Eagle94-A1

I lost a lot of stuff that was at my mom's house in Hurricane Katrina:patches, jackets, etc. From a collector's side I was able to find a 1995 WSJ necker and patch with one auction. The most meaningful one for me though was the Brownsea 22 patch. Best one was the result of several auctions over several months. And that was my wife's 1950s/60s blue Den Mother's uniform dress.

Please bear with us. We are not disbelieving you. Rather we are disbelieving what national is putting out. Some of us have been involved withe the BSA for a long time in many different capacities. We have seen how National has skewed data in the past to get the results they wanted. And this has repeatedly happen over the years. EDITED: first case of that happening that I know of is the OPERATION FIRST CLASS report that @Eagledad talks about. As a 15 year old Life Scout, I even commented on how skewed the report was for aged based patrols. And sometimes BSA doesn't publish results, or even ignores the published results. They never did post the internal results of one series of polls. And another time, they completely ignored the 94% who either disagreed(16%) or strongly disagreed (78%) with removing tenure requirements for Eagle Palms. So again, we are not disbelieving you, but the BSA. Anytime someone or a corporation invests time and money into something, they want facts to support them. And it's not only the BSA. Look at Seattle. They hired a college to come up with how the $15/hour minimum wage they implemented is helping out. When the university showed them the preliminary results, and those results were NOT supporting Seattle's wishes, they fired the university researchers, and hired another. Here is the kicker, the other university had 1 month to take the data the first university collected and shared with the city and prove the city's position. And the 1 month deadline was to publish the results before the original university published theirs.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! ( and yes that is me shouting my welcome at you ;) 2) Maybe I can help. BSA Lifeguard, and some places offer duel ARC Lifeguard certification, is a nationally recognized, professional lifeguard certification that equips folks to work at pools. It is heavily based on the ARC Lifeguard course, using their videos and books if I remember correctly. When I did BSA Lifeguard, If I wanted to pay the extra money and take the ARC Lifeguard test, I could be duel certified. ARC Lifeguard is a more recognizable certification, and some states do not recognize BSA Lifeguard ( an aside, some states also do not recognize Lifeguard Instructor Certification as a "Lifeguard Certification" i.e. NJ). The emphasis is on pools with one canoe rescue when I did BSA Lifeguard a few years back. It also requires a specific number of hours. As SSScout said, it can lead to a job, especially for youth doing a duel BSA/ARC Lifeguard certification. The two separate Aquatic Supervision Courses, Swimming and Water Rescue and Paddle Craft Safety , are not professional certifications. They are step above Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat. They are designed to give Scouters the skills for beach front swimming activities and conducting boating activities, specifically canoeing, kayaking, or both depending upon the course. That includes rescues. Again if memory serves, the two Aquatic Supervision courses are using some of the Waterfront Aquatics Manager Supervisor material, but as it relates to BSA. AND IT IS NOT CONSIDERED A PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATION ( caps for emphasis, not shouting. I've done all three. The Aquatic Supervision certs are 3 years, while BSA Lifeguard is 2 years. I had overlap. I plan to recertify in the Supervision courses as they appeal more to Scouting than the Lifeguard class.

Associate Adviser is a separate position. The AA's job is to assist the Chapter Adviser with with the various duties. It varies from chapter to chapter and lodge to lodge. I was an AA once when I was helping to restart an OA chapter. I worked with the CA and the youth to get things up and running. When the CA was notable to do something, I was there.

In my neck of the woods, council camporee does not have an overall winner. Instead patrols accumulate points and the color ribbon is based upon what range of points you score i.e. 151-200 points = blue; 101-150 = red; etc.whoopie you won a blue ribbon, just like a bunch of other patrols. The pst 2 years my old troop didn't go to council camporee. This year my new troop may not go. Although thatis mroe related to the fact that 2/3 of the troop may be at a state competition rather than how the camproee is. District Camporee is different. We do points and there is a 1st place, 2nd place, and 3rd place patrol. We also do some specialty awards, i.e. Dutcvh Oven Cook Off, and when we have them Halloween Costume Contest.

A variation of knot tying and firebuilding; build a fire, boil water, cook a noodle, and tie a square knot under 30 minutes. You would be surprised at how many Scouts cannot do it. But everyone seemed to have loved the event. Also a variation of pioneering was catapults: build the catapult, and launch tennis balls for distance and at targets for an event. Dutch Oven Cook Off, both Scout Division ( for a prize and points) and Scouter Division (bragging rights) is poplar. Our OA members, who are the judges, eat well that weekend Theme that attracted the most interest was a Wilderness Survival theme. While we had some challenges, mostly due to adults, overall the Scouts had fun.I think the fact that we encouraged them to bring, and use fixed blade knives was a draw. One popular event was the survival shelter building. Scouts ate it up. Complaint we got from the Scouts was that it was one per troop. Not everyone got involved in building it. I admit I caved in on that with so many people complaining about building 1 per patrol. (an aside, My oldest son was responsible for building the troop's shelter. They came in 2nd overall, and it was extremely close. The judges liked how he used bamboo to collect water. But the side vent in the first place shelter, which prevented moisture accumulating inside the shelter since it was cold weather was the deciding factor.

Interesting that GSUSA left out the rest of that statistic. Gotta find the interview, but t seem to recall its stated "at least once a year." That tells me a lot of their outdoor program.

A boys' troop and a girls' troop can form "linked troops" that share everything: committee, ASMs, equipment, meeting times and places, activities, and campouts. Only thing they cannot share is a SM.3 So it is permissible that the two troops get mixed together for meetings, activities, and camp outs.

There were a lot of changes to the program, some major, some minor. Changes include the following: Doing away with Skill Awards Doing away with time requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class ( Part of Operation First Class which turned into First Class First Year) Promoting aged based patrols, i.e. New Scout Patrol, Experienced Patrol, and Venture Crew for older Scouts (which turned into Venture Patrol in 1998 when Venturing came out) instead of Traditional Patrols, aka Mixed Aged Patrols, and the Leadership Corps for older Scouts, Doing away with the Leadership Corps as a POR and creating Venture crews/patrols instead. Scouts no longer conducting Board of Reviews for Tenderfoot through First Class (although it did take a while for some troops to get the word) World Crest was no longer an award you had to earn, everyone could wear it (Grant you this mandate came from WOSM, still it ticked those of us who earned it, or were inthe process of earning it off. And they made the WOSM mandate effective when all the other changes occurred) Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. I believe there were more changes. Ideally Courts of Honor every 3 months, but most of the troops I've been in held them every 4: Usually April, August, and December. It is a very big deal with families invited, formal ceremony, and everyone brought some type of desert for the reception afterwards. The April one with reception usually lasted the entire meeting time. The August one usually lasted longer since it also included all of the summer camp merit badges and awards. December was usually the shortest and held in conjunction with a Christmas Party. In the troop growing up, par to that COH was the issuing of new troop t-shirts. The logo never changed, but the color of the ink and shirt did. The troop I am currently with now is quite small. Their last COH lasted less than 45 minutes. As for waiting, it depended upon when the BOR was. Some Scouts might wait 4 months, others might wait a week. Exception to that was Eagle. Eagle planned COH as he and his family wanted. Between the EBOR and my COH, it was 5 months. Grant you part of that was dealing with council's messed up records (5 weeks and 3 visits to the office) andpart of that was waiting for the word to come back from national (another 4 weeks).

In all seriousness, Get you existing troop to purchase "Replacements." You still need to fill out an Advancement Report, and need to use real names ( I also put real dates they earned them) My Scout Shop supported a Direct Service Council troop. Their CO was a Fortune 500 company in my city, and they did quarterly orders for advancement which the company shipped. EVERY SINGLE ADVANCEMENT ITEM WAS A "REPLACEMENT." (emphasis). I had questions it and talked to my manager. She knew the story and it was OK'd.

That's the pre-1989 way of doing things; an "Attaboy" after the BOR and formal presentation of rank and all other awards at the COH. Believe it or not, there is actually reasons for the restrictions. One reason is that records need to be kept for verification purposes. Not every Scout shop follows the rules, and some do not require paperwork. So when the paperwork never gets turned in, there are problems later down the road. Then you get parents trying to buy their kids rank. Not so much at the Scouts, BSA level, but plenty on the Cub Scout side. Another is folks trying to make costumes for Halloween and Mardi Gras. We had 3 sorority girls from my university come to my Scout Shop and spent a long time shopping for a costume. When they came to check out, I asked to see their membership cards to purchase the uniforms ( yes once upon a time, you had to show your membership card to buy your uniform. It was mentioned in the book still, but not enforced)

If BSA caves, then Eagle Scout loses even more luster than it has already. It's one thing for her troop leaders to sign off on that stuff. sadly I've seen the results of when it happens and National won't do anything about it. And i have a feeling that is what is going to happen here. But for national to just cave would be a travesty, There are THOUSANDS of female Venturers who did things by book, and who comparable experienceince in Venturing that could lead towards Eagle if they were male,.who would be dishonored by BSA caving in.

That larger pin is not for immediate recognition, but is actually a Rank pin, worn on the pocket in lieu of the patch.Unless things have changed since I worked in supply, it is a restricted item and needs an Advancement Report. I remember the complaints we got about the First Class Rank Pin and the Campaign Hats and Expedition hats. The Insignia Guide stated youth wore the First Class Rank pin, but they could not buy it without providing paperwork. Saw many a Scout wear the Adult Universal Pin instead. If you are a linked troop, see if the boys's troop can spot you some patches. If not, see if any of their Scouts will buys some "Replacements" to get your supply started.

Not me. I am with another troop now, plus I have no daughters. It was bad enough when I had no children and/or unmarried in the program being a 18 - 30 year old ASM and other PORs. I had folks view me suspicion for being in the program still (even in the troop I grew up in, some parents were suspicious until they found out my history and/or got to knew me). I can only imagine what it would be like for a guy with no daughter or granddaughter in the troop, being a SM or ASM will be viewed as. Also t I've seen first hand what an accusation will do to a Scouter: ruin their life. Friend of mine was accused of making a pass at a Scout. Her membership was revoked permanently ( she had to get special permission to attend the council banquet when her son was recognized as an Eagle), and a criminal investigation was done on the matter. She was found innocent, with no charges filed. All because she caught a Scout after hours being a peeping Tom at the ladies shower house after hours and he lied to not get into trouble. As for another guy, they have been trying to get the troop started for 8 to 9 months now. No one is stepping up.

I think she will use the extension IF the BSA doesn't cave in. From the article: " "I, and other girls in my position, will eventually be able to become recognized Eagle Scouts, but the question is if they are going to count all of the many years of work we did prior to Feb. 1," she said."

I am now worried about one particular boys' troop. Since there are no females willing to take over SM duties for a girls' troop, the CO's boys' SM is now considering stepping down as SM there to be the SM for his daughter and her friends. I understand family first, and completely agree. But between the issues affecting that boys' troop, and knowing that no one is either willing or capable of filling his shoes as SM, I see that boys' troop folding within a year. I hope I am wrong.

Those firebuckets, are still a requirement at the camporees in my neck of the woods. Lot of storage space wasted on those cans which are used twice a year.

Hopefully BSA won't cave in. It will set a very bad precedent if they did. And I bet her dad and the other Scouters in the troop she has been tagging along with will give her credit for the work anyway.

No. They have to be a brand new Scout and start from scratch on rank advancement. Bet Ireland was an influence on this policy being made.

A bunch actually. Most camps in the UK are open to any Scout groups. From what I've heard so is most of the European ones too.

I've been is Scouting way too long. So long that some of my Eagles are now Den Leaders, and one or two are even ASMs in their son's troops. So I have a lot of experience. But I still learn new things everyday. And I relearn things all the time too. One of the things I relearned from this is TRUST YOUR GUT FEELING! (emphasis) I was district training chairman once upon a time, and I would like to say I did a good job. I helped a lot of new Scouters with those classes. One of the troop I was particularly proud of was the troop I intended to join 7 or 8 years ago because I trained their SM and ASMs and they got it. The troop wasn't perfect, no brand new troop is, but working with their Scouters was great. They were attentive, asked good questions, and listened to the biggest challenge for adults of the Patrol Method: it is organized chaos an will take 2 to 3 times longer for the Scouts to do things initially. Sometimes the new guys had ideas and thoughts about things that I had no idea if it would work or not. And sometimes they tried things I had deep reservations about. So I suggested, give it a shot. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't Best example is the NSP they did. It was the only time I've seen it work as it is suppose to. The reason why I think it did was because the ASM was also the WDL with the affiliated pack, and they began the Webelos-To-Scout Transition as soon as they became Webelos. But just as folks learn from their successes, folks also learn from their failures. That same troop got a new SM, and I knew he would need help because he was untrained. I put a lot of effort into training him and the new batch of ASMs they got, just crossed over from Cub Scouts. Long story short, The training went in one ear and out the other. I ended up being their UC, and tried to mentor and counsel them because they started hemorrhaging Scouts. Some told me I didn't know what I was talking about, others said Scouting needs to change with the times and their new methods worked better. I asked for another UC to work with them since I could not help them. They created a "high speed, low drag" advancement troop with little camping outside of MB weekends. It got worse and worse until they were on the verge of extinction. Eventually they learned why none of the Cubs were crossing over into their troop, and they changed how they did things. They learned from their experience and are now slowly improving the troop. So just as you need to let Scouts learn from failure to improve themselves and their patrols and troop, we old fogeys need to let the new crop of Scouters learn from their mistakes. Yes we need to train them, counsel them, and mentor them. But we also need to "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" (sic) i did that with my old troop. I let the Scouters make their mistakes and they are now learning from them. If the troop survives, and I am praying it does, I think those Scouters will be better off, and the troop will grow stronger over time. And I learned to trust my gut instinct, especially when it comes to my sons. As soon as I recognized the troop's problem, knew that it would not be handled in a timely manner, knew it would fester and get worse, and most importantly SAW IT NEGATIVELY AFFECTING MY SONS (emphasis), I should have left. Again I do not want the troop to die. I want the troop to get on the right path. I want it to succeed. But I am ready with throwlines and ring buoys to save my Scouts if they need saving.

I have to agree, "Teachable" can be applied to anyone. One of the parents causing problems has completed all training: YPT2, SM and ASM Specific, and ItOLS. According to BSA, he is fully trained. However he still does not understand the Boy Scout, 5 days away from Scouting BSA, Program. And multiple attempts to teach him have proved fruitless.

Actually I found out she messaged me before I read her message from the SM and an ASM. Apparently she asked them about me, then told them she messaged me about it. Not that it really mattered IMHO. They were told the all of the reasons why I was leaving. And she did share my response with her husband, and I bet their friends too. At this stage, I think he would rather be SM of his daughter's troop than the boys' troop. Not only would he be working with his daughter, he would not have to deal with drama.

Sadly one family's Scout is First Class because the parents have pushed the issue. While the Scout may have done the skills, it is with dad always right there telling him what to do. Plus his Scout Spirit is a challenge for me. This is the Scout who for over a year has snuck back into his dad's tent, or if the entire family was there, the family tent. This Scout routinely abandons his patrol when there is work to do. On the last camp out I was at, he left his patrol whenever he could and stayed with the family instead. The SM has compromised with his argumentative parents in efforts to get the Scout back on the right track.The Scout really could use unabridged, Patrol Method Scouting to grow up some. So I can understand the SM trying to work it out. But I knew it would affect the rest of the troop morale wise and advised against it. I predicted the compromise would also cause further problems,and IMHO the compromise has backfired and made it worse. Not only has the scout not lived up to his end of the bargain, the parents have gotten more and more demanding and willing to ignore the SM and other Scouters. This family includes the ASM who left summer camp with his son during the middle of the week to stay in a hotel with the wife and younger son without telling anyone The other family's Scout is Second Class, and my impression is that he is only there because his parents are forcing him to become an Eagle. He has not gone camping on a regular basis, always something else coming up, and didn't go to summer camp. To date every camp out he has been on has included mom, dad, or both, including mom's attendance at 2017 summer camp. My impression is that he could care less about completing MBs as evidenced by his mom harping on MBCs to finish stuff he started, or complaining that MBCs are not working with her son when misses MBC sessions being offered. After the implied threat, when he did camp, I stayed away and let others deal with him. Because I am also a RT commissioner, I have friends in the entire district. I know that one family has talked to the Scouters in another troop. Don't know about the other family. Irony is this: the troop they talked to is more "Old School" than any other in the district, and probably the council. They also have the "Trained ASM's only" policy, and the adults try to stay 300 feet away from the scouts.

Actually took my Becker 21 to slice the line. Seriously, I really think the troop will fold within a year. SM, who is the reason why I stayed as long as I did and is the reason why many of the Scouts are with the troop, has had it for sometime. He came close to cutting off his SM patch and giving it to them on the FUBAR camp out. And now that his daughter can be in Scouts BSA next week, he is in the process of getting a female troop going for her. He has been trying for 6 or 7 months, and cannot get a female SM, so it looks like it is going to be him. Nobody in the troop is either capable of doing the job ( the two troublesome dads) or wants to deal with the headaches the 2 families are causing. The only one who could possibly, stress POSSIBLY, pull it off is ASM Gunship. He's improved some over time, but I do know several families have concerns about him as SM. And they would leave. But that sinking ship is not the one I am on anymore. However I am ready to throw some ring buoys and my boys are ready with throw-bags to rescue any of the Scouts.