shortridge

(Sorry about the length.) I had a post done earlier, but my computer ate it. Anyway, in the interim, Stosh said much of what I was going to say. To re-emphasize, the best way for your PL to lead is through example - by becoming a master of skills and holding his authority by virtue of knowledge and ability, not from simply having a patch on his sleeve. As far as "things to say," it really does depend on the specific group of boys. You have to find out why they're behaving this way in order to "fix them." Is there a ringleader who really wants to be in charge himself? The PL and SPL can pull him aside and have a heart-to-heart, laying it on the table. Are they bored with the "basic" skills and want to do something cool - maybe skiing or survival? Your youth leadership team can help them map out a plan to master the skills to get to that point. Since this bunch of boys has been together from Cubs, I'd also talk with their former den leaders, and see if this type of behavior has manifested itself before. If they've been like this from Tigers on, with one or two serious Scouts and the rest cracking up, it's going to be a much tougher nut to crack. Your PL also has a very tough road ahead personally. If he hasn't already, he's about to learn a very tough lesson - that a group will not respect empty threats. If he's gone to the "I'm quitting" well, and they called his bluff, they're not going to take his future pronouncements seriously. Small-group dynamics are a challenge. Small groups of boys at this age could take a master's in psychology to figure out! Your SPL can boost the PL's spirits by reminding him that if he can work through this and come out on top, every other job he holds in Scouting is going to be a piece of cake. Beavah has a good point. Dispersing the New Scout Patrol into "regular" patrols may be an option to look at. It's the Scouting equivalent of the teacher making the classroom troublemakers sit in separate rows. If that's not an option you want to pursue, one way to motivate them is through group challenges - pitting the patrols against each other in a very tough, high-stakes skills competition. Perhaps if they know they're going to be matched against the older Scouts in a contest with real bragging rights or awards, they'll step up to the plate.

Agree with kenk. It sounds like this patrol needs an older Scout mentor to help them along. If there's no Guide, the SPL should appoint one, or take on the role himself. Even just taking a seat behind the PL at a patrol meeting, silently observing, can be a big boost - both in the PL's confidence and in the response from the patrol members. The older Scout should resist the temptation to rip into the patrol for failing to do its job, however. That will only breed resistance and undermine the PL. A simple "Geez, guys, aren't you ready yet? How many weeks have you been getting ready?" from a respected boy can do wonders. If the PL is on the verge of tears, he also needs some encouragement and serious bucking up. He may just need some coaching on the right phrases to say when confronted with recalcitrant Scouts.

Your troop doesn't need to have any counselors - that's the district advancement team's role. Contact the DAC for a list of counselors and your Scouts should be set. Best of luck!

It's worth noting that taking a Red Cross first aid course won't satisfy all the requirements for First Aid Merit Badge. Even if all the skills are demonstrated properly, there's still the requirements to build a first aid kit for your home and to teach another Scout a skill. If I were a First Aid counselor, and a Scout came to me with an ARC certification card, I'd say, "Great! We ought to be able to knock off these requirements in a quarter of the time, because you know your stuff. Now, what does triage mean?"

Interesting. I use Gatorade bottles, myself. I'll have to do a weight comparison with the Aquafina bottles.

A correction. "Blue cards," as they are commonly known, are NOT required to complete merit badges. They may be the method in your unit or council, but they're not a universal thing. Some summer camps print out advancement reports rather than using blue cards, showing which requirements the Scout completed. Some units don't use blue cards at all. A Scout can certainly complete requirements without the counselor "teaching" him. There's nothing stopping anyone from taking a first aid course. However, he must then demonstrate those skills to the counselor's satisfaction. If you're going to be the new Scoutmaster, you need to get yourself to training and a few Roundtables ASAP. That'll help you understand how things are done in your council.

While it certainly would be easier, from a continuity and communications standpoint, to have the same adult partner every time, saying "no" to alternating partners could drive away two-household families where the parents share custody or have a co-parenting arrangement. My advice: Be as flexible as possible, get both parentts' contact information, send out reminder e-mails to everyone you can, and have fun! Tigers are a great age.

Crossramwedge wrote: "Anyway we have just determined that his POR is not valid. He was using being a Asst. Patrol leader as his POR. (The Patrol leader gets to pick his Asst. Patrol leader) This position is not a POR to be counted for Life or Star for that matter." So who signed off on that requirement in his handbook?

sailingpj, I don't mean to get into an argument, but that's not correct. Sea Scouting is one of the branches of Venturing. A ship is a simply a crew with different lingo. Quoting just one line from the official seascout.org Web site: "Sea Scouts, being members of the Venturing program, are encouraged to work towards the Silver Award in addition to the highest and most prestigious award in Sea Scouting, the Quartermaster Award."

HELPFUL. "The staffer was more than a little taken aback. Object lesson for the staffer: Know the other possible answers for any question you ask." Training and education goes both ways.

Wow - that sounds like a really great project! Kudos and best wishes to your son. With the centennial coming up next year, he might be in demand to speak to local groups, historical societies, etc., about Scouting history, both locally and internationally. Perhaps he could parlay that historical interest of his into a POR as troop Historian. And once he hits the eligible age, he'll probably want to look around and check out any historical re-enactment Venturing Crews in your area.

What's the hassle? You have to fill out an application form. Big deal. I see the "shortage" as really being an failure of outreach and recruitment. However, you also have to balance that against Scout interest. Having only one Veterinary Medicine counselor in a district may sound horrible. But if, over the last five years, precisely two Scouts have contacted the MBC about the badge, one may be the right number. RememberSchiff's ideas included: 3. MB counselor need NOT be an adult scout leader, just an upstanding community member will do. (I doubt National will agree to this) MBCs now are not required to be an adult Scout leader. All they have to do is be an upstanding community member with knowledge in their fields. Registering as an MBC is only committing to counsel that badge, not do anything else. 4. YP not required AND an adult scout leader is present for all merit badge meetings. Just like any other outing activity, we don't require outfitters, museum guides, etc. that we work with to take YP. Not sure what you're saying here. You don't want MBCs to have to complete YP training - presumably because it's too much of a hassle - and you think the solution is to require registered unit adults to be present at all meetings? If I'm understanding you correctly, how would this work? Every time a Scout and MBC needed to meet, a committee member, ASM or SM would have to clear their schedule as well? I don't see that working on a practical level.

AlFansome -- Sorry, I'm just not convinced. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why ban the activity at a group event, then encourage it at home?

This is a crock of something that smells really bad. The G2SS age-appropriate guideline chart suggests that Bears and below can't do outdoor cooking. Yet Bear Achievement 9, "What's Cooking," outlined at boyscouttrail.com, includes as one of the options: "With an adult, cook something outdoors." And Wolf Achievement 8, "Cooking and Eating," from the same source, includes the option: "With an adult, help to plan, prepare, and cook an outdoor meal." Has that changed or is that incorrect? Can someone with current Wolf and Bear books nearby double-check that?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

I've not seen such a ceremony myself, but the first thing that sparks to mind is holding an outdoors ceremony, if the weather suits. Personalize it as well. If the Ranger did a lot of the tabletop display options for the teaching requirement, put those out for people to see. If she taught Cub Scouts how to do certain skills, make sure the Cubs are present. Ranger is a skills-based award, so perhaps a demonstration might be appropriate as part of the ceremony.

One of the reasons I dislike large MB "university"-type programs is that they're artificial. They offer a badge up to the Scout without the Scout having to really do anything except show up and participate. The Scout might not even have been interested beforehand, but saw a chance to get an MB fairly easily, with minimum of effort. The same thing would apply in this case, it seems. Unless there are a ton of Scouts beating down these counselors' doors so that the MBC simply can't deal with them all individually or as buddies, there's not any real need to do a district- or council-wide "MB event." That said, there's absolutely nothing keeping the MBCs from putting on an open house of her veterinary practice or his personal railroading museum, and advertising it to Scout troops, thus potentially sparking some interest among a small group of Scouts who will really go ahead with it and contact the counselor to follow up. I did a couple of MB university things as a Scout, most notably at the Naval Academy at Annapolis, where they're taught by the middies (mostly Eagle Scouts themselves). Firemanship (now Fire Safety) was good because the counselor was a chemistry guy and knew his stuff, and it was a subject I had an interest in. Atomic Energy, I didn't get much out of - and on my own, I wouldn't have completed it. Mostly, it was a chance to tour the Academy, watch a hockey game, talk to some cool midshipmen and freeze our buns off. Recruiting is definitely the way to go. It's interesting that Railroading is one of your examples, because I know personally of two counselors within about an hour of each other, and know of at least two organized model railroading clubs in a 45-minute radius. I think they'd be flattered to be asked to serve as a resource - and that's really what MBCs are. Some people may be intimidated by the title "counselor," thinking it's a more active role including teaching organized classes. Not so. Sorry for how this rambles.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

What is the Course Director's Pledge? I haven't been able to find it online.

OK, maybe it's just me, but I still can't quite understand why they want to do this in the first place. As ntrog8r wrote, they're using the troop as a base camp. It's not like a Scout coming late on Saturday morning because of band practice, or leaving Saturday afternoon and coming back after dinner because of a football game. The only reason, it seems to me, that they want to do this is because of the convenience and proximity of the hunting area to the camping area. If you were camping in an area close to an outlet mall, would you allow parents to pull their kids away for the day to drag them around for a back-to-school shopping trip, returning them to the campsite on Saturday evening? I hardly think so. If hunting is really important to this young man and his father, suggest they look into a local Venturing Crew. Hunting is a Ranger Award elective. That'll keep them involved and interested.

It really does go to show you that anything can be taken out of context. < snark on > Oh, goodness - those people in that imposing edifice over there are pretending to EAT A MAN!!! And DRINK his BLOOD!!! < snark off > See what I mean?

PeteM wrote: "The rank of Eagle is not only the written requirements, but ones of character as well." I must have missed this element of the advancement method. What is your source?

And if it doesn't meet Eagle project standards, it could still be a great troop or patrol service project.

Countless times, yes. Just two examples: A ton of great Cub summer camp program ideas, and very good suggestions for patrol competitions. This is a fantastic resource.

A spork is a combination spoon-fork - a spoon with teeth on the end, basically. This involved a camping utensil tool, designed like a pocketknife but with a spoon, fork and knife that fold into the handle.

I won't disagree with you - job descriptions are essential. But that "code of conduct" seems to me to be just a high-falutin' bunch of mush. It's not a job description. If a trainer really needs to be told this -- "Trainers refrain from interjecting or interrupting another trainers presentation. Trainers display good manners to all others. Trainers display a gracious attitude toward others." -- then they have no business being a trainer in the first place. I mean, that's just basic manners. And this? "I promise to Be Prepared for all sessions to assure an exciting and worthwhile training experience." Does a grown man or woman really need to to agree to live by a "Trainers' Creed" to get them to do something that every Tenderfoot Scout should do automatically?

Invented codes, bylaws, pledges, vows - anything above and beyond the Scout Oath, Law, Motto and Slogan are all over the top. They're generally developed by well-meaning but out-of-touch people who have an inflated sense of importance of what they do, and thus try to surround themselves with the trappings of importance to reinforce that.