acco40

Take a hike of 20 continuous miles in one day following a hike plan you have prepared. "It really does depend upon the kid doing the hiking, but remember that they are carrying their own water and ten essentials which can get very heavy about mile 8." -Auquila Aquila - please let me know where you found the above requirement. In an earlier post I used the term "urban hike" - please don't translate this to walking on concrete or asphalt. We have many trails that meander through urban/surburban areas. So, you may be walking on a well established trail but not concrete. Some are converted railways and others more like a bike path of crushed pea gravel or just plain dirt. (This message has been edited by acco40)

First, physically, I think many of the boys can do a 20 mile hike. Mentally, many can''t. Let me explain. For the hiking merit badge, we had a recently crossed over Scout (hiked in August, crossed over in March) plan and finish a 20 mile hike. It was an "urban" trail which passes by restaurants. He carried water but had the opportunity to fill-up every few miles or so. He started at 8:00 AM and completed the hike around 5:30 PM (2.1 mph average). GernBlansten - 55 lb packback? You need some instruction on how to pack! No need to stick two dutch ovens in your pack. On our trek at Double H this summer we average around 40 lb / pack including food and the ridiculously heavy Philmont issued backpacking tents, flys, and cooking equipment. Don''t confuse hiking with backpacking. We backpacked 12 miles this Spring and it was a challenge. I can hike 15 miles with little effort. I take newly crossed over boys on a five mile hike in the Spring. Usually around the half-way point they get tired/bored. However, when they finish, after an hour of complaining, they are up for a game of football or other shenanigans. Pacing - something the boys don''t learn about at least until their mid-teens.

There have been protests from foreign governments because on can use Google Earth and located army bases, missile silos, etc. Technology brings about interesting thoughts to ponder.

Does anyone remember George C. Scott in Patton? After the first significant meeting between the German and American troops (Kasserine Pass) the US GIs suffered heavy casualties and were humiliated. Well, when he was initially assigned to command the troops after the disaster as Kasserine Pass one of the first things he did was institute correct uniforming. Does how one wears the uniform affect how well one can fight? Well, yes and no. I can fight equally well (on ineptly) in a blue or orange shirt. But, a proper uniform does breed esprit de corps and respect. After Patton's changes (albeit not just in uniforming) when the Germans and American next met, in some cases only weeks later, the U.S. forces performed considerably better. The best thing the adults can do is to wear the uniform proudly. As Scoutmaster, I do this regularly. To some extent, the Assistant Scoutmasters do as well. On the committee side, I can only get the Committee Chair (an Eagle Scout) and the Advancement Chair (on occasion) to wear the uniform. The rest of the committee thinks it is a big joke when I request that they wear the uniform. The boys see this and make their own judgment calls on the uniform. My own boys, before many troop meetings, ask me do I have to wear all of my uniform?. I always give them the same response. You don't have to do anything. You don't even have to go to the meeting but I expect that when one attends a Scouting function, one wear the appropriate Scouting uniform. I've also said that there are many ways to reach the aims of Scouting. However, if one does not use the 8 methods, it isn't Scouting. As registered leaders, we've promised not to just try and reach the aims of Scouting but to do so by using the methods of Scouting. The uniform is one of those methods. Very simple, no? No more, no less important than any of the other methods. Besides, as one who is "style challenged" having a uniform to wear makes my day easier. :-) (This message has been edited by acco40)

Maybe it's just me but public prayer outside of a religious institution makes me uncomfortable. As Scoutmaster, I worked arranging the details to three Eagle Courts of Honor this year so far. None were held inside a church, temple, mosque, etc. At each one, the families of the Eagle Scout asked me to prepare an invocation and benediction (they wanted me to write it) but wanted the Priest/Minister of the church they attended to verbalize the invocation and benediction. At each ECOH, they did not "follow script" and instead gave their own invocation and benediction. That, in and of itself, did not bother me. Afterall, these were "professional" religious men and had much more experience than I at these things. However, each prayed to Jesus Christ as opposed to God. That upset me. That made it non-denominational. I firmly believe that Scouting should be non-denominational in its delivery and execution. I know not all agree. Our troop is sponsored by an Episcopal Church and to my knowledge no troop members are Episcopalians. Most, but not all of our members are Christians. I'm just much more comfortable having non-denominational prayer at Scouting events and "non-denominational" statements at public schools along the line of "I hope nobody gets hurt." Legality aside, I think it is rude to make others uncomfortable in a public setting and I think organized prayer by a school, teacher, etc. has the potential to do that.(This message has been edited by acco40)

scoutldr - My son''s Eagle Certificate is signed by the President of the United States of America. I''m extremely proud of that. The President happened to be George W. Bush - a politician I''m not very fond of but I have high respect for the office. Now, if Mr. Richardson does not like the current membership criteria of the BSA he has every right to decline any honorary titles. Atheist groups lobbied Bill Clinton to step down as honorary head of the BSA. What peaks my interest is what would the BSA do if Barney Frank were elected President of the USA? :-)

Dues are like taxes, one can't comment on the amount without knowing what they are used for. Some municipalities have high tax rates but provide "free" garbage collection, road plowing, police protection, fire service, etc. Others have low taxes and nickel and dime the citizens for every service. So, without knowing what dues are used for, $100 could be highway robbery or a great bargain. In our troop we have quarterly dues of $25. That pays for all advancement costs (MBs, rank patches, equipment, trailer costs, trailer storage costs, etc.). We charge for outings to just meet the expense from that outing (no added charges for equipment depreciation for example). We also give the opportunity to all to participate in the popcorn fundraiser. What we have as mandatory is a set amount, currently $40 per year, to contribute to the troop. The Scouts may do this by selling popcorn or simply donate the money to the troop. Some would much rather open their wallet than spend the effort selling corn. To each his own. One of the goal of Scouts is to teach the boys fiscal responsibility. Having them participate by earning or raising the money themselves is a good way to do that.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Both of my sons participated as Den Chiefs soon after they became Boy Scouts. Let me share some of my observations about Den Chiefs. 1) I don''t highly recommend that a Scout become a Den Chief for his younger brothers den, especially if their age difference is two years or less. 2) Scoutmasters want to use the den chief position to train their inexperienced Scouts the basics of leadership. Den Leaders want troops to provide their best seasoned youth leaders. 3) Scoutmasters and Cubmasters should assign den chiefs, not parents or den leaders. 4) I found that for very young Boy Scouts, being a den chief to Webelos Scouts, sometimes only one year younger or less, can be a rewarding experience. 5) As a Scoutmaster, I assigned a pair of young Boy Scouts to a den as den chiefs. That way, they had back-up when busy (Troop meetings, Pack meetings, den meetings, patrol meetings, troop outings, etc. can be very taxing). Also, if you can provide a pair of den chiefs when both attend they have a peer to interact with. 6) As Scoutmaster, make sure the Den Leader and Cub master understand the den chief''s role. I''ve had bad experiences with a Den Leader who just treated the den chief as another cub scout and let him occasionally talk to the boys about what Boy Scouts is like.

I''ve got a novel idea - let the boys decide what they want to do! If the boys want to continue hiking at a brisk pace they will need to determine how best to do this. This summer we had a trek at Double H. I had the dubious honor of being the oldest and shortest participant. The youngest boy, almost 15, is almost six feet tall. Well, I could match the boys stride for stride but after about ten minutes or so I found that I was trailing them by about 50 ft or so. I also happened to notice that that the "order" of the hikers was almost always by height (more accurately, inseam or leg length). The crew had to decide how to handle this. Granted this wasn''t really a big problem. We didn''t have "shufflers" or laggards, we just had different strides. From what Eagle15 posted, I don''t think that is the only problem with his group. In our troop, I have some very big kids, for their age, who while only 11 or 12 years old are in the 5''9" to 6'' range. They don''t walk, they lumber along. It is like they have not quite adapted to their new "size" just yet. Many of the first year Scouts (10 & 11 year olds) are really not physically mature enough, especially with a predominently sedentary lifestyle, to hike very far yet alone backpack. I remember taking my son and his friend on the 2nd Class required 5 mile hike just months after they crossed over intothe troop. Well, just like puppy dogs, they darted about on the trail full of energy. At about the three mile mark, they claimed exhaustion and wanted to turn back. Well, I said, it is three miles that way or two mile forward. So we trudged along and of course once finished with the five miles their energy miraculouly came back. So the Scout in Eagle15''s post may shuffle along due to physical changes, fatigue, boredom, or who knows what (or in all likelyhood, a combination of all three) but it is best to let the boys try and handle this situation (with guidance). They may surprise us.

We have our responsibilities as Scout leaders, as parents, as citizens and simply as human beings. As a Scoutmaster, I would allow parents to attend outdoor activities and troop meetings regardless of the "rap sheet." My "litmus test" would be how they conducted themselves in the presence of the youth and other adults. My Scout duties require me to report any accusations of child abuse to the SE. As a parent, I'd have to make a judgment call on if I thought the parents had the potential to cause harm to any of the other youth, my own children included. As a citizen, I'd have to decide if I should report suspected illegal activity or not. Now, I'm a "child" of the 60's. I went to high school in the early 70s, the time that most surveys show had the highest usage of such drugs as marijuana. For example, some studies indicated that about 65% of youth in the 16-18 year age group had tried marijuana. That doesn't make it right or okay and it was still illegal. But from a practical perspective, if I reported to the police everyone that I knew who smoked the "evil weed" the police would have put me on a "don't call" list! From my own personal perspective, I don't condone drug use and I think it is a lousy example to the kids but feel that in reality from a purely physiological perspective - one beer vs. one joint isn't much difference. So I would look more at the behavior of the adult(s) in question during the meetings/outings and base my judgment on that. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Differences in the male and female brain? A man starts to get terrible headaches that won't go away. His wife finally convinces him to go to the doctor. She accompanies him to the hospital for a bunch of tests - blood chemistry, MRI, etc. A few weeks go by and his doctor suggests they both come to his office to meet with him and they comply. Well, says the doctor, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that you have inoperable brain cancer. Shaken the man looks glumly at the floor as his wife holds his hand. After a full minute his wife asks, what is the good news? Well, the good news is that we now have advanced so far with medical science that we are now in a position to do a brain transplant and your husband is an excellent candidate! Elated, the couple embraces. However, the husband, concerned about his family's finances asks what the cost of the transplant will be. Well, explains the doctor, we have two choices. If you want a male brain, the cost is $150,000. However, if you want a female brain the cost is only $12,000. The husband lets out a laugh and nudges his wife. Puzzled, the wife asks the doctor, how come the male brain costs so much more? Well, explains the doctor, that's because it has never been used before. :-)(This message has been edited by acco40)

In our troop, we have a "troop meal plan" that all patrols have to follow: Meals need to be cooked. Cooking involves the mixing of two or more ingredients (doesn't include water) and the application of heat. We have to dust this off every few month or so when the kids do nothing but bagels, milk and cereal, sandwiches, i.e. for all meals. Each patrol leader should have a general idea of the advancement status of all his patrol members and thus voice his opinion on cooking and other such items at the PLC. So if many need the "cooking requirements" he should be pushing the idea that they get the chance. If the troop wants to ensure a balanced menu - review the menus. Don't dictate ingredients. Also, in our troop, I decided that the adults eat as a patrol to remove the pressure on the Scouts to cook "adult" food. We have different palates and when the adults ate the youth prepared food I had too much of a problem getting the adults to "back-off" and let the kids prepare the meals.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Does your adult patrol have a yell? Do they do skits? Are they even a patrol? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

What is the legal definition of male or female? Does it just involve reproductive organs? Does it just involve chromosome patterns? From my definition, the vast majority of "transgender" surgeries occurs within days of birth and parents have to make a determination of what sex they want their newborn to take. This makes me squirm, but it is much easier to "lop off" than to "add on" so to speak. On a similar note, how does one define racial identity? On one hand, some say their is no real genetic difference between races. Yet, when my children apply to college, in my state, they use affirmative action, what prevents them from stating that they are African American, hispanic or whatever? What is the legal definition of these term? John Kerry''s wife, an African American in my book, was mocked for labeling herself as such.

Teens have brains? That is a myth! Okay, I''m going to start trouble here but here goes ... I found in my experience, those that wish to home school their children many times fall in to the "I need to protect my children from the outside world" camp. Aquila - you had your son moved out of his patrol? That is not Scouting. That is your prerogative, but that is not the Scouting program. Your son should make that decision, not you. My boys and my daughter have picked up things from the media, their peers, myself and their mother. Is it all good? No, but they need to learn to deal with it. My job is to provide a safe environment as much as I can - just like Scouts. As Scoutmaster, I let them fail (a learning experience) as long as it does not jeopardize health and safety. Yes, boys and girls learn differently and may be distracted by each other in a learning environment. But guess what, we live in a co-ed world and they need to learn how to handle that. My children need to learn how to handle bullies. They need to learn how to handle temptation, peer pressure and a myriad of other phenomenon. I had a parent of twin Scouts in our troop who always sheltered her sons. We had a meeting where we did "indoor" rock climbing. Her boys, both about 16, she didn''t want them to try because they might fail and she didn''t want them to experience failure in front of the troop. I didn''t force the issue but as a parent I know that I would much rather have my kids experience failure at a young age and learn how to deal with it than experience it for the first time away from home at college or at their place of employment. I''ve worked with twenty-somethings who don''t have the maturity to handle failure. It is sad. When my mother grew up (1930s) females were girls and treated as such and then poof - they became women. You could tell in their dress, demeanor, associations, etc. which side of the fence they were on. There was no real transition period. One went from a little girl and then they were a young lady and expected to act as such. Now, we seem to baby our kids and they get a l o n g transition period from boys/girls to men/women that lasts from about 13 years of age to nearly 25 or so! (Of course, one of the benefits of being male is we never have to really grow up! :-)

Thanks. I see it has no affiliation with the BSA.

Two deep adult leadership is not required for all trips and outings. You''ve got to love the BSA. Yes, the quote by Aquila is accurate but because the BSA is not in the specification business (they would never pass muster in the commercial world) the next sentence in the G2SS is: "There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required." Merit badge meetings are not troop outings. Therefore, no two-deep adult leadership is required. Is it desired? Different question and the answer depends on the adult(s), youth, activity, location and many other variables. What is true as John-in-KC stated is no one on one contact with youth (unless you are their guardian). As for a trip report, you may or may not include the "travel" as part of the event. I don''t consider the travel to and from our homes and the CO part of the troop meeting. The transportation to troop meetings is a parental responsibility not the troops. Sometimes (rarely) that is true for our monthly outings. Usually, for merit badge sessions, transportation is the responsibility of the parents/Scouts - not the counselor so no tour permit is required.

allscoutingallthetime - I''m confused by your post. There is a Historic Trails Award that one may purchase from the BSA. Also, many Historic Trails have their own awards that one may purchase. For example, our unit just returned from Gettysburg and many will receive the Gettysburg Trail medal and patches that we purchased from the York-Adams Council. What exactly do you mean by Nations Trails Heritage Awards? P.S. emb021 - it says right on the Historic Trails Award application that, "Embroidered and leather awards are not worn on uniforms but may be attached to tents, packs, blankets."(This message has been edited by acco40)

Sweaters for your parrot. Oops, no that''s Polly-wools. :-)

As Scoutmaster, in a perfect world I would communicate to the SPL who would then communicate to the PLs and on to the Scouts in their respective patrols. The method - email, personal contact, phone, written hand-out - really doesn't matter. The parents should then get the information from their son (the Scout). In reality, the parents are usually against the above scenario because they don''t "trust" their son and demand a direct communication channel to them. When that happens, the Scout, knowing that their parent will be getting the information through back channels, knows that he really isn't being relied upon i.e. very little consequences for failure. In our troop, we have a group web site that I encourage both parents and Scouts to become members. Many of our communication is via the web which has an email/message utility but I have found that the boys get lazy and many of the young ones don't rely on that media just yet (good for them!!). So, I stress that the youth should rely on personal phone calls (SPL to PLs, PLs and APL split the patrol calls so no Scout needs to make more than 4 or 5 calls). I ask that parents get out of the mode of informing their son/Scout of the information but instead transition to asking their son if they have the information even if in fact the parent has (stealthily) gotten the info beforehand.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Memorabilia is for adults. We made arrows (colored bands for rank, arrow points and other awards - each color signifying something different) and attached to the arrow was a laminated card with a synopsis of all of their awards as well as some beads and feathers. The next year we did the same and also included a nice display board for the arrow. His mother also made a shadow box containing his rank patches, Webelos colors, den/pack numerals, council strip, World Crest, Conservation Award, Religious knot, etc. We gave our Scouts a Silva Compass and The Boy Scout Handbook. The most prized "gift" was the Troop neckerchief they received and the red shoulder loops. Now, many years later their opinion changes but you have to determine if you want something they would like that day the best or later on when they are 21, 30, a father, etc.

We (adults) could start by always making sure we wear our uniform completely, correctly and always in all of our Scouting opportunities - in public or not.

A 15 - 20 lb rock?!! I agree with the statements: "... the young man's remorsefulness and military service don't absolve him from throwing the rock. I appreciate that he did the right thing, but I think he should be held accountable for his actions nonetheless." I'm not a lawyer and don't pretend to know what "criminal intent" involves. No I don't think he attempted to hurt anyone but just like folks who make campfires and burn down thousands of acres of forestland - they didn't mean to do that too.

I found this report enlightening: Back in the 1960s, long before a U.S. senator got busted for lewd behavior in an airport bathroom, it was called "the tearoom trade." But social researchers knew almost nothing about it. So a young graduate student at Washington University in St. Louis started digging. He spent months hanging out in the public restrooms of St. Louis' Forest Park. He wanted to observe the tearoom trade in action: men who met for brief, anonymous homosexual trysts in public. He wanted to discover what compelled them. Laud Humphreys' research was pioneering. It shattered stereotypes. It also cost him his job. Humphreys discovered the majority of men visiting "tearooms" were married and generally upstanding citizens. Many did not think of themselves as gay or bisexual. In his groundbreaking 1970 Ph.D dissertation, "Tearoom Trade: Impersonal Sex in Personal Places," Humphreys detailed the trade's constant rituals: shoe-tapping and reaching under the stalls as a covert way to seek out willing partners. "This is exactly what you find in the case of (U.S. Sen.) Larry Craig," said John Galliher, sociology professor at the University of Missouri-Columbia and co-author of a Humphreys biography. The parallels between Humphreys' research and the accusations against Craig, the Republican senator from Idaho, are striking. The undercover cop described how the senator tapped his foot in a stall at the Minneapolis airport in June and reached under the divider as an invitation for "lewd conduct." Even the senator's very public "I am not gay" protest earlier this week matches the theme of men whose actions do not match their public identities. It was as if the Craig case had been plucked from Humphreys' pages, said Wayne Brekhus, another Missouri sociology professor and biography co-author. "Even this dance of nonverbal anonymity, it seems to have been preserved for 35-plus years." Humphreys, a former Episcopalian priest from Oklahoma, began his research to learn what motivates men to seek quick, impersonal sexual gratification in open areas. He stationed himself at different Forest Park washrooms the same small, stone buildings scattered through the park to this day. There was no shortage of research material: He wrote of witnessing 20 sex acts in just one hour while he waited out a thunderstorm at one restroom. Humphreys noted how the men would use silent signals call and response foot-tapping and finger-pointing to seek out willing partners. Even in the 1960s, police were wise to the game. "When a homosexual takes a seat in the adjacent commode and starts tapping his foot," Humphreys wrote, "the (police) decoy will tap back." That is what allegedly happened in Craig's situation. "At 12:18 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct," the airport police sergeant wrote in his report. "Craig tapped his toes several times and moved his foot closer to my foot. I moved my foot up and down slowly." Craig motioned with his hand under the divider, according to the officer, who then held his police ID by the floor for the senator to see. The senator claimed his intentions were misconstrued: He said he has a "wide stance" during bathroom trips and that he was attempting to pick up a piece of paper. But the senator pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of disorderly conduct. When the case became public this week, he claimed he was not guilty. Humphreys, who died in 1988, would have been transfixed by the senator's case, his biographers say. Humphreys conducted in-depth interviews with 100 men. Half of those he interviewed in the bathrooms. The other half he interviewed using clever and controversial methods. He would write down the men's license plate numbers and track them down a year later. He donned a disguise and talked to the men under the pretense of a social health survey. The men presumably never learned they were part of Humphreys' study. Humphreys found that 54 percent of the men were married and living with their wives. He found 38 percent considered themselves neither bisexual nor homosexual. The men wanted a sexual release that was quick and would not endanger their standing with their family or society. Just 14 percent of the men identified themselves as living-in-the-open homosexuals. "Most of the people who do these things are actually heterosexual," said Joel Jackson, youth advocacy coordinator for Project Ark, a St. Louis-based AIDS outreach group. So the tearooms a slang term of unknown origin were populated not by gay men, but by supposedly straight men. The idea that a man could identify as a heterosexual while having homosexual sex was shocking. Yet it fit a larger sociological research interest in the diverging roles of a person's identity and actions. Humphreys coined the term "breastplate of righteousness" to describe men who used the cloak of social and political conservatism to conceal their deviant behavior. So while some people scoffed when Craig, a socially conservative Republican, claimed at a press conference that he was not gay, some sociologists believed him. "I think Senator Craig is a hypocrite," Galliher said, "but I don't see him as a gay man." The senator's case also brought attention to the little-known tearoom trade. Today, websites share ratings and comments on different public places for homosexual sex. There are hundreds listed in the St. Louis area, from restrooms along the highway to big-box stores in Kirkwood to shopping malls in Chesterfield and Frontenac. But the bathrooms in Forest Park have fallen largely dormant, according to these websites and police. "Forest Park for a while was a huge problem," said city police spokesman Richard Wilkes. "It took awhile for it to be cleaned up." And because of the covert nature of the signals used to gauge sexual interest, many people might not even know what is going on. "If you're not looking for it, you might not notice it," Brekhus said. When Humphreys published his findings, the Washington University chancellor was outraged he felt Humphreys had committed a felony by witnessing a felony and not reporting it. The school threatened to withhold Humphreys' doctorate. He was forced to leave. He taught briefly at Southern Illinois University Carbondale. He finished his career at Pitzer College in California. At the time of the tearoom study, Humphreys had a wife and two children. Many people wondered why he was attracted to his area of study. Years later he provided an answer. He revealed that he, too, had been living a lie. He was gay. Todd Frankel St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Agree with eagle90. I've held Tiger/Den/Webelos leader, Assistant Scoutmaster, Scoutmaster, Unit Commissioner, Trainer, Troop Committee, Pack Committee and District Committee positions. My most fun was working unofficially with a Girl Scout troop (no jokes please). For myself, I like working with the boys in the 10 - 13 age bracket best so being an Assistant Scoutmaster assigned to a patrol is great but only if one has a good Scoutmaster and Committee Chair that take care of the other "business" properly. One position I have not held, Cubmaster, I've been told is the best position in Scouting from the work/reward perspective.