Eagle94-A1

Another aspect of that was to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the community. BSA as a nascent organization had many competitors. The belief was that by partnering with local, established organizations to charter troops, they would have some credibility and legitimacy over the competitors. One reason why GSUSA did not use the CO model was that they were piggybacking on BSA's name. The only serious competitor to GSUSA was Campfire Girls. One of the reasons why West was adamant about GSUSA changing their name to Girl Guides was because he did not want confusion. My how times have changed At least in the units I was in that I did not know anyone prior to joining, I was being vetted. I had references checked, AND in one case a background check done, prior to my application being submitted to council for BSA's background check. Even with the one hands off unit I was with, the CC or CM was checking references.

Yep. BSA has always said as long as I can remember that they got your back. Now we are learning otherwise

Questions. 1. Is it a volunteer or a professional? 2. Are they a voting member of the Council and District?

If you mandate, you will lose volunteers and members. Do we need anymore bad publicity and membership loses. Also there is no panacea for COVID. Consulting with physcians AND doing your own, legitimate research ( medlineplus.gov for general info; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ for the primary sources) Research is ongoing on vaccines. And there are questions about the efficacy of them. Google Israel and COVID if you do not believe me. And before anyone says I am an antivaxer, not only has everyone in my immediate family been vaccinated, but also my wife is now staffing on the COVID floor at her hospital. Informed decisions on this is important.

Yep, consider the source. For Kosnoff, anything but the complete dissolution of the BSA and local council will be considered a "sell out."

I know my DE was just informed that 2 COs with 5 units told their unit leaders that they will no longer charter Scouting. 1 CO wants them gone completely, and will not even do a usage agreement.

Pretty much spot on. I know I made some comments at roundtable when the topic came up, and everyone, including the DE, was listening. At a district meeting with council folks in attendance who signed the NDA, I estimated how much my council will owe, based upon what I have gleamed here. Their eyes expressed shock that I knew as much as I did.

UNDERSTATEMENT! Don't get me started on this. You really see the difference when it comes to retention at the Scouts BSA level.

I cannot say anything about Lions, but from working with my 3 boys from Tigers, it is extremely exhausting for adults. The Den Leader is the toughest volunteer position, bar none. I was a denleader for 6 years and was burnt out on Cubs. I have been involved with troop 7 years now, and no burn out yet. Prior to Oldest becoming a Tiger, I volunteered with troops, OA, and the district for 9 years, and no burn out. As for the Scouts, they are ready and chomping at the bit to Cross Over. 4th grade is when the transition to Scouts begins, at least according to the old BSA Literature as I am told that is no longer the case with the current literature, They were ready, willing and able to cross over. But I trained my Webelos DL replacements the way I was trained.

My camp growing up had a very good relationship with the 4th Marine Division and the National Guard. I remember Shooting Sports had Marines running the ranges, and our health lodge was staffed by either Navy corpsman or NG medics. Bet it helps having the CG on your executive board.

It's 12 Steps And here is a link from SCOUTING WIRE. Some of the steps utilized Commissioner Corps, but if you don't have an active one, you gotta do it yourself. Now I remember why I thought it was 10, steps 11 and 12 I normally did not do. Usually my District Commissioner did those. That's because I did get reprimanded for going to the meetings and presenting the charter to my first pack, which was chartered by my church's Knights of Columbus Council. When I did show up to help out, it was a CO's member, and not as a Scouter. https://scoutingwire.org/marketing-and-membership-hub/new-unit-development/the-new-unit-organization-process/ This document looks like it has the 12 steps in it, and more. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/522-025-Unit-Roadmap-Final.pdf

Yes, the whole time. As @InquisitiveScouter said, they are on call the entire time. And may you never have to get up at 1:30 in a thunderstorm doing a lost camper drill because 2 nuckleheads decided to sneak back to the man camp.

You would be surprised. Some folks think that what they did 15, 20 years ago would affect them still.

At least in my case the unit committees checked the references. In one case, they even did a background check, bu the SM was a LEO and had access to that info. Only 3 units did not check my references: the troop I grew up in, the troop my older two sons were in, and my current troop. BUT then again, I personally knew everyone in the troop, and used them as the references. Actually the unit that did the background check on me was chartered by my Catholic Church. I showed up to a meeting the second week in town. Before they turned in the app to council, the SM checked me out.

COs were responsible for checking references. BSA got into the criminal background checks for YPY in the 90s or 2000s.

Sounds like my SE, in the 18.5 months I was in, 12 DEs (including myself), a FD and a Finance Director quit. My successor left within 6 months of being hired. One group of volunteers got together outside of Scouting and celebrated with champagne the news he was leaving. Would a former DE actually creating 4 new units count for you? Starting a new unit following all of the 10 or 12 steps ( sorry old age is getting to me) is a long, stressful process. Most of the time if you follow the process step by step, your units are successful, but sometimes there is failure. One pack lasted about 9 months before folding. Long story short, because they were chartered by a Catholic school, a lot of folks who wanted to start a new pack backed out of Scouting all together. . Heavy anti-Catholic bias where I live. In fact the person who was supposed to be the CM of the new pack came to my apartment, and cursed me out stating he would never join an organization that allows Catholics in it. Another family stepped up to the plate and did they best to get it up and running. But when the family that was the driving force moved due to a job, the pack went under. The other pack I started was extremely successful for about 10+ years. It was in an area not served by any other units, and served 2 communities. When the 5th graders were ready to become Boy Scouts, the parents started a new troop. The pack died when a DE decided to start a new pack in one of the communities served by the original pack. that split youth and adults and both packs folded with 2 years after the second pack was started. The troop I started died shortly there after. In all honesty the troop was easy to start since everything was in pretty much in place. The second troop was near and dear to my heart. It was a SCOUTREACH troop. Those kids needed Scouting, and they were successful. I lucked out in that I had one gungho ASM, who eventually became SM of that troop. In later years, he ended up being the SM to 4 SCOUTREACH troops. But that burnt him out. And when he burnt out, nobody was willing to step up in any of the units. The unit I started, and 3 other SCOUTREACH troops died. I also spent a lot of time "restarting" units. But that is a different story.

Forgot about the timing and procedure of the membership surveys. Councils had to have all 3 members of the key three give a presentation, and only those at the presentation could take the survey. As for timing, announced hours before many were leaving for Jamboree, and the limited time frame for the polls included the time jamboree was going on. Also LDS folks in western region did not have their surveys counted.

There is A LOT of anecdotal evidence the decision was made long before it was anounced, i.e. the selection of an Exploring/Venturing executive for CSE (a first), comments to new DEs about radical membership changes ahead, gender neutral language for Cub Scout and "Scouts" sections of youth application months prior to announcement, ad nauseum.

Could you please post where I can find that info, because I cannot find anything on MEMBERS (emphasis) results. I do know yhe non-member polls are similar to what you posted, if not identical.

@vol_scouter, i am a former professional. I can tell you there are ways to influence who is selected onto different boards. I got in trouble for encouraging my nominating committee to go after the best people for the jobs instead of having them select "yes men." I know folks who were removed from EBs because the questioned the recommendations of the SE. One person was relieved mid term. As for surveys, they are a joke. You made a comment how they are biased towards the predetermined decision. Remember the 2015 Instapalm survey? 94% either disagreed (18%) or strongly disagreed (76%) with instapalms, yet they went ahead anyway. And i am still waiting on the results of the members' survey on girls in scouting to be published. All i keep seeing are the nonmember results.

My comments in Red. Only 60 hours?!?!?!?! When I was a DE, 60 hours was a light week. Longest weeks were approx. 114, with me being on call another 30 hours. And in reality DEs are on call 24/7. Best wedding gift I got was a card from my volunteers saying they would not call me between the hours of 10PM and 6AM unless it was an absolute emergency. Actually I worked to make the Scouts and Programs successful. Helping the adults was gravy. As for receiving credit, I really did not care about that, although it was nice to be recognized as the " Boy Scout Guy." (sarcasm on) Yes I loved being yelled and cursed out at by parents and volunteers especially over matters I not only had no control over, but also agreed with the volunteers.(sarcasm off). About $40K/year!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I wish. My salary was significantly lower, and the current salary is not much higher. My council tried to hire me back a few months ago, and the starting salary was no way near near $40K. Agree. I know some of the abuse my aunt, uncle, and mother went through working in education. In fact when I was doing my education practicums and student teaching, EVERY teacher I talked to tried to tell me go into another profession; education was not worth it. Only reason they were still teaching was because they were so close to retiring with their pension. They told me some of their horror stories dealing with students, parents, and administrators.

Not all pros are in it to make money. There were many I encountered who wanted to give back to the program that gave them so much. Sadly we don't stay around too long.

Sadly the professional's focus is on the "3 M's: Membership, Manpower, and Money." And the order of importance varies from SE to SE. And Membership needs to be 'Balanced Growth" i.e. units, Cubs, Scouts, Sea Scouts, Venturing , etc. If a DE does not focus on balanced growth, even if it makes more sense to focus on existing units and increase Members and not Units, they are penalized. Even though it is easier to support an existing troop than to start a new unit. Especially in an area that cannot support more units, despite what the outdated data says.

NOT TRUE! In this interview https://dianerehm.org/shows/2019-08-20/a-moment-of-reckoning-for-the-boy-scouts-of-america-and-a-history-of-sexual-abuse . He stated he wanted the complete dissolution of the BSA and IF something like Scouting is still needed, it starts from scratch. Again the IF it is still needed, from the tone of the response, he doesn't believe Scouting is needed.

In the past I would say it is protecting everyone, but since the bankruptcy, I believe you are correct.