Eagle94-A1

To paraphrase Yoda, knots and beads matter not. If the Scouts don't know how to use something, and there is no one else to teach them, then obviously you gotta do what you gotta do.

OUTSTANDING YOUNG MAN!

I had to take one of the my scouts to the ER while at summer camp a long time ago. He was OK, but had to get a prescription filled. I didn't have the money or his insurance card with me, so I dropped him off at camp, got money and the insurance info, and headed backinto town for his 'script. It was a nasty evening, heavy rain, poor visibility, etc. On the way back to camp after picking up the prescription, someone shot out across the road in front of me, causing me to hydroplane onto the side of the road in order to avoid hitting them. They kept on going as if nothing happened. And i am stuck in the mud. After trying to get out of the mud, but before I could call a tow truck, one happened to see me and stopped. to help me out. He saw me in uniform, asked what happened, and if I was going to the local camp. He then proceeded to tow me out, and when I asked how much, "Just doing my good turn for the day. Make sure you help someone next time you see them stranded on the side of the road."

If this is going on a tangent, please bear with me as I am not trying to. I stated that my friend may be right in taking 5 years or more to get a troop to be fully independent of the adults. I know some of the issues I'm seeing with my son's troop are the following 1) SPL is not mature enough, doesn't have the self-confidence for the job, nor the respect from some of the "older" Scouts. Part of that is the fact that the troop is so young, oldest scout is 14, and we've had an influx of new scouts in the past 18 months. Troop has tripled in size since when my son joined and has 2 NSPs. WHile the SPL has the KSAs and training to do the job, and I've told him repeatedly he's doing a good job, he does get frustrated with the older Scouts not listening. He also get uncomfortable speaking and running things when the stuttering breaks out. HOWEVER, With the 3 SPLs I've seen, each one is doing a better job than the previous one. The PLs, especially the NSP my son was in, are doing their jobs better than previous PLs. Grant you, my son helps alot with his old patrol, but I and others can see the improvement. And our second NSP has made strides since they first came to the troop in Decemeber. I just hope when they get 5 new Scouts at the end of the month, it doesn't affect the dynamics too much. 2) IMHO, when you have such a young troop, and you really do not have a Troop Guide that is really capable of doing the job justice, you do need a few ASMs who understand the Patrol Method, and can work with and mentor the PL and TG without telling them what to do. Normally that would eb the SPL, ASPL, and other "older Scouts' " jobs IMHO. But I know I've had to "get involved" for lack of a better term, and counsel and mentor a PL who'se TG basically abandoned the NSP. What I found ironic was that when the TG realized he essentially abandoned his patrol, that patrol is doing quite well.

When did BALOO, OWLS, and ITOLS become online courses? And why am I not surprised the new training modules won't be available until AFTER the new program goes into effect. Thankfully the literature came out on time!

I know we have. One unit is because they need to leave Saturday nite. Hopefully their new bishop and SM will get them active once again. One unit has not replied directly, just ignores callls and emails. Heck they were suppose to run an event at camporee, and never informed anyone on the camporee staff that they were not going. I found out via a Facebook post that they were not going to camporee the monday before camporee! However one post on FB stated they believed there was too much politics on the district level, and they cannot get minimum number of Scouts for a patrol to go to council camporee. IMHO the "politics" excuse is BS as the district has bent over backwards trying to get them involved. District committee meetings and RTs are at their CO, we've asked adults form the troop to be on the district level, etc. Heck the district went so far as to let them take over another troop's campsite that the original troop put in for when campsite assingments were first made which the troop never went to the meeting. Very big deal since the original troop paid to have the water system put in the campsite, and the money used to build the shelter in the campsite was the result of a patch auctions from a deceased Scout's collection form the original troop. As for council camporee, not having a minimum of 4 Scouts to compete may be a legitimate reason. But I'm willing to bet that if the Scouts knew about council camporee well enough in advance and actually made a calendar instead of the SM doing it, they may just want to go. Sorry to rant, but you all know the frustration the unit has caused me.

Don't know about other training staff, but I ran into a bunch of AIA staffers at our section conclave. Top notch folks. So wish I was going.

I've seen special "Staff" hats used before, but those were ti ID the folks working the event, you could ask questions about the event, and enforce some of the policies ( "WHATCHA MEAN I CAN'T KEEP MY CAR IN THE CAMPSITE.?!?!?!?!"and the caps are for being screamed at.) Why can't folks realize that the program is for the Scouts and not the adults.

GBB recommended for new troops or troops getting back to the patrol method, that the Sm act mroe like the SPL to get the Scouts trained. He basically showed them how to do it. Over a 6 month period, he gradually stepped back from that role and started the Scouts onthe pacth to runnign everything. I am actyually thinking it may take 5 years to get it running. A good friend who started a troop took 5 years to get it where the boys were running things completely. Oldest son's troop is having some issues, but is boy run.

My thoughts. 1) While training is important, it is not the "be all, end all solution." I had some extremely knowledgable, extremely pro Patrol Method scouters AND SCOUTS (emphasis) teach ITOLS with me, and one of those staffers also did SM and ASM Specific. We had one gentlemen in both of those classes we taught, and 4 years later is STILL not using the Patrol Method. He also got a bunch of counseling and mentoring to boot. But " Scouting has to change with the times." 2) Someone mentioned "indoctrination" and talked about starting out in Cub Scouts. I second that as I have constantly talked about how the Patrol Method is "Organized Chaos" from the time my boys are Tigers. I've taken the Cubs to visit Boy Scout activities and see the chaos in motion. I constantly talk it up. And it's funny when a Webelos can tell you "They 're doing it wrong." 3) Mentoring by expereinced Scouters is another method that can help. We have a brand new, just Crossed Over WDL to ASM, and he sometimes has challenges adapting. I've had to have a conversation or three at various functions about how the boys need to work out the problem, don't get too stressed out about the situation, etc. I also told him to start noticing the little things, i.e. working together, dealing with each other, helping each other out, etc that slowly works it way out with a NSP. And he is catching on. 4) No troop will be perfect. Even Green Bar Bill used the SM as an SPL for training a new Scout troop or reinstilling the Patrol Method in an existing troop sections of the 3rd ed. SMHB. But he also had the troop cpmpletely boy-led in 6 months.

My council was the one that piloted the PWC at the Pamilco Sea Base. I honestly do not know all the details, except that it was a long, detailed, paperfilled process that had to go through national to be approved as a pilot program. I think it took over a year to jump through the hoops, but don't quote me on it. Now from one of the participants, when they got to do the PWC, it was a BLAST! but they had to go through a lot of classroom work before getting there.

At one point we had a fire ban in NC for so long that we had NSPs that didn't even know how to build one! And when we were able to get a firebuilding event at camporee ( It's good to have the firemarshall as an SM ) one 1 patrol was able to build the fire, cook the noodle, and tie it in a square knot! Even then, they could not do it in the 30 minutes allocated. It took them 31 minutes and they lost 10 points. My son's troop had a tradition, and the fireban stopped it. One meal HAD to be cooked over an open flame/wood coals. They stopped it for a while, and haven't started it back up yet.

We went out of council last year, the older Scouts decided on it. All of the Scout that wen loved it so much, they persuaded those who didn't go to go back this year. What the guys who have been to the local council and the OOC camps liked were the nite time activities, bikes allowed for travelling, BMX track, skateboard area, and the waterslide. All the guys who have only been ot the OOC camp loved the waterslide and BMX tracks. Now what I look for is a camp that doesn't focus solely on MBs. One ASM looks for a camp with poor wireless reception so work wont try an call him in on The other ASM last year wanted to go to a camp far enough away where he could delegate some duties to his associate pastor. Alas, he lost out as camp is 50 minutes away.

I still use it on occasion. i have a Whisperlite Int. so I'll burn anything.

We've been using RTs fand the suggestes matrials from national about the new program since January. Biggest complaint is that folks wanted the materials, at least the leaders' info, 2-3 months ago so they could plan the upcoming year. Especially the district activities that take a year to plan.

A bit of a spin off, but let's have some fun. Anyone read today's (5-6-15) Bryon On Scouting Blog and the ban on water guns unless you are shooting at non living targets and wearing eye protection? Sorry, but in my neck of the woods, water guns are used to keep Cub cooled down at day camp, and help out tremendously. And even with the water guns and other water cooling devices, we still had folks going home early due to heat exhaustion. Your thoughts?

Council camporee was this past weekend, and Wilderness Survival was the theme. Only complaints I heard were A) need more time to build shelters B) need to make sure other patrols do not move the geocaches to get to the first aid event, and C) want more time on the tomahawk toss range. Other than those complaints everyone had a blast.

He was probably to busy driving the Germans nuts on the continent. I read somewhere that just the rumor of him coming to the continent drove German counterintelligence nuts. I think there was a very good reason he was on the Operation Sea Lion hit list in WWII.

Stosh, Yes I'm referring to adult volunteers. Because in my neck of the woods, camporees are inter-patrol competitions and, at least from what I've seen, patrols need every member, or former member in my son's case this weekend, that is available to compete. Which is why I am for adults running camporee events; THE CAMPOREE IS FOR THEM! (emphasis) But I can see youth running events. Heck the OA runs the trading post at our district camporee, and at council camporee one chapter was running the tomahawk throwing event. Although those folks were the "G.A.S.ers" ( Gray Area Scouters age 18-20). Now our Webeloree has troops running individual events for the Webelos, so I know the youth are capable of doing the job. Now I do think the organizers should plan events with the youths' input, making the youth WANT (emphasis) to do them. I remember one year the camporee chief decided to turn the camporee into a MB weekend. VERY poor attendance as the Scouts wanted competition as opposed to classes. Thankfully the other adults that loved the MB weekend haven't been put in charge. As for SPL's attending RTs, I'm cool with that. Heck my son and 1 other youth were the only SPLs at a summer camp leaders' meeting that specifically stated the SPLs should attend. He offered input and was about to raise some 'cane when they were trying to limit archery to 13+ when the guidebook didn't have that age limit. Yep he and others in the troop want to be Robin Hood. I'd even go further. I think the OA Chapter Chief should attend district committee meetings. We had that going briefly, but one meeting turned nasty and the OA chief and his dad said "Never again." And no chapter chief has been back since. Again I agree with you that the district needs to listen. think they went overboard saying that you should run the event next year. And I admit I mixed Mozart's post with yours. His patrol being threatened with disqualification is appalling. In retrospect, I think my post may have been misinterpreted. Let me try again, as this is my philosophy running events. 1) I ALWAYS want to hear what the scouts think about activities. i want to know what they liked, what they didn't like, and what they would like to do. If we do not do what the Scouts want, then why will they come? 2) If there are problems I want to know about them ASAP. If I can fix the problem then and there, I am going to. Best example is when I didn't plan on Webelos fishing, and there was a mutiny. We were able to solve that that day. But sometimes a problem needs to be corrected for the next year. Example of that was the idea for 'Citizenship Class" where the Cubs practiced flag etiquette in preparation for doing the flag ceremonies. And sometimes folks need to think outside the box. Best one of that was a camporee chief who had arranged a Blackhawk from Fort Bragg to show up. 3) Biggest problem I've encountered is having enough staff to run events and make them good. I hate having folks have to wait for event to be done, or worse not having enough events due to staffing.More staffing equats to more opportunties for the Scouts. And it means less stress on the adults running the events.

Mozart, if the elecion is done properly, it's not a popularity contest. I too have seen worthy youth get not get elected. I saw a lot more of it under the old election rules. Heck I got elected on the third go. Part of the problem IMHO is that I am seeing more and more folks seeing it as a check off item to Eagle, and not as being selected as an Honor Camper as the OA is suppose to be, a Honor Camper society. I know I had one SM PO'd at me and the OA election team when it was discussed what being in the OA really ment. Half of those eligible decided to back out before the vote. SM said we shouldn't have said anything and just let them get elected without them knowing what we do.

Mash, Boating was restricted to district/council events which required either a NCS certified Aquatics Director, or an NCS certfied CS Aquatics Supervisor. Now, According to the Guide to Safe Scouting, page 24, "Cub Scout activities afloat are limited to council, district, pack, or den events that do not include moving water or float trips (expeditions). Safety Afloat standards apply to the use of canoes, kayaks, rowboats, rafts, floating tubes, sailboats, motorboats (including waterskiing), and other small craft, but do not apply to transportation on large commercial vessels such as ferries and cruise ships." What I find hillarious is that the second link's "AGE-APPROPRIATE GUIDELINES FOR SCOUTING ACTIVITIES" still states that boating activities are for the district/ council level only still. Guess they need to update the 2015 Age Appropriate Guidelines again.

You reminded me of a lodge I ran into at the 1994 NOAC. The Lodge straddled the GA-FL border and they went local. Depending upon which side of the border the ceremonialist lived on, he was either Creek (GA) or Seminole (FL)

As someone who has organized district level events, as well as complained about them too, I will say the following. 1) The Scouts need to be listened to as THEY ARE OUR CUSTOMERS! (EMPHASIS, OK may be a little shouting ) Telling htem to shut up or be DQed is outright wrong, and telling them to run the event next year going overboard a bit. 2) In addition to complaints, I suggest ways to improve the event be offered with the complaint. Sometimes people need others to think outside the box. I know someof the events I ran had problems, and I loved it when others gave me ideas to improve. 3) IF possible, offer to volunteer. I know it's not always possible. heck I've had to step back a lot due to family and/or unit issues. But in my expereince, a lack of volunteers is usually the cause of 99.99999% of the problems.

National OA is promoting lodges to look at local nations, whether current or historical, and to go local. Some lodges have been doing it for years,others are now starting to. I'm fortunate in that my home lodge growing up, and local lodge currently, have good relations with local Nations, and are working to make it more local specific. But from first hand experiencing it is a tough sell. Research can be a pain, but the internet has definitely made it a heck of a lot easier to access drawings and descriptions from the colonial period, and photos from Western Expansion period. I remember spending way to much time in archives back in the day. But there are times when you do need to go to them. So research is one reason for making a switch to local Native American nations is a tough sell. Another reason for the tough sell to convert is what I call "Hollywood factor." Even today there are stereotypes on what a native American should look like based upon the old westerns. heck even non-Plains Native Americans got into it. I have postcards date the 1950s, 60s, and 70s from such places a Cherokee NC and upper NY state where the Cherokee or Iroquois are dressed up as Plains Indians. I know my chapter chief wants to spend our regalia budget on going local, but we do not know how tough a sell we will be having at the next chapter meeting. A third reason for the tough sell is making authentic local regalia can not only be expensive, but time consuming, It's easier and cheaper to repair or replace individual regalia items than to essentially start all over. I spent over 3 years beginning through the process and it was never finished. Part of it was lack of time and money. Part of it was lack of interest. and part of it was the fact that some people had a stereotypical view, and didn't want to change. A fourth reason I've encountered is resistance form the local nations. As already mentioned, while some OA members and lodges do it correctly. unfortunately more do it incorrectly. Heck my lodge growing up had to disband the dance team at one point because they were doing so much stupid stuff, there were complaints from the local nation. We spent a lot of time developing a relationship with them, and took their concerns seriously. it took about 5 or 6 years to get a team restarted, and the Houma did have some reservations about helping us. It worked out very well long term.

Mozart, You'd be surprised at what councils allow and how BSA publications contradict each other. Look at the Guide to Safe Scouting. There is no mention of Cubs being able to do archery. Only that : "Archery, and Knife and Tomahawk Throwing These are approved activities for Boy Scouts and Venturers following the Sweet 16 of BSA Safety." So some lawyer could probably argue that Archery shouldn't be done by Cub Scouts at all since there is no mention of Cubs being allowed to do archery in. BUT as we all know, there is an Archery Belt Loop that will be around for approximately 3 more weeks. Plus it's taught at CS NCS programs as a viable activity. PLUS the current 2015 printing of the Shooting Sports Manual states Archery can be done at the Cub Level. So another lawyer could coutner claim it is allowed. As for tomahawks, my Cubs were doing it this weekend at a council event. I didn't have a May 1, 2015 copy of the G2SS available, so I thought that too changed. I know my Middle son ticked off my Oldest son's entire troop. He got 4/5 tomahawks on the target, with 2 bulls eyes, and would have gotten the 5th one in the target if he did't try and do a "Robin Hood." His 5th throw hit the handle of one of the bull's eyes and bounced off. He scored more points than the three patrols combined. Youngest and Oldest didn't do too shabby either. Both got 3/5 in the target, and Oldest did have a bull's eye. Ok, gotta find directions to make a tomahawk target for the backyard. I now have 2 tomahawks to throw, and the kids told me they'd rather throw tomahawks than go fishing!