acco40

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I've never seen a member of the US armed sevices with their badge of rank in the wrong location. I've never seen them wear their BDU or dress top with blue jeans.

Okay, I'll split some hairs. Bob White - I agree that Scouts may wear their uniform (and are encouraged to) when selling TrailsEnd Popcorn but I don't believe that the popcorn is strictly considered to be a Scout Product. Other organizations use it for fundraising too. The fundraising is officially sanctioned by the BSA and therefore no unit money raising application needs to be filed but I don't think the product is considered to be an official BSA product. I have a bad memory from when my oldest son was selling popcorn as a new Boy Scout (he was 11). My son was in uniform (so was I) and politely asked a gentleman if he would like to purchase some to help support scouting in his area. The man questioned my son as to how could he guarantee that the money would go to Scouting and not to him personally. My son, only 11 remember, was somewhat confused by this question but did tell the man that some of the money went to his troop and some went to the local council. The man then stated that he would buy some if my son could point out any BSA registered trademark or copyright on the product (knowing full well their wasn't any). My son, spent a few minutes looking at every box and tin looking for a fleur-de-lis, emblem, etc. and couldn't find any. The man cruelly chuckled and walked away.

I'm ashamed that I do not have uniform firmness. I'm rather firm in my arms and legs but sadly, around the middle not so much. I don't have unifirm neatness.

Why do we cross over boys in March? Because the BSA doesn't allow us to crossover girls Seriously, the summer camp preparedness issue comes to mind. Summer camp is really the place where many of the boys bond. If a Scout joined in September, I feel that he may not bond as early. The pack I was affiliated with had Webelos cross over in February. Other Packs had March and April dates. I talked to the Pack that had an April date and their boys were really at a disadvantage. They would join our troop and the first outing some would go on would be in May or Summer camp. Meanwhile, all the other Scouts had more experience - even the other first year Scouts. They now cross over in late February. Ideally, from a selfish Scoutmaster perspective, I'd like to see the boys from all Packs cross over in the same week. That way it would be easier to formulate a plan for the incoming Scouts as opposed to have them trickle in one by one over a two to three month period.(This message has been edited by acco40)

If the constraint is 90 minutes, I'd rather keep the 10 minute reflection and lose 10 minutes of the troop meeting. If there is no constraint of 90 minutes, have a 90 minute troop meeting in addition to a 10 minute reflection. In our troop, I try to have a pre and post type "reflection" (yes I know, reflection is a bad choice of words for a pre-meeting). The problem I have as a SM is that as soon as the meeting is closed, I get pulled and when I tell them I have to meet with the PLC I get these incredulous looks because as everyone knows their time is alway more valuable than anyone else's.

Duplicate post.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Terms like "clean", "morally straight" are nice terms to use but mean different things to different people. What if the national council interpreted the Scout Law such that if anyone ate pork, an unclean animal in the eyes of many individuals based on their religious beliefs, that a Scout was not clean, didn't live up to the Scout Oath, and therefore would not be allowed membership in a private organization such as the BSA (of course the BSA would not go on a witch hunt to try and find those that ate pork but if someone actually flaunted the fact and ate bacon if full public view, well ...)? Now take the term morally straight. I think that Scouts should try and live their lives in a morally straight manner in accordance to their environment (parents, religious affiliation, etc.). What I don't agree with is the interpretation that morally straight has any related meeting with the sexual vernacular term of sexually straight (i.e. not gay). Now, for the uniform ... The uniform "requirements" and I put them in italics because I know that is a misnomer considering the fact that uniforms are not required, are not as ambiguous. For the Boy Scouts it says not to wear the OA sash on one's belt. So, no real iterpretation - it is wrong (or incorrect if one likes that term better) to do wear it in that fashion. It is incorrect to state that in Cub Scouts, uniform pants are not needed. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

For those who think gateways are either appropriate or not appropriate, I suggest you talk to one of your 1st Class scouts about 1st Class requirement 7a.

If you want to deliver the Cub Scout and Boy Scout program of the BSA you should keep a few things in mind. 1) Cubs have defined uniforms. For their activity uniform, you may have custom shirts. Also, it is understood that a uniform (any uniform) is not always appropriate for all activities (i.e. swimming). 2) Boy Scouts have defined uniform requirements. On option troops have is to define their hat and neckerchief (or none). However, once the unit makes a decision, it should be uniform. 3) If you want to make up your own rules about uniforming, go ahead. Just don't advertise your program as the BSA program.

I'm still contemplating morally straight.

Why not camp at Gettysburg? Do a search in this forum on Gettysburg and you will find wealth of information on the topic.

There is formal training and informal training. One may learn via both methods and conversely, not learn much in either. I'm fully trained for my position(s), have taken extensive supplemental training and have even staffed many courses. I still keep learning. Some of the courses have been "duds." Some excellent. But you know what, none have had a negative effect. I think getting trained shows the Scouts, parents and other Scouters that we care enough about the program that we sacrifice a little of our time to take the training. The BSA does have a Scouting program that they would like to be administered in a certain way. Yes, there is great flexibility on how it may be administered but as leaders in the program, we've pledge to deliver the BSA program. Therefore, it would be beneficial to know what that program is. I've got a radical concept! Don't make training mandatory; make knowledge of the program mandatory for Scouters. I've had some trained adults who just don't get it as we say. I normally don't like merit badge classes as a troop meeting but one of the boys wanted to organize and attend a fingerprinting merit badge class, taught by a local policeman, for one of our troop meetings. As Scoutmaster, I approved his plan. Well, only two Scouts asked for a "blue card" from me before the class started. Only about two more asked for a card from me during the class. To save time, a mother wanted to pre-fill out all of the blue cards during the meeting, have me sign them all and then distribute them to the Scouts. My answer was no. Why on Earth would I want to wait for the boys to fill them out? Wouldn't it be much more efficient if she did that? Like I said, some just don't get it.

Guys, take it outside. Nobody needs to be lectured on what is or what is not courteous, kind, cheerful, etc. If you find certain forum members not to your liking, I suggest you ignore them.

OGE & Packsaddle - do you know how to tell a rich Georgian? Count how many cars he has up on blocks! BW is in all probably correct. We should concentrate our efforts to improving our own units (oops - the units to which we belong ) and quit pontificating on these forums. But oh, it is so much fun!

Timeless values indeed! Name one person who has a strongly held value who does not think it is timeless! By using such marketing slogans, the BSA doesn't ruffle too many feathers. Is it natural to think that the "olden days" were better? Lay a "value" on the table and let's debate it. No need to label it conservative, red, liberal, blue, etc. Was the concept of a den mother conservative? Red? Allowing men to be den leaders does in the recent pass make that value not timeless? Let's refrain from the labeling. I teach my son's that LNT is great for Double H but not necessarily the best policy for a Scout camp. One can be very patriotic without becoming xenophobic. Pappy - don't you think it is egotistical to think of mankind as not part of nature? Yes, for whatever reasons (the divine hand of God, opposable thumbs, etc.) we have evolved (or were created) with much higher intellect that most of the animal kingdom. P.S. What is ladder day scouting? Some sort of climbing emphasis?

Welcome - say high to Bruce for me.

Some 12 year olds can handle NYLT, some 16 year old can't. Know the boy in question and make your own determination (that is why Scoutmaster approval is often requested for most of these types of special events).

As others have said, the Scoutmaster is in charge of the advancement program in the troop. However, the Scoutmaster and their assistants do NOT sit on Boards of Review. One of the purposes of a Board of Review is to review the advancement program (not the Scout) and as Advancement Chair you have the credentials to sit and even chair a BOR. If you feel that the Scout should not pass a BOR, due to actions of the Scout himself or the Scoutmaster, you do not have to have the Scout pass the review. You will need to give the Scout specific instructions for what to do to pass the review but you should also provide feedback to the Scoutmaster, Committee Chair and Charter Organizational Representative (and possibly the UC, district advancement chair, IH, etc.) on your perceptions of the troop's (i.e. Scoutmaster's) advancement program.

I'm all for stability and for letting the boys make decisions. What bothers me is that the two are often in conflict. We hold elections every six months based on what the Scouts wanted to do about seven years ago. Now, that is fixed in my mind. Rangersteve (any relation to Scuba Steve?), IMO and in the BSAs, the ASPL is not elected but appointed by the SPL. The ASPL and SPL need to work closely together. Think of it as a President and Vice President. What would you think of President Hillary having to work with Vice President McCain? That would not be a pretty picture! I also agree that elections should be held in close proximity to the term in office, i.e. not six months in advance. I also think that it teaches the Scouts a valuable lesson in voting if they happen to vote in a "turkey" then they will need to learn to live with it. If they felt they could effectively change leadership any time they wanted I could foresee lots of pandering and scheming. I think that is a very bad idea.

We all have a variable cornucopia a of bacteria living in our gut. Some are very efficient at breaking down foodstuffs into energy. Others are not. Some of these we ick up very early - like when we pass through the birth canal (Yeech!). Studies have found profound differences between the bacteria in those who were born vaginally vs. c-section. Those individuals with inefficient bacteria means that they can eat vastly more quantities of food (intake more calories) and since the food is broken down much differently, not gain weight compared to another individual eating the same foods with the same level of activity/exercise. However, IMO, a basic level of fitness is required by Scouters in direct contact with the boys so that they can do basic outdoor activities (hikes, climbs, swimming, biking, etc.). Heck, I'm only 5'6" and top the scales now at 210 lb. It was a struggle to get to 199 lb so I could trek at Double H this past summer. But I did, pulled my own weight and enjoyed myself. It was a struggle sometimes to keep up but hey, nobody's fault but mine. We do owe it to the Scouts to keep of modicum of fitness.

If your son's biggest beef is a lack of camping activities - read The Scoutmaster Handbook and have your son read the Patrol Leader's Guide on the topic of patrol outings. Bottom line, no Scoutmaster required! Although, the patrol does need his approval, he is not obligated to attend (nor any other adult for that matter).

Bob White has the policy down correctly (although I as a parent, do have direct control over at least one registered leader in the troop - me. My wife, anoather parent, has direct control over two registered leaders - me again and herself.) How does your son feel? To me, you have to weigh your son's desires with your own. Coup d'etats rarely accomplish much in Scouting. A non-accusatorial plan by a sub-committee of committe members that map out program changes (crawl first before you walk and then run) could be presented in a non-threatening manner to the SM and existing CC. If all else fails, i.e. you feel you have no capability to change things from within, I suggest you step down as a leader and let you son (with no bias from you) decide his plan of action.

First, what is the atheist problem? Second, unbelievers - how about nonbelievers. Gold Winger - why not admit - admit to what? Your church? To the BSA? I'm sorry but I don't follow your post.

My college life was spent at the University of Missouri (Go Tigers!). Columbia, MO was one of the first (if not the first) to have a mandatory deposit on cans. It was somewhat difficult to implement because it was for a city, not the state. Anyway, not here to debate that policy but to give some background on the thinking at the time (mid 70s). Well, I happened to take a junior/senior level course from the history department that I can't remember the name of but taught about John Muir, conservationisn, etc. I was the only engineer in the class and made darn sure nobody knew my major! What surprised me about the views of the vast majority (I guess it was their Christian upbringing) that views mankind as separate from nature. In my view, we are just like the animals except for a much greater capability to foul our nest than most species. Progress does have a price. Some are willing to pay it, others are not. Some solutions are easily done (don't buy bottled water folks) some much more complex - nuclear power. My only dismay is that much of the science and technology behind such issues is obfuscated by political posturing. Oh, what great leaders we have.