acco40

CalicoPenn - I think you got it slightly wrong. It should not depend on if the parent feels it was inappropriate or not but if the Scout feels it was inappropriate. I visited my daughter's kindergarten class once. Well she wanted to show me off so to speak so she introduced me to some of her classmates. Well one little girl, whom I had never met immediately ran up to me gave me a big hug. The teacher, beign wise and experienced, said since I was there why don't I read a story to the class. Well, not knowing what to say, I agreed, sat down on the carpet (the reading spot) and before I knew it, another girl jumped in my lap. Truthfully, I was somewhat uncomfortable (all that Scout training I guess) but didn't make a big deal out of it. So, was it inappropriate? Well, my take is no, not on my part. It did not make any of the children uncomfortable. I married into an Italian family where hugs by totally strangers is considered normal. C'est la vie.

Think of taxes. Some (very few) are like social security (FICA). After you reach a certain limit you stop being taxed. Most, the more you earn/make, the more you pay. Fundraising can work either way. What our troop does is the following. We have one pre-planned fundraiser each year - popcorn sales. We have some, like you say, who are cash rich and time poor. Other just the opposite. We state that all Scouts should contribute a set amount - either by sales or by opening their wallets. All money raised above that floor goes into their Scout account. This fixes the non-100% participation problem. Other fundraisers we make purely voluntary - such as a bottle drive to raise money for troop equipment. I let the boys decide how they want to parse the funds. Most do it 50/50 to scout accounts and to the troop. The key is to make the percentages public before the event. Sometimes they don't do percentages. Last spring we had a fundraiser where the first $500 dollars went to the troop and anything over went 100% to the Scouts who participated. There is no right or wrong. The key is to make it palatable to all.

I think with talk radio and the pundits on the TV news that the general population is easily confused by such labels as Democrat, Republican, conservative, liberal, etc. Ponder these thoughts. Right to Life/Anti-abortion is considered a "conservative" stance. Yet, a conservative (root word "conserve") stance by definition would be to "stay the course." Yet, current laws allow abortion in many instances. Also, if abortion was made illegal, it would be government intervention (i.e. "more" government) and therefore not the traditional conservative reasoning. Liberalism is defined in economics as emphasizing individual freedom from restraintand is usually based on free competition, the self-regulationg market and the gold standard (a traditional conservative viewpoint?). So, using such labels a conservative, liberal, etc. are mostly attempts to demonize a political viewpoint. Instead of a red/blue BSA I think we, as Scouters, should re-emphasize Scoutings purpose - character development, citizenship and fitness. It comes in all shapes, sizes and colors.

Believe it or not, I still see parents that have a hard time letting go of their 13, 14 and even 15 year old Scouts! You don't need to sell the parents if the youth are sold. The term expensive is relative. Transportation, all meals and lodging paid for and the price is still under $1500 for one full week - that's a bargain in my book. Now, if you are from Utah or California, the travel costs can be comparatively high compared to some place like Georgia but ...

I've got a novel idea - ask him what he wants to do! You've said he wants to stay active. That's great. My son, and Eagle Scout has served as SPL, ASPL, OA rep, PL, TG, NYLT TG, NYLT SPL, Philmont Trek lead and many other positions. Right now, at 17, he just wants to chill, go to troop meetings, go on outings, etc. He "leads" by setting a good example. He does not want to be JASM, SPL, etc. Not saying that is right for all but it is right for him (maybe he doesn't want to interact with the SM/dad so much anymore?).

I fully don't comprehend why some troops allow SMs and SAs to participate as board members for an EBOR for Scouts in their unit. Not enough comittee members? Are there enough humans in your town? They don't have to be committee members. All they need to be are adults, not the Scouts parents/guardians and not the Scouts SM or SA(s). If you can't find enough to fill a EBOR how in the world do you accomplish anything else?

I thought that maybe Merlyn would think that Jews and or Christians wrote the Bible. However, I thought that most Christians and Jews would think that God wrote the Bible, utilizing the hands of man. I think God may have made a mistake in that respect. My experience has taught me that on a whole, women have much better penmanship. :-)

Only restriction is no currently registered unit leader/assistant unit leader types. That's SM/ASM, Coach/Assistant Coach, or Advisor/Assistant Advisor. Depending on how one interprets the above it may be incorrect or correct. I am a registered unit leader (Scoutmaster) and it is perfectly kosher for me to sit as an active participant on an Eagle Board of Review. However, only for Scouts who are not in the unit to which I am registered.

I have to admit, the only way I found out about his passing was through the news media coverage that Mitt Romney stopped campaigning for Super Tuesday to attend his funeral. I know the longest serving apostle (Munson) will now become the new president. Can anyone enlighten us on how a LDS apostle is chosen? Is it as simple as being chosen by the current president of the LDS church?

Again, moderators and paid the same as Scoutmasters. Most of us have other jobs as well. I spend maybe 20 minutes/day on average on this forum so I'm sure lots and lots of posts don't even pass my filter (wideband as it is). Like most forums, I feel I know some of the frequent posters and have sort of a built in bias due to past postings (both good and bad). Almost all are adults (chronologically, not maybe by maturity!) and my downfall is I sometimes forget that this forum is often frequented by Scouts. Because of that, I think we should have slightly higher standards (follow the Scout Oath and Law perhaps) than most forums. But yes, it does get difficult sometimes.

Okay, here is my take. I (acco40) purposely wanted to provide a "thought provoking" post and tried to use humor as a vehicle to teach a lesson or two. The thread happened to float around the topic of moderators and if they maybe "moderate" a bit too much or not. (Message to Terry - either change our title to staff member or change the tag line to edited by a moderator). It was also a way to point out, to those who may not have known, how to tell who is and who is not a moderator. FYI - slut is not a vulgar word (according to Webster's Collegiate Dictionary). However, I fully understand why some would find it offensive. By the way, it's primary definition is to define a slovenly woman and not a judgment about sexual behavior. Also, FYI, a moderator (not me) did edit the post and remove that word. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same in this post. I'll also fill you in on a little secret that the moderator who did edit post did not send me a PM as to why or if they could edit. Of course, I wasn't expecting them to do that either. Am I a little peturbed that they edited my post? Well a very tiny bit. I think it is natural for most of us to get a little defensive when our posts are judged as unsuitable for any reason.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Hey look, this poster has an asterisk near his name.Well, duh - that means that they are a moderator - and by the way "senior" is a reference to the amount of posts they have submitted, not their age! Hey, I don't like that tone? Are you mocking me? Well, if the shoe fits ... Well, Jane, you ignorant person ... (This message has been edited by a staff member.) The nerve - that moderator (or is it staff member?) editied my post and didn't even PM me! Harumph! I guess next time he may even delete this post! Well, all I can say is that I think moderators are ... (This message has been edited by a staff member.) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Moderators are like Scouters - we are volunteers, underpaid, make mistakes and usually are well intentioned. Like most of the Scouting positions I've held as an adult, I was asked to be a moderator. I did not solicit to be one. I must admit, I don't view it as a burden, a perk, etc. Now, as most are aware, there are multiple moderators for this forum. I'm one and I have never met any of the others (to my knowledge) and just like the unit I belong too, I don't always agree with what the other moderators do or say. Nothing wrong with that. Please understand that each moderator usually acts on their own so sweeping statements like "the moderators all ..." take way too much liberty.

Shelby Patch Company LLC Saint Clair Shores, MI 48080 586-781-4778

"Does a Scoutmastera "right" to define what a Venture Patrol is to consist of? I think a Scoutmaster should have input to define what the purpose of a Venture Patrol inside of the troop he serves. Like any patrol, the Scoutmaster should not define the patrol members. In short, What? Yes. Who? No.

Being the older mature boys ... What? Since when did age bring on more maturity? I am not talking about fruit, but boys. :-)

Of course if a troop get too big, we could start a Company (or Battalion or Brigade) which would be the coming together of troops. :-) Here is a real-life leadership scenario! You tell me if it is boy led, adult run, good, bad or indifferent. We travelled to the west coast of Michigan for the International Kite Festival! After we dropped the trailer and the QM assigned tents/tarps, etc., I asked the SPL if we should set up our rain/dinning fly and if so where. It is fairly big, takes at least a dozen Scouts to erect, etc. He said he didn't want to put it up at all (without consulting either the ASPL or the PLs). Are you sure I (the SM) asked. I heard it was supposed to rain tomorrow and your plan has us leaving early in the morning and returning in the early evening. Yes he was sure, he thought it was way to much effort for just the possibility of rain. So, I told him what I would do. The adults and just the adults will erect an take down the fly but that if it rained, the adults and just the adults (there were about four of us) would utilize it. Sure he said, snickering. As you can guess, the next day it was raining fairly hard. The temperatures were in the low 50s. I had a private, non-judgmental talk with the SPL (giving him one more chance) explaining that if agreed to help us put it away the following morning we would gladly allow the Scouts to get under the fly. Well, stubbornly he said no. The rain doesn't bother us he said. So, that evening the Scouts got drenched and the next morning the adults put the fly away. No harm, no health and safety and no real arguments. I think it was more a Scout (could you guess a teenager?) testing his independence.

As A SM, I prepare by having attendance, service, POR, etc. information handy and briefly scanned before I meet with the Scouts. For Star and above I request that the Scout fill out a simple one page sheet. Some Scouts communicate better verbally, others by writing. I know I'll have verbal communication - this give those a chance to write down their thoughts. What topics does the written sheet bring up? What is/was your position of responsibility? Describe your participation level in troop activities while a leader. Give yourself a letter grade for your leadership performance and explain why. What advice would you give the next Scout to serve in your leadership position? I've had too many Scoutmaster conferences where getting the Scout to speak is like pulling teeth. One syllable mutterings, yeah, I guess, etc. My intention is just toget the Scout to think about organizing his thoughts.

J-dawg168 - here is my experience (an adults perspective). I had one of my SAs (assistant scoutmasters) proclaim that he wanted to start of Venture Crew. I said go ahead but declined being a leader for that crew. I asked him why not a Venture Patrol in the troop? The major differences as I see it is 1) co-ed, 2) adult age (21 vs. 18) 3) certain activities. Well, we really didn't have any 18 - 21 year olds who wanted to start a crew. If so, I told my SA that I could kind of stretch the rules and appoint a 18-21 year old SA to the Venture Patrol if desired by all parties. As a Scoutmaster, I'd love the boys to form a Venture patrol (they could set a minimum age if desired 13 or 14). There seems to be a natural high school/middle school delineation. I already encourage patrol outings but the boys don't seem to want to plan any on their own or seek assistance in planning one out. I agree with BW, talk to your SM (preferably not on a meeting night) and I bet he (or she) would support you.

It all depends on what one wants to get out of Jambo (and who is paying for it!). I enjoyed it to a degree participating as a Scoutmaster. Most Scouts like it because it is unlike most outings - lot of places to go and things to do. As for being prepared for the weather - here is my take on it. There is hot, there is humid and there is stupid. In 2005, they all converged! Out troop did the DC tour staying each evening in either a school or church with no A/C. That lasted three days. Next, on to Fort Ambrose Hill! Temps were high, humidity was high (heat indexes climbing each day getting around to 115F, actual temps around 100 - 105F). Then time for the "opening ceremony" (the stupid part). Scouts were told they could not bring liquids (security reasons - water would be given once inside the bowl). They were asked to wear their field uniform. We had two "honor scouts" sit in the bowl in the hot sun starting from around 1:00 PM (as required). Our troop was told to line up on the asphalt around 2:00 PM (no shade) and we waited for about three hours moving about 100 ft/hour. Well, direct sun, no water, full uniform, heat index well above 100 and scouts and Scouters started to fall. Our troop did not "lose" anyone but some of the boys and adults were borderline. Well, the opening was cancelled around 5:00 PM (due to weather and not heat but lightning) and I think around 1000 - 1500 people needed medical attention due to heat illnesses. I talked with many of the military folks at the base and they couldn't believe the logistics the BSA was trying to implement. For 2010, I hope they took good notes!

Bob, I'm interested in how you would implement staggering patrol elections. Are you suggesting Patrol 1 elect a PL in January, Patrol 2 in February, Patrol 3 in March, etc.? If a Scout want to become an SPL, how does he approach the PL position opportunity if it does not fall on the same schedule?

Ty Cobb was the best ballplayer ever. Remember, he travelled by train, not airplane. 0.366 batting average 0.433 on base percentage 48 stolen bases (average/season) 103 RBIs (average/season) 0.512 slugging percentage 0.303 batting average 0.375 on base percentage 9 stolen bases (average/season) 60 RBIs (average/season) 0.409 slugging percentage Which set of statistics do you think are "better?"

Let's try to keep this topic on training junior leaders and if others want to discuss Wood Badge staffing requirements they can spin off a new thread. I agree with the fact that the Scoutmaster's primary focus should be training the youth. However, if the SM does not get support and has to direct their energies elsewhere, this is one of the first things that seems to fall by the wayside.

Just like the pause that many put in the Pledge of Alligiance (one nation, under God) doesn't make it correct. May the great master of all Scouts ... getting co-opted to Great Scoutmaster by many doesn't make that correct either.

Like all of us - himself. I agree with earlier posts, the question is not who but what.