Eagle94-A1

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) As @MattR stated, it is an 8 year old thread, but timely in my opinion since I was dealing with this recently. Sadly not every Bear DL actually goes over Whittling Chip. Some use toys to teach it, but do not allow the Cubs to actually use a knife. This was a situation I inherited when I became a WDL; the previous DL used plastic knives to teach, but would not allow them to use actual knives, nor gave them their cards. First thing as a WDL I did was teach Whittling Chip. As for a troop recognizing WC for new Scouts, while I would prefer it to be the PLC's decision, it is ultimately the SM's decision. I've seen some recognize WC and allow new Scouts to use a pocket knife until they earn TC and others do not. I was in one troop that the SM based his decision to recognize WC based upon his observation of the Webelos when they camped with us. If they were using knives properly, no problem. If not, then he would make them wait until earning Totin Chip. Got interesting one year when a den from one pack was allowed to use knived because of WC, and a den from another pack wasn't. But the SM saw the first den actually use their knives safely to build shelters, fires, and cooking implements for CASTAWAY ADVENTURE prior to Crossing Over, and did not once see the other den use knives at all when they were with us. FYI this knife myth is the result of various knife laws. Some jurisdictions only allow pocket knives, some laws limit size of the blade, some laws say youth cannot posses, and some laws prohibit certain types of knives. I had a discussion with one SM who moved into the area about this matter. Told me I could not allow sheath knives at a BSA camporee with a survival theme. Pointed out the G2SS, Scoutshop.com's links to the sheath knives, and BSA publications that stated sheath knives, where allowed, are perfect for survival. Even pointed out that one BSA publication written by Hugh McManners stated that a Kukri is the best survival knife. One of the reasons I got a Becker 21 :) As for alcohol stoves, thankfully BSA only bans the homemade ones. I remember when making these stoves were in the Cub Scout Leader How-To Book. Bit the bullet and got a Trangia, and to cut down on weight a Batchstovez 2.0FE. Both are a lot more reliable than my MSR Whisperlight International. Twice now it has let me down when I needed it. As long as I have fuel for my alcohol stoves, I am golden.

Go for it. extremely true. One of the best Scouts I ever knew, never earned Eagle. He saved my life though from skills he learned in Scouting.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2) As others have said, it's a journey enjoy. 3) HEAR YOU SCOUTS, AND YOU PARENTS TOO, OF THE ... TALE OF TWO EAGLES! Once there were two Eagles. The First Eagle was the son of a "Double Eagle," or an Eagle Scout and Explorer Silver recipient. "Double Eagle" dad pushed and pushed and pushed his son to earn Eagle at the ripe old age of 13. Since the Silver Award was no longer around for Exploring, dad did no pushing for that. Since the First Eagle met his dad's expectations, and thought his journey was over, he quit Scouting at 13, only to rejoin many years later when his own son became a Tiger Cub. Now the First Eagle had a cousin. Both "Double Eagle" Uncle and First Eagle Cousin pushed and pushed and pushed the Scout to earn his Eagle. As a 13 year old Life Scout, he was well on his way to becoming an Eagle at 14. But the Second Eagle took some winding trails after earning Life. First he did a local high adventure program instead of the traditional MB summer camp program, and he had FUN! A few months later he took the NYLT course of its day; Brownsea 22. It was a challenging week and he had FUN. Next Second Eagle was inducted into the OA, becoming a Brotherhood Member before earning Eagle. And guess what, HE HAD FUN! Then Second Eagle went to a National Scout Jamboree and then did a Canadian canoeing trek. It it was FUN. Finally Second Eagle realized he was 17 and some odd months, and he needed to buckle down fast if he was to become an Eagle. He finished everything but his Eagle BOR 5 days before turning 18. And Second Eagle stayed active in Scouting. He got involved in Sea Scouts, earning Ordinary, and then the OA again, becoming a Vigil. Second Eagle was selected to participate in the European Camp Staff Program, spending an entire summer at Scout camps in the UK. He also attended a World Scout Jamboree. He stayed active in a variety or roles, and was proudest when his three sons earned their Bobcat badge wit him as their DL. Now tell me who had more fun in Scouting, my cousin the First Eagle, or me the Second Eagle? Over the years, no one has asked me how old i was when i got it, or how many palms I earned. They ask if I am an Eagle, and what my adventures have been. And I can go on and on about my 35 years in Scouting as a youth and adult. Good luck on your journey.

I admit I like Webelos to join in the December to February time frame if, stressing IF, they are not forced through the program to get things signed off. Pack my older boys were in was a year round pack, so they work on stuff over the summer. Both the dens had Webelos chomping at the bit to become Boy Scouts. Oldest son's den crossed over in December, Middle son's in January. Part of it was the recharter; it didn't make sense to recharter them for a few months only to have them transfer. And part of it was THEY WERE READY (emphasis). The pack has changed over the years, and the pack has not been as active over the summer as in previous years. They are looking for at a February Cross Over. They group overall is almost finished AOL. Come January, it will be visiting troops, and PWD for the bulk of them. The few who need to make up stuff will be doing so. I have found if the Webelos actually do the requirements, instead of being "pencil whipped," and are not forced through the Webelos Program to get into a troop early, a December through March Crossover is very helpful. It gets both the youth, and more importantly the parents, comfortable with the other youth and adults in the troop. It also gives them a chance to save up money for summer camp. I know that when I crossed over May under the old 3 year Cub Scout program, my mom was not comfortable enough with the troop's adults, nor did I have the funds to pay for camp that was about 3 or 4 weeks after Crossover. But as you all know from this original topic of this thread, and others, I've seen how ill prepared Webelos, and worse ill prepared parents, can turn a troop upside down, hold it hostage, and slowly destroy the troop from the inside. Seen it once with one troop, and seeing it happen again. I am hoping and praying that my talk with my friends will actually influence them to make the changes they say they are now going to do. It will greatly improve the situation for the Scouts. I just wish I did not have to do the drastic action of transferring to a different troop. On a more positive note, and back on topic. My boys are happy with the troop. upset they are missing the backpacking trip, but looking forward to spring trip as they traditionally do 2 per year. Troop meeting reminded me a lot of my troop I grew up in. Looking at last year's schedule, they had a very active year. Now a question for the older fogeys on this site. When did BSA start promoting a Scouting Year based upon a School Year? I ask because the troop we just left based it on a calendar year. The troop we switched to also does it on the calendar year. I do know the old troop has a history dating to the 1940s, and the current one to the 1920s. So I am thinking this was something the troops have always done. Kinda like those troops that use TRADITIONAL PATROLS, i.e. Mixed aged patrols.

When I say prepare them for Boy Scouts, I mean the following. Parents are backing away from doing things for the Webelos, and the Webelos are doing it themselves. If they need help, instead of turning to adults, they turn to their den mates.This prepares them to do thing on their own or with their patrol. Instead of parents signing off on advancement, with a few possible exceptions, i.e. the 2 Duty to God adventures, the WDL, Den Chief, or a specified adult who is the 'counselor" for the adventure is signing off on advancement. This prepares them for working with Sm and MBCs. They develop their own den spirit which simulates patrol spirit. And not only camping in a tent without a parent, but also doing the work, i.e. cooking, KP, pitching tents, etc without parental interference. On a tangent, if I seem a little negative in my posts, bear with me. Still going through the gamut of emotions on leaving. Especially since I didn't get a chance to tell all of my Scouts good bye. Long story short, after finishing up with the Webelos and telling them good bye, I had to talk to my den chief. Not only to prep him to take over until they find a new WDL, but also to help him finish up his MBs for Star. Long story short, he's got to make Life this month, and bust butt to get Eagle by late June. That took a while, and the troop finished up the meeting without us. Plus I have a prior commitment on the new troop's next camp out: backpacking. Considering my last two backpacking trips had to be cancelled due to a bear attack and severe weather, my sons and I have been itching to backpack. And we were planning a family one over Thanksgiving, but that changed too. So if some of my posts seem negative, especially when dealing with pushy adults, please bear with me. Now on to something more positive. Boys are impressed with the new troop. While it was "organized chaos" it was better organized chaos than where we came from. With the exception of one special needs Scout, adults didn't intervene at all. The meeting was on backpacking, and the "adult interference" was actually them asking questions. One of the ASMs hasn't been backpacking before.

If they were going into your troop, I'd say nip it in the bud before it gets worse. I've seen parents like this and it can destroy a troop if you let them. Since they are going to another troop, it's up to you. Part of me says no, don't give them anything. Especially since if memory serves, at the Webelos level, the WDL and those assigned by the WDL are the only ones who can sign off in the book. I know in the pre-2015 program that was the case so that they can prepare for rank advancement and working with MBCs And part of me knows how dealing with these type of folks can be physically and emotionally draining. And it is worth getting rid of them.

I am going to admit that my opinion will be biased. TELL THE PARENTS NOT TO DO THIS AGAIN AND IF THEY DO THEY WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE. (caps for emphasis, not shouting.) And if they continue, follow through with asking them to leave. As many of you know, I just transferred troops because of parents interfering with the patrols, and camp outs turning into Cub family camping. It started out as an attempt to ease the Scouts and parents into Boy Scouting, but limits were not enforced and it got worse. Morale in the troop is at the lowest I've ever seen it. Since I've left, I am finding out about more challenges from the Scouts than the ones they told me about.

Well tonight is the last meeting with the old troop. I am going through a bunch of emotions. I know it's best for my sons, but I still feel bad as I feel I am abandoning my Scouts and friends. I talking to some about why I am leaving, I get the feeling there is a lot of unrest beneath the surface. I had a feeling about 1/3 would eventually transfer, but I have a feeling it may be higher if things do not change ASAP. I am told my leaving is causing the core leadership to reevaluate the entire situation, and I hope change does happen. I do not wan to see the troop die.

At least you didn't threaten to call Child Protective Services. :) Seriously, we had an incident at a summer camp I worked at where the SM wanted to send the kid home, and the parents refused to pick him up as they were on a second honeymoon at Disney. Camp director then got involved. He informed the the parents they needed to pick up their son, and they refused. "We paid for summer camp, he's staying at summer camp" or words to that affect. That's when the CD gave them a choice: pick up their son by a certain time (driving time from Disney + 60 minutes) or he would report that they have a minor who had been abandoned by his parents. They made it in time. Seriously, there are some parents who do not care what the troop wants or does.If you don't nip it in the bud now, it will get worse. Trust me on that one.;)

TIMELY! I just found out a respected Scouter at the unit and district level had their membership revoked because they disagreed with how the council was handling a YP issue. They called the national hotline to discuss the matter. SE found out and revoked their membership. I have a feeling the SE will have a huge amount of egg on their face when everything settles.

I'm glad Parkman's method works for his unit. We did something similar, and it has not worked out. That's one reason why we are transferring. What's ironic is stuff I suggested in the past to help deal with the situation is now being considered. The new adults in question have ignored all those who have been trying to help them and their sons, including the SM. My idea of Webelos -to-Scout Transition is multiyear process that really picks up as Webelos. It involves the use of Den Chiefs, Order of the Arrow ( at least until Dec. 31st. OA ceremony team refuses to do the new national ceremonies, with or without regalia), and visiting the "Common Areas" of the Boy Scout Camporee and Cub Scout Family Campout." As Webelos it really picks up. Working on Scouting Adventure as Webelos 1s to get them and their parents use to the Patrol Method and what is expected of them. Promoting camping with the troop, especially since NONE of my Webelos have ever camped before (yes the returning Webelos have NEVER camped in their 3 previous years, despite 2 camp outs a year the Pack does). Webeloree, a competition just like Camporee, is a major even in the district, and now council. it's always good fun, and prepares them for Boy Scouts very well, IF THE PARENTS GET OUT OF THE WAY AND LETS THEM DO STUFF ON THEIR OWN. (emphasis)

Yes I think I may be the catalyst. SM is not happy I am leaving, as well as 2 ASMs. Once our fundraiser is done, there will be a maor talk witrh the adults.

One of the things my troop growing up did was restrict new Scouters, except the 18-20 year olds, to committee positions for a minimum of a year, and they had to complete training. After a few months supporting the troop, they could go camping with us. We had CCs who rode herd on the adults, letting the SM focus on the SPL and Scouts. That was a comment I made to the SM today. Just wish the Scout tied a bowline for the rescue Book is even better.

A few comments. 1) had an 1:30 chat with the SM over lunch. It went well, all things considered. He understands why we are leaving, and doesn't have a problem with it. He is also going to sit down and have a chat with the core leadership group before having a "come to Jesus Meeting" with some families. 2) Please keep up the conversation on Webelos to Scout Transition, and if this needs it's own thread, I am OK with it. Part of our conversation was this exact topic: Webelos to Scout Transition and Parents. The pack is not doing a good job, one of the reasons I went back to DL, and we talked about ways to improve the situation. Both are concerned about the Webelos crossing over this year as they have done NOTHING with the troop: have not visited yet, have not camped with us, not a thing. Worried how they will transition. And now he needs to help find a DL for the Webelos 1s. Good thing is their Bear DL is a camping fiend. Lots of expereince in the Patrol method, and cannot wait for his son to be a scout.

Remember Maison Blanche quite well. My brother worked there, and I got my Cub Scout uniform from there too. Thank you for letting me know about that fireball of energy going home. I can't believe it. She was an outstanding Scouter, who will be deeply missed.

Agree 100% Especially since every troop is different. One troop might not suit what a Scout is looking for. I know the troop I first joined has some issues. I eventually left and moved to the troop I aged out of and volunteered first with until I left for my first post-college job. I've found most Scouters are willing to help a Scout pick the right troop. Heck one troop we planned to visit said they were full and pointed to the troop we are joining to visit. But there are Scouters out there who are possessive, and view any outside recruiting of "their pack" as poaching and unScoutlike. The Scouters and I in the troop I am currently with have been accused of being poachers. I talked about working with Webelos with the SM for several reasons. One was the high attrition rate. The Webelos that join are not staying. Last year, only 33% of those crossing over are here today. Year before that is a little better, 55%, but that is the group with parents wanting their sons to earn Eagle and have a continuation of Cub Scouts. No matter how many times you talk to them, no matter what training they have taken, they are doing their own thing. In the pack I am a DL for, I've found the Webelos are still being treated like Cub Scouts, and then the Scouts and parents move up and are totally unprepared for the changes.I wanted to begin the transition process NOW in an attempt to lower attrition. Another reason was that I wanted to train these Webelos so that they would be able to jump right in and do anything needed within their patrols. Folks here know I am not a fan of NSPs as I had issues with them over the years. Only once did I see a possibility of a Webelos den crossing over intact as a NSP and being able to meet the challenges. Sadly, that patrol split and joined 2 different troops. Those Scouts, and their parents, are causing no problems with either troop. I was hoping to recreate that den.

While I am a big proponent of visiting multiple troops, I was not planning to organize multiple visits, but encourage individuals to visit. A little history behind the Webelos and two Troops. Back in the day, one of the pack's Webelos DLs was also an ASM with the same troop I am soon to join. Webelos started joining the troop I am about to join, and not the troop I'm leaving. In a few years, the troop died, and it was blamed on the DL. 2 adults are still involved with the troop from then, and it is a very sore point with them. When we lost an entire den to the troop, those 2 leaders were furious. It didn't matter that several Webelos were in that CO's pack when it folded and they joined us,and 2 Webelos had brothers in that troop. The 2 adults concern was a repeat of what happened. Understandable.

Never heard of the wheel either. And doing a quick looksee on Google, I found one syllabus with some inaccutate info on it. BSA does not have any restrictions on size and type of knives. Local laws may say otherwise. I've already carried my 13 and 1/4" Kukri to a camporee.

I reread, and needed to edit it. I do not blame the SM. heck I sympathize with him. I blame the parents that keep interfering. No, just worried about losing a friendship. Happened once when I didn't go to one troop. With all the blood sweat, tears, and treasure We have invested, both figuratively and literally, I owe him a face to face. And thank you for wishing well.

Now is the part of the transfer I am dreading, why we are leaving and having folks follow us over. As I mentioned, word is out, and I already had one Scout call my oldest about the matter. he plans on transferring. And I can see 2 to 3 others doing the same. Had the SM message me last nite about what could the troop do to keep us. This was after my boys visited the troop. The positivity and happiness was a 180 turnaround of late. So I told the SM it is too late. But I want to meet with him, and go into specifics without having to worry about eavesdroppers or dealing with the challenging people causing the issues. I've had enough of them. But the hard part will be conveying that it wasn't all the SM's fault. It wasn't. The "family friendly" policy is something he inherited, it just was not being used like it is now. And that is why my kids have been frustrated. And when parents won't listen to the SM, let alone his existing ASMs, it is his fault. Combined with not having an active CC, he is trying to keep the troop together by himself. I know he's getting frustrated.

EXCELLENT! My boys have also been frustrated with their troop, and are switching. Monday will be their last with the current troop. Tuesday they are turning in the transfer paperwork to the new troop.

Well the boys and I came back from visiting the troop. Meeting was atypical, only uniforms worn were by my sons and the adults. It was their annual Halloween party with a costume contest. Orsin Krennic won best costume. Overall it went very well. My guys were a little nervous and standoffish at first, but once the food was served, it went well. They had a good time. The word is out, and one of the folks I thought would transferred called to find out and said he's thinking of it.

Is the SE’s name Jack Crawford by any chance? Yes, I’ve encountered a SE and DFS who had a long time volunteer’s membership permanently revoked. I do not know all the details, but apparently the volunteer found out the council did not have insurance for an event. Accident happened, and there was no coverage. Because the accident was a violation of G2SS, riding in back of truck, volunteer was removed when he made a stink of not having insurance for the event.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS CODY AND SHINGOBEEK! (And yes, I'm yelling my welcome at the topof my lungs! ) 2) Regarding basic training, yes it's a hoop we who have been through the program needs to jump through. After coming up through the program, and going through Brownsea 22, my period's NYLT, I only learned one new thing: the paperwork side of Scouting. How a troop operates, camping, etc was all old hat. BUT one benefit was meeting people allover my council.That was a very big benefit as I had more resources I could talk to. 3) CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH!! ( caps for emphasis) I learned more about being a Scouter sitting around campfires, drinking coffee, hot cocoa, or bug juice, and listening to the older Scouters than I did in all my adult training combined. I still come to the virtual campfire to vent and get ideas. As well as help others. 4) Regarding WB, Part of me regrets not doing WB when I was in college. there were times and locations where the attitude was " if you don't wear beads, you don't know squat." Kinda like how some Scouters may still view you as a kid. frustrating is an understatement. But another part of me is glad I did not do WB. I staffed JLTC, the immediate predecessor to NYLT, and it was "Wood Badge Lite:" only differnce was the Scouts did not have to do a ticket. One of my fellow staffers commented WB was a waste of time for him since everything we covered in JLTC was covered in WB. Good luck

As Julius Caesar said, "Alea iacta est." The die is cast. Informed the SM next week is our last one with the troop to finish things up. Also told the CM I will be stepping down as Webelos DL. I don't feel comfortable being the WDL for this pack anymore since the entire purpose was not only to fill a position, but promote the troop and prepare them to join it. I do not want a repeat of being blamed for stealing another troop's Webelos. SM got the full story. CM got the one for public consumption, Monday nites are getting crazy for us. That is true. but it isn't everything as I've posted here.