Girl Scouts Vice President Jennifer Allebach said in an email to The Washington Post.

"Are camps being sold to pay for the pension expense?

Camping is and will always be an essential part of Girl Scouting. The decision to sell or close a camp is made entirely by local councils on the basis of usage, maintenance costs, availability of other camp property, and other factors. Approximately 10 to 15 percent of our members participate in camp experiences as part of Girl Scouting." (emphasis added)

https://www.girlscouts.org/en/faq/faq/national-gs-retirement.html

[TAHAWK]

1 hour ago, hiker67 said:

"Are camps being sold to pay for the pension expense?

Camping is and will always be an essential part of Girl Scouting. ..   Approximately 10 to 15 percent of our members participate in camp experiences as part of Girl Scouting." (emphasis added)

https://www.girlscouts.org/en/faq/faq/national-gs-retirement.html

 

[Eagle94-A1]

12 hours ago, hiker67 said:

"Are camps being sold to pay for the pension expense?

Camping is and will always be an essential part of Girl Scouting. The decision to sell or close a camp is made entirely by local councils on the basis of usage, maintenance costs, availability of other camp property, and other factors. Approximately 10 to 15 percent of our members participate in camp experiences as part of Girl Scouting." (emphasis added)

https://www.girlscouts.org/en/faq/faq/national-gs-retirement.html

Interesting that GSUSA left out the rest of that statistic. Gotta find the interview, but t seem to recall its stated "at least once a year."

 

That tells me a lot of their outdoor program.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Eagle94-A1

[hiker67]

4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Interesting that GSUSA left out the rest of that statistic. Gotta find the interview, but t seem to recall its stated "at least once a year."

That 10-15% probably includes day camp, weekend camping and summer (residential) camp.

When residential camp participation drops below 10%:

"Soots said last fall that fewer than 10 percent of the council’s girl members attend a resident camp."

Girl Scouts circulate petition in effort to save camps

https://www.semissourian.com/story/2579947.html

 

[WisconsinMomma]

Our troop would rent Girl Scout camps out, but now they are not allowed to, and it hurts the GSUSA camps because now they're not getting our money.

There are camps on beautiful pieces of property and I worry that they'll eventually get turned into subdivisions.  Ew.  

[hiker67]

5 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

There are camps on beautiful pieces of property and I worry that they'll eventually get turned into subdivisions.  Ew.  

2014: "In the past five years or so, Girl Scout councils across the country, backed by the parent organization Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA), have put up for sale more than 200 camps in 30 states—more than a third of Girl Scouts properties with acreage are threatened. The regional councils defend the sales by citing the rising costs of maintenance. And, they say, today’s girls aren’t as interested in camping."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-are-girl-scout-camps-being-closed