Eagle94-A1

As others have mentioned, the G2SS is constantly being updated, to the point that even the professionals cannot keep up with all the changes (kinda sad when I have to tell the SE something is no longer allowed in the GTSS) Prior to 2012, patrols could camp on their own without adults. UP to 2018, patrols could do day activities: meetings, hikes, grocery shopping, etc, on their own without adults. So back in our day, what happened with your troop, your older Scouts taking over without adults, was perfectly acceptable. While @RichardB is a product of the program and should know how the program is supposed to work, I wonder sometimes if A) his involvement was during the screwed up "Improved Scouting Program" fiasco that took the outing out of Scouting and he did not get a true Scouting program ( saw that happen with some SMs and ASMs I trained and/or worked with who did not understand why camping was important), or B) if his time as a health and safety guy has blinded him to how the program is supposed to work. And I am still upset that the lie that Dodgeball has never been an approved activity is still posted in the FAQ, Not only do I have published works with Dodgeball and its variants as approved games, but also pointed out to him on the Scouting.org website AFTER THE BAN WAS PUT IN PLACE (emphasis) that dodgeball and several variants were an approved games on their website. Like 1984, the information that BSA did approve Dodgeball was quickly removed. Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. The 1970s' Improved Scouting Program fiasco shows what happens when you take the outing out of Scouting. Back then, William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt was alive, and saved Scouting when he came out of retirement to write the 1979 Handbook. As for "family scouting," I saw what it almost did to my old troop. COR had to intervene to keep it a traditional troop. If "family scouting" is what we turn into, I see a 100 year old troop folding, and many others. Something similar happened to a friend of mine. As SPL, he ran the troop without any adults. At 18, he was de facto SM and was doing such a good job, remained the SM for over 60 years. Sons and grandsons of his original Scouts were in the troop.

In my 36 years being involved with Boy Scouts/Scouts BSA, only 1, again ONLY 1, has ever said the Outdoor Code as a part of their opening and/or closing ceremony. They do keep the Scout Sign up for it.

What's recruiting? Seriously we have been unable to get into schools for several years. When i was active with the pack,, and could get onto the schools, we would usually be finished recruiting by this point and have 20÷ new cubs. My old pack had 1 new Lion. Council has not helped in this matter. In the past they would not allow units to do their own recruiting. Council i came from wanted units to do their own. But this one does not, and it has been like that for over 20 years.

So you do not want parents going camping with their kids? That's the reason why the 72 hour rule was put into place. At the Cub Scout level, it is family camping. Scout, Sea Scout, and Venturing levels, while not family oriented, as @elitts stated is suppose to be open to parents observation.

Whatever they are registered on the charter as is the award they work on.

Worse threat I have encountered involved an extension for Eagle. Long story short, Life Scout majorly screwed where he was kicked off the benefitting organization's property, and professionals had to intervene ASAP to fix the mess he caused. This was a week or two before his birthday. Scout wanted an extension to do a second project. Troop said he would have to petition National for an extension. And all hell broke lose with mom. She belligerently threatened to go to the media, get outside organization involved, and sue everyone: SM, CO, Council and National, if the extension was not granted.

Good luck with finding a new CO. And no you are not alone. Besides the UMC churches, i know 1 church has given their units either until the end if the school year (mid june) or charter (next month) before they need to leave. The District Commissior and unit leaders have approached 2 possible COs, one of them wanting Scouting about 2-3 years ago. Both said no. I So no, you are not alone.

I had a friend who was a web designer and owned his own company. Had a fortune 500 company or two as clients. He did one council's webpage for free, and it was one of the most user friendly websites. Then National mandated a set format and program for all council websites. And here we are today: Websites that suck. Agree we got to get back to the outdoors. "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." We cannot be all things to everyone. Sadly that is partially true in my neck of the woods. Our professional staff is down, but instead of focusing on helping existing units survive, the pros are being told to start new units and get membership up EVEN THOUGH NATIONAL HAS REPORTED LOSSES FOR THE NEXT 2-3 YEARS! (caps for emphasis). My DE is being told to start 10 NEW units, yet in one town alone you have 4 UMC units that are concerned what is going to happen after March, and one CO that is kicking their units out at the end of the charter year and are desperate to find a home. Yet the DE is not involved. District Commissioner has already tried 2 organizations and they both said NO. As for the new type of volunteer, no the council wants "yes men." Folks who question council do not get their names past the Nominating committee.

We all hope @CynicalScouter is doing well.

This one is extremely tricky. I have in deed taken a Scout to the hospital by myself, with the express approval of the professional running the camp. (emphasis). One of our camp staffers got injured and I had to rush him to the ER. That situation was OK, but a week later an 18 year old staffer had an accident and again I had to take him to the ER. This time there was complications. Scouter went into shock in my car. Having a second person would have been extremely helpful. But I know it can be a challenge. Last time I had to transport a Scout to the ER, I took another Scout with me. I know that can be troublesome, but thankfully it was my son.

Gotcha. Thst is where the no one on one rule kicks in.

I beleive @elitts is refering to adults using the buddy system at summer camp, not the issue of having 2 adults in camp. Since the 72 hours rule has been in place, I know of NO camp that has violated it. And prior to that, when 2 adults needed to be at camp one being registered and over 21, I know of only 1 camp that allowed a troop to attend with only 1 adult. Some emegency happened to the second adult a few days before they arrived, and teh camp assigned an adult Staffer to be the 2nd Scouter. He stayed with them in their campsite, ate with them with meals, and was essentially an ASM to them that week.

I know families who are in the exact predicament. Glad oldest has aged out as I do not think I would be able to afford his registration, even at the reduced adult rate, this year. This will kill Cub Scouts and trickle down to Scouts.

Also fewer and fewer HS promote the trades. If anything, the HSs team up with local community colleges to have classes on welding, auto mechanics, etc.

Have them check their library to see if anyone on staff is a notary. They usually will notorize for free.

My concern with mergers is that council customer service will be worse than it is. And right now it is 99% non existant. And .5% of the involvement is telling volunteers we can't do things, i.e. have a clean up day to get camp ready, doing our own roundups, etc.

From what i am seeing, most units are not concerned with the bankruptcy. They are focused on their units.

Is that @emb021 website?

In one case i am familiar with, the accused was found innocent by the law enforcement investigators, but still remained in the IVF. So even if innocent, your nsme can still be in it.

I got essentially the same message last nite as @5thGenTexan did, except with my council specific info. BUT from keeping up here, I know that we are no where close to the end. Winston Churchill said it best. "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

At the moment, NO I am not struggling with it. Ticked off and want heads to roll, YES, but not struggling with my decision to continue on. NOW, I will be withdrawing from all district committees, activities, etc and focusing on my Scouts. My Scouts need me, now more than ever. We are an extremely small troop, with no feeder pack. While we are not struggling now, we will in the future as our Scouts age out. Our committee and ASM corps are the bare minimums. In fact two ASMs became MCs to get the required numbers. And we will lose Scouters as their Scouts age out. Again my focus is my Scouts. As far as council as the council goes, my district has been neglected for so long many could care less about the council. When the word gets out on the camps to be sold, I have been told several units will have absolutely nothing to do with the council ever again: no attendance at district or council events, no FOS, no sales, no going to the remaining council camps, nothing. Just use them to process the charter and Eagle Applications. They will even go tot out of council stores to buy awards. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. 🤣

Mods, if this is the wrong place for this, please feel free to move it to the appropriate thread. @CynicalScouter, @Eagle1993and everyone else posting updated information and commentary on the bankruptcy: THANK YOU! I just got back from a meeting where the bankruptcy, selling of camps, and membership was the topic of conversation. Not only was I not surprised by anything that was said because It has been said here, I ended up telling them a few things they did not know, specifically the presser today. It's sad when I get accurate and reliable information faster here than from my own council.

Yes it can destroy the innocent. I know someone who was cleared of any wrongdoing, but is still in the IVF. And it did affect her reputation in the community. Yep know another individual in the IVF because he questioned the SE on some issues. So yes, not everyone in the IVF is in it for CSA, nor guilty if accused of CSA.

Is this being recorded for those of us at work and cannot watch? And if you can provide a link, I'd appreciate it. Not that I do not trust the commentary you folks provide, but I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth. Plus add my own. One thing I am getting from the commentary is utter disbelief.

@CynicalScouter, I think my comment went over your head, so I will clarify. You stated there were 3 options specifically: And you would be : My comment is that the Patrol Method circa 1910 to 2012 is already dead. Option 1 is not acceptable. Option 2, Modifying the Patrol Method occurred from 2012 to 2018, and scout on Scout abuse occurred. Patrols camping on their own ended in 2012 and were only allowed day activities up until 2018. IMHO modification does not necessarily mean splitting the program, as that was tried once in the 1950s and did not work (Explorer Scouts anyone?) Option 3, End the Patrol Method did occur in 2018 as BSA now requires 2 registered adults over 21 at all activities. So my comment reflected that Option 3 is the current status, yet apparently problems are still occurring. The only possible optionis the complete dissolution of the BSA. Is that what you are advocating for? On a different note, with the rise of female adults abusing youth, specifically the two recent cases of teachers abusing students in the news, among others, has anyone at National thought about revising the TP policy requiring 1 male over 21 years whenever boys are present?