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Treflienne

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Everything posted by Treflienne

  1. Treflienne

    Girls in the BSA

    I started reading this forum last year, as a parent of a girl who wants to join BSA, with the idea of learning more about the BSA as I prepare to become a volunteer. It has been extremely helpful to read the range of opinions. I have been impressed by the number of people (too many for me to remember all their names) who, even though preferring for Boy Scouts to remain single gender, have been kind and courteous to answer my questions and give good advice as to how to have a good program for the girls. And I have been encouraged by the number of people who are obviously genuinely enthusiastic about girls in the program. I can put up with a few curmudgeons. Actually, I have appreciated hearing from them, also. I have appreciated learning, in this online forum, what some of the sensitive issues are. Better for me to learn that here, rather than to accidentally and unnecessarily annoy some of the old-time scouters in my town.
  2. When a kid joins scouting and formally makes the Scout Oath for the first time, is there any recognition of this as a formal and solemn promise that the scout is henceforth undertaking to obey? I only know how it is done in Girl Scouts. There, there is an "investiture" ceremony. The new scout is recognized and, in front of the whole group, recites the Scout Promise and recieves her Girl Scout pin. Usually this also includes someone shaking the new scout's hand with the Scout handshake and telling her congratulations upon becoming a Girl Scout. (For traditionalists, it also includes pinning the pin on upside down, until the scout has done "three good turns", after which the pin can be turned rightside up.) Sometimes the ceremony is very brief. I've seen new girl scout leaders, who were not scouts as kids, being invested in a 2-minute ceremony at the begining of a service unit meeting (adult leader meeting.) Sometime it is a little more elaborate, and the whole troop will sing, as a four part round, "Whene'r you make a promise, consider well its importance, and when made, engrave it upon your heart." If a whole cohort is being invested together, such as an entire troop of kindergarten Daisy Girl Scouts, then troop may invite the parents to come and watch the event. What do Boy Scouts do? (Less than one month till we have a whole batch of new scouts.)
  3. Treflienne

    What's in a name?

    Does this mean that "Leadership Development" is no longer one of the Methods?
  4. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    I looked at some cross-over ceremonies on the web, and they do seem to include the Oath and Law. Also, since 2015, the cross-overs will already have been using the Scout Oath and Scout Law as cubs, so they will already have subscribed to them as cubs. And the Scout Rank seems like it will take a little longer to earn than Scout did previously (or even than Tenderfoot did back in the 1911 handbook.) So the question really only comes up for new scouts who were never scouts or cubs before. I am looking for best practise for new scouts who were never scouts or cubs before. How to encourage them to think carefully about the Oath and Law, and be aware that they pledging themselves to a way of life, and not just drift into saying the oath thoughtlessly. While such new never-been-cubs scouts have probably been unsusual in recent yeats, we have on the order of a dozen (girls) who look like they will be joining Scouts BSA next month. Decent chance the girls will do combined opening ceremonies (at least part of the time) with a boys troop with which we will be linked. And the boys troop recites the oath and law at the beginning of each meeting. My personal (completely uneducated) opinion would be to have these new scouts think carefully about the oath and law and (in some fashion) swear them in at their first meeting the first week of February. But perhaps that is contrary to how things should be done in BSA. (I am definitely influenced by my GSUSA background, so I have a lot to learn.) Making them wait until they earn the Scout Rank to publically recite the Oath would seem like too long a wait -- and the boys who come up from cubs do not have that wait. Looking for opinions from opinionated people who find tradition meaningful, and who care about the Oath and Law.
  5. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    Was this done very soon after they registered and began attending meetings? Or was this done after they had earned Scout rank?
  6. Treflienne

    What's in a name?

    You loved the berets? We Girl Scouts also had berets in the 1970s and they were awful. Never stayed in place. I think that GSUSA has gotten rid of many things it should not have gotten rid of, but I don't mind the disappearance of the berets at all.
  7. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    So in GSUSA, a generation back at least, when we had an investiture for the new girl scouts we would sometimes also have what we called a "rededication ceremony" for the rest of the girl scouts (perhaps once a year). A log candleholdle with three candles for the three point of the Scout Promise, and another log candleholder with ten candles for the ten points of the Girl Scout Law . . . (But we had no "spirit of scouting" candle.)
  8. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    So I looked up the (UK) Scout Association web site and saw that in the UK the Cub Scout Promise is different from the Scout Promise. (In particular the cub promise refers to a different, briefer, Law). So your new scouts, at their investiture, are making a new promise that they did not make in cubs. How long, typically, from when they start attending the scout meetings until their investituture? And during their time leading up to their investiture, when the rest of the scouts are reciting the Scout Promise at the start of the meeting (which I am assuming they do) then do these new scouts-to-be recite the Scout Promise along with the scouts, or do they wait until their investiture?
  9. Treflienne

    What's in a name?

    That would probably also work fine for any fifth grade girls crossing over from cubs to scouts this year also, and maybe for a few years. Everyone currently knows the old name "Boy Scout" much better than the new name "Scouts BSA", even the new girls.
  10. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    Thanks so much for sharing that video. Apart from the setting (the high ropes course) and from the mention of the queen is the promise, it is very similar to what I am familiar with from GSUSA.
  11. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    I would appreciate that.
  12. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    So it seems like there were a couple of related changes in 2015 that are significant for the idea of an investiture: 1) Cub Scouts started using the same Scout Oath and Scout Law as Boy Scouts 2) "Scout" turned into a rank, rather than a joining badge, ( https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/10/19/scout-currently-joining-badge-become-rank/ ) So back when cubs didn't have the same oath, then in order to get the scout "joining badge" they needed to as well as a few other things which look like they could mostly have been done the first week the boy began attending the troop meetings. After the 2015 changes, most boys were coming into scouts from cubs already familiar with and subscribing to the Scout Oath. The new scout rank requirements are a little more involved, including So it looks like the current scout rank assumes that the boy has been trying for some time to put into practise the Scout Oath and Scout Law, rather than making an initial agreement to being trying to do so. (Which should certainly be true of any boy coming up from cubs.) So the Scout rank looks like a great time to recieve the custom troop neckerchief and woggle, after having demonstrated some committment to Boy Scouting, for boys coming up from cubs. But what about those kids who were never cub scouts. It will likely take most of them a few weeks to achieve scout rank. In the meantime they are attending the scout meeting each week. Do they just drift into saying the Scout Oath along with the other boys. Or is there some way to emphasize that what they are doing is a significant new undertaking for them? Might their be some form of investiture separate from and prior to the attainment of the Scout Rank, to signify that they are commencing to subscribe to the Scout Oath and Scout law?
  13. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    Yes, please.
  14. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    If it is acceptable practise in BSA, I'd like to do something of the sort with the new Scout BSA girls --- to emphasize the significance of their vow. Since scouting is not an activity that one attends, it is the undertaking of a way of life. But I'd like to do it the BSA way, if there is such a thing.
  15. Treflienne

    Investiture Ceremony?

    Apparently also done in Scouts Canada https://scoutdocs.ca/Documents/Scout_Investiture.php
  16. Treflienne

    videos of scouts cooking

    Do you mean this sort? https://scoutmastercg.com/ecozoom-stove-review/ Have any of you used them as patrol stoves?
  17. Treflienne

    videos of scouts cooking

    How many of you guys (your boy scout troops that is) normally cook over a fire rather than over a camping stove these days? As I have been getting acquainted with BSA in my area, I was surprised by how much of the cooking was on a camp stove rather than over a fire. And if you don't normally cook over a camp fire is it because (a) you don't have a good place to build a campfire or (b) building a fire and cooking over it takes too much time and the boys want to do other things or (c) problems with availability of firewood or (d) some other reason?
  18. Treflienne

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    In a good year, our service unit has 2 or three activitites to which all the troops are invitied to attend. In a bad year, fewer. In a good year, our service unit has a meeting of all interested adults (troop leaders mostly, but interested parents also) every month or two. In a bad year, the service unit might meet only twice. It all come down to the energy level and availability of the volunteers -- who are also trying to keep things going in their own troops.
  19. Treflienne

    New Scout Troop

    I'm a little concerned about that. Either 1) that they will scorn cabin camping as not being real camping or that 2) they will decide that cabin camping is close enough to camping and not want more. Besides, I have bad memories (both as a kid and as an adult) of being in a cabin with a whole bunch of Brownies and no one getting any sleep. Divide them up into tents of not more than 4 girls and everyone sleeps better. Or does this problem go away when the kids are older? There might be a certain appeal to this. Do a day outing quite early (before the end of February). Cook lunch over a campfire and hike in the snow. Then the girls might be better ready for tents in late March / early April weather. (Even in late April it can still drop down to freezing at night.)
  20. Treflienne

    Merry Christmas! (I&P Version)

    If we want to nit-pick about language -- are you sure you mean "girl scout troop"? Or do you mean "scout troop for girls"? Either way, I agree with you that
  21. Treflienne

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Girl Scout troops are encouraged (by the council) not to carry money forward from year to year unless it is earmarked for a specific purpose.
  22. Treflienne

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    A good service unit, if you have one, is valuable. The service unit is simply the troop leaders and other registered adult volunteers in a given geographical area (such as a town or school district). If the older girls' troops have experienced energetic troop leaders they can do a lot to help the younger troops and newer leaders. But if the leaders of the older troops are fully busy with their own troops, they might not have time or energy for helping out the younger troops. Occasionally our service unit has organized a service-unit-wide encampment or Thinking Day observance -- but some years it has done neither. The more I learn about BSA it seems to me that the single-grade small girl scout troops are to the service unit a little like dens are to the pack.
  23. Treflienne

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    The GSUSA troop leader is responsible for finding a meeting space for her troop. It should be handicapped-accessible. It should preferably be in some kind of a public building (church, school, business, not a private home). And it should not cost anything to meet there. If you are lucky a sympathetic school or church will let you meet. Other troops end up meeting in the leaders homes (though this is discouraged) which of course serves to limit the troop size.
  24. Treflienne

    New Scout Troop

    I like your plan. I think it looks like a great plan. But . . . I'm concerned about the season of the year. Our new troop will be starting beginning of February. Late February and early March we still ususally have snow on the ground. I think that some of the prospective new scouts have little or no camping experience. I want the first weekend outing to be a positive experience for all. We will not have a lot of scouts to start with. I don't want to lose any after the first camping trip if the camping trip is something they are not yet ready for. ) Anybody have good suggestions for a good type of first weekend or overnight trip for winter for a new or inexperienced troop not yet ready for camping in the snow? Cabin with a wood stove, but cook over a fire outdoors and do day hikes in the snow? Other ideas?
  25. Treflienne

    New Scout Troop

    Winter? What climate? Did you take a bunch of new scouts winter camping within the first month or so of the troop restarting?
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