Eagle94-A1

We had 2 council family camp outs: 1 at the summer camp and 1 at the old summer camp. The summer camp is centrally located in the council, has the best and modern facilities of the council's camps, but is in the middle of no where. With the exception of 1 city about 40 minutes away, it takes about 1.5 - 2.5 hours to get to it from major population areas. Cub attendance was no no greater than 100 at it's height. The old summer camp, which the council has neglected and is taken care of by volunteers, while on the western edge of the council, was within 45 minutes of 3 small cities in the council. That one at it's height had over 680 attend. One of the highlights is that it is the only council camp that can have Cubs do boating activities. I have read that some councils will only approve their council run camps for Cub Scout camping. I do hope that won't be the case if the camps are sold. I have a feeling that some packs will continue to use their local OA lodge's "Where to Go Camping" books as an approval list of camps for Cubs to use since it is published by the council. I know my council has never had an official Cub Scout Camping list. Part of that stemmed from folks on the council camping committee saying, "Cubs don't need to camp."

I was told it was 180 mile radii or 360 mile circles. Basically 1 Scout camp within a 3 hour drive. Want to see Local councils and Scouting lose support even faster than now? Sell camps. Want to lose Cub Scouts because the Scout camps are too far away for families? Sell Camps (unless councils are willing to approve more camps besides their own for Cubs to use). I say this because my council has stated they will be selling 2 camps. Folks are ticked off and vowing to go elsewhere to buy their Scouting supplies and attend summer camp as a result. As for Cub Families, I have heard complaints about being too far when the camp is 1.5 hours away. 3 hours is going to be no gos for many.

I do not know why anyone is surprised that TK wants Chapter 7. He has stated this from the get go. Now I will give the devil his due, TK does represent his clients better than the other lawyers in this case.. While I disagree with him and do not like his position, I due respect his diligence in representing his clients.

Also one major drawback: mandatory months-long popcorn, and possibly other, sales with little money going to units. While some councils do provide great customer service, others do not. I do not know of any units in my old district's territory that do popcorn sales as we receive negligible support from the council. In fact more contact is done with the office staff than professional staff. As for discount cards, last time those were available, NONE of the vendors were in our area. Kinda hard to sell when nothing on the card is available. Another drawback is lack of continuity. How many GSUSA troops are 10, 20. 50, 75, 100 years old? How many GSUSA volunteers have been around 5, 10, 20, 40+ years?

Last i heard, my LC thinks it is a done deal. They plan to sell the camps needed to meet their obligation, and continue on.

I do not know the details of the law, but my Fingerprinting MBC and CSI guru told something like that. Basically the fingerprints can only be checked against current criminal records, and not against active cases.

1. Pray, you will need it. Scouting is having a very challenging time, and some professionals are not willing to adapt. My current council is getting rid of my District Commissioner, because he is not "effective" serving units as we are not growing in membership and units. We are in the middle of bankruptcy, COs abandoning the program, and a pandemic. Need to focus on existing units that are in trouble, and not starting new units. 2. Listen to your unit leaders. Use those counseling skills learned in WB. 3. Multiply yourself by getting good UCs to help you. 4. DO NOT USE UNIT LEADERS AS UCs AS WELL. Good luck.

First and foremost, in the BSA alcohol is forbidden. Show up to a BSA event with it, and I will report you. Been there, done that. Ticked off folks as a result. But you go to international Scouting events, including WSJs, and alcohol is served. When I first arrived at Kingsdown Scout Camp in the UK, the staff were having a BBQ with beer being served. At a WB reunion at the camp, the group went to the local pub in uniform. The Belgium Scouter whose troop I looked after when they got stranded thanked my with 2 cases of Belgian beer that were supposed to go to his brother.

At the Cub level, cutting corners of the Whittling Chip is not allowed. ANY violation results in revocation per page 72 of BALOO syllabus.

Stupid question, but here it goes: what does the charter fee cover? I have been told it covers the CO.

The biggest challenges IMHO are the promises national and local councils made to CO, and National made to local councils: that they would be protected. The next biggest is BSA's model: the charter. BSA made promises to both local councils and COs to protect them. That was one of the pitches to prospective COs for starting new units back in the day. COs felt they were protected from such lawsuits because they were told they would be, and now they are finding out otherwise. Ditto for the councils. As for the charter concept, while while it has been likened to franchisee agreements, do the parent companies get to decide who the executives running the franchise are? Every professional must be "commissioned" by national. They must go through mandated training to get their commission, and go through mandated training to get promoted. Also national selects the group of candidates for SE and other management positions. That is a lot of control of a local council IMHO.

My thoughts. 1. While I want the plan to be approved, i have major reservations about the voting. A. I want only actual, vetted victims to be allowed to vote. I have not watched, nor read the TK deposition (if anyone has a link to the transcript i would appreciate it), but from what i am gathering, and from questionable examples in previous posts there appears to be fraud going on. I hope those committing it are punished to the fullest extent of the law and fines go towards victims. B. The coercion some firms are applying to their clients to vote a certain way is also appalling, and i hope any professional and legal sanctions are applied. C. The lack of service some firms are providing their clients is appalling. I hope there are ways to void contracts so they cannot get paid for services they did not provide. Further I hope professional and legal sanctions occur, with the financial penalties going to victims that hired them, but did not provide services to. 2. I hope that victims can go after their perps.

Sadly many OA lodges are now adult run & Adults ignore the youth. I remember when The Lodge Advisor and other adults wanted to remove the honor borders on the lodge flaps: red for Ordeal, gold for Brotherhood and silver for Vigil. Because it was in the lodge's by-laws, the lodge membership had to vote for it. IT WAS OVERWHELMINGLY DISAPPROVED (major emphasis. Hazarding a guess 98% were against removing the honor borders as I did not see many hands raised for it.). When the Lodge Advisor stated it is going to happen anyway, there was a major protest. Arrowmen started turning their OA sashes inside-out in protest. When the LA angrily said it going to happen whether we like it or not, and folks needed to wear their sashes properly or take them off, more than 3/4ths took them off in protest. IMHO the lodge has not been the same ever since. And apparently that motion came down from the national OA committee, which as noted has less than a handful of youth on it.

I agree. I do not believe national will listen based upon their history of ignoring volunteers. Anyone remember the 2015 Eagle Palm Survey they sent out? 18% were Against and 76% Strongly Against "Instapalms," yet they did it anyway. And there are other polls, where the results were never posted. Considering the National OA Committee is majority adult, IMHO OA is not a youth run organization. I can't remember what the big controversy was a few years back as old age is getting to me. But I do remember the National OA committee had 60+ members on it ( I want to say 63, but it may have been 66, again old age)and only the National Chief, National Vice Chief, and 1 other youth sat on that committee. The National Vice Chief at the time was from my lodge, and he refused to talk about the issue when asked. From the body language, tone of voice, and gestures made when asked, he seem ticked off every time the topic came up.

Yes. I consider both of them Lawful Good Paladins.

The problem these two Eagles have is not in Scouting, but outside of it. Now that YP applies to Scouters outside of the scouting activities, they cannot have one-on-one contact at school, carpooling to school, study sessions, gaming, and hanging out. Both know why YP exists: to protect both the youth and adults.

Mods, I am placing this topic in Politics because I fear that it may blow up. THAT IS NOT MY INTENT ( emphasis). If you feel this is more appropriate in General Discussion, please feel free to move it over there. The topic of 18-20 year olds and Youth Protection came up at an Eagle BOR tonite. Long story short, The 18 year old Eagle was asked if he would continue on as an Assistant Scoutmaster. He replied he would not serve as an ASM because he would not be able to comply with the YP rules as they apply to non-Scouting events because he is still a high school junior and is in regular one-on-one contact with Scouts outside of Scouting as a result. And under the current YP rules, no one-on-one contact is allowed at all, inside or outside of Scouting. He said he would rather give up Scouting than his friends. One of the members of the EBOR also sat on my son's EBOR. I found out that my son was asked the same thing, and also responded the same way: he would rather give up Scouting than give up his friends. Has anyone else have this happen. I know Mike Johnson said the majority of YP violations is "Youth on Youth," but have there been any data shown? All of us on the EBOR agree that it is a shame that our best examples are leaving us.

Add me to the list. I want the alleged perps to have a fair trial, and if guilty, incarcerated . But remember some victims are against using their POCs to go after abusers. There was a discussion on this topic a few months back.

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE NEWEST VERSION OF THAT BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and yes I am screaming in joy at ya ) Last time I taught ITOLS, between my 1967 BSA Fieldbook and the 1950 or 60s version of the book you posted ( which was still THE book in use), these were the resources I used for wood tools.

I do have a few questions regarding a BSA only Chapter 11, in order of importance. 1. Since part of the charter fee every CO paid to national to have a unit over the years was for insurance, how will COs go about submitting claims if they are sued in a post BSA only Chapter 11? I know many UMC orgs submitted holding claims, but what about the others? Will this come out of the Future Claimants Fund? Will Insurance companies have to pay out additional funds? Or will the charter orgs be out of luck and completely thrown under the bus by BSA? 2. Since part of the charter fee local council's paid to national to have a council charter was for insurance, How will councils go about submitting claims if they are sued in a post BSA only Chapter 11? If Council did not submit holding claims like the UMC did, are they out of luck? I think those two questions are part of why this is an absolute mess. COs have been told since before I became a Cub they were protected. Now it seems as if National is throwing them under the bus. Ditto with councils.

I hope this happens, but I have a gut feeling it won't. Councils are worried about their own survival, and many are focused on their own problems, and either cannot, or do not, want to see the big picture. But I could be wrong. Anyone hear of merger talks taking place next month?

That may have been the official year of integration, but some councils took longer unoffically. One council I have been in did not integrate until the 1980s. While the segregated districts "merged," they still kept doing their own events. Agree. we are not responsible for the past. We need to focus on today, and prepare our youth for the future. While we need to be cognizant of the past and how it affects today, we need to focus on solving the issues of today.

I need to clarify, my last comment was regarding online MBs, BORs, everyone getting Eagle etc. Not DEI. I admit I am middle of the road when it comes to DEI. I know our country's past, but I also know the strides we have made. Do we still need improvement? Absolutely. Without growth you die. That is why I like the focus on the Scout Oath and Law. If we were to live by the Scout Oath and Law, I do not believe the challenges we are seeing would exist. Sadly not everyone in uniform is a true Scout.

I am a lifer. Started as a Cub, earned Eagle and aged out. Was a Sea Scout for a bit while serving as an ASM. Not only did i not leave the movement, but I also worked for it. In my professional opinion, coming from both my training as an educator and experience working with youth for over 25 years the program had deteriorated. Instead of quality, folks want quantity. Youth want challenges. Youth need to make mistakes and learn the hard way, albeit in a safe environment. Youth need responsibilities. This is what makes them grow and allows them to make ethical decisions. How do we help them if we do everything for them, and give them everything?

Do any legacy units use their original numbers?