shortridge

No one has an issue with the YMCA because the only "problem" there is in its anachronistic name. AFAIK, the Young Men's Christian Association doesn't discriminate against old or middle-aged men, women or non-Christians.

In looking over the Eagle requirements just now, it occurred to me that Venturers eligible to earn Eagle aren't able to use the den chief position for their POR. It made me wonder why not, and if anyone out there had experience with Venturers serving as den chiefs, either officially or unofficially. Given the emphasis on teaching in the Venturing program, it would seem to be a natural fit. But I suppose, from the other side, that National wants the contact between Boy Scouts and Cubs to be the priority, since that's the next step for the young'uns.

Convenience has to be a major part of it. There should be multiple chances during a year to take a given course. Wood Badge may be the exception because of the time involved. Communication is another key element. Publishing training schedules well in advance - like a year or even two before - are essential for folks who may have to request time off work to attend. Included in that is explicitly communicating expectations and requirements, particularly for new leaders who may not be fully up to speed. (e.g.: I just read a promo for an IOLS course that said "Bring personal gear," with no other details. Does that include a tent or not?)

Loathsome human being? Not to sound sanctimonious, but really, what part of the Scout Law does that fall under?

This may be a dumb question... but was sign-up mandatory? Or in the past, have people just kind of showed up and sat in? My guess would be that there's a crew out there with the adviser or CC forgetfully sitting on a handful of registration forms that they said they'd turn in. And how many crews are we talking about in your council/district?

Stosh - The requirement is to serve actively in the position, not to just be an active member of the troop. I'd look at what he did with his two-person patrol (him and his APL). Did they function as a patrol? Did they have a flag, cheer, yell? Did they camp or hike independently? Have regular patrol meetings? Compete against other patrols? Twocubdad's questions are spot-on. If the Scout really has nothing to say about his term as PL, there's no way he "serve[d] actively."

John, Part of what I was hoping to get at by this thread is the answer to the question of what would constitute an acceptable interfaith service in the eyes of those who have objections to interfaith worship. The training syllabus recommends focusing on the Scout Law and its principles ... but how can a service coordinator best bring those up? Are there ways to serve people of all faiths and beliefs by focusing on what we have in common, or are separate services the only option from your point of view?

The SM passed him through to the BOR. I believe this is where it should have been said "wait, you need to work on that position of responsibility" and then instruction should have been given by spl/sm/aspl/pl before holding the SMC. Who signed off on the POR requirement? At a minimum, that's where that discussion should have taken place.

Setting aside the broader issues raised in other threads, I'm wondering if anyone can provide examples of successful interfaith services or elements thereof - in other words, services that work to focus Scouts' attention on the principles of the Scout Law, as is their purpose, but that do not cross the line into worship services. What works for your unit or camp? What moral lessons, stories or tales have you used or seen used that are particularly effective? I'm looking for examples of songs, stories, readings, etc., that neither proselytize nor force Scouts or Scouters into an uncomfortable situation because of their own beliefs about interfaith worship ... those things that are universal enough to stand the test, but not so generic and general as to be meaningless. (I really value and appreciate the discussion in other past threads on this issue, but am here looking for concrete examples and suggestions, not religious debate. Thanks... )

Thanks for the full text of the DRP. I greatly appreciate it. wingnut - I'm curious ... where has anyone been kicked out of for praying over their meal? At a public school? A restaurant?

First: It is a position of responsibility, not a position of leadership. The BOR's point of view seems to be a little out of whack if it's looking for demonstrations of leadership. Second: The SPL should have been the one to set expectations of the Instructor he appointed from the start. Were they? If those expectations were not communicated, it's very difficult to judge someone on their performance. Third: The SPL and SM see on a weekly basis the performance and progress of the youth the SPL appoints to leadership positions. They are the two people the BOR/committee needs to be meeting with to discuss this issue. It's apparent the first chat, about the OA rep, didn't take.

Is there more to the DRP that uses the phrase "higher power"? Or does it just refer to "God"?

That's exactly it. Thanks very much!

As it was explained to me, it's a complex calcuation involving an embarassment-at-wearing-pantyhose-under-jeans to hobbling-at-the-intense-pain-of-chafing ratio.

"And BadenP - what did you mean by the use of the word "twinkies"?" Heck everyone knows that... Well, I know the meaning that popped into my head ... but it made me a bit confused as to how Baden knew the sexual orientation, intellectual capacity and physical attributes of people who disagree with him. Of course, he's probably referring to critics in the "snack food that will survive a direct nuclear blast" usage. Labeling opponents in that way is a common rhetorical technique in some quarters, I understand. lol.

I'm searching for a specific version of the "Frog in the Milk Pail" story - the one with the moral about never giving up - that rhymes. I can only find non-rhyming versions online. I know there's a rhymer out there, but can't find it. If anyone has it and would be able to help me out, I'd be very appreciative.

For sure, no one here knows what I'm thinking. Heck, I don't know what I'm thinking most of the time. I admit I do feel conflicted over the BSA's stances on the three Gs. But just as being a member of a political party does not mean I agree with every plank of that party's platform, being a member of the BSA does not mean I agree with every rule in the rulebook. I rationalize that I can do more good inside the tent than outside. And BadenP - what did you mean by the use of the word "twinkies"?

I think I may have inadvertently sparked some of the discussion by my use of the word "worship." BSA's materials on the subject only refer to such a gathering as an "interfaith service," designed to reflect on the Scout Law and its universal lessons and meaning. Worship is something else entirely. My apologies if I caused any confusion.

Eamonn, That's pure poetry.

How do their children do things in school, day care or daily life? Even if these boys have the attention span of a gnat, their parents have to have figured out workarounds or solutions to get them to buckle down and do certain things. Just ask.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Wonderful suggestions so far. Thanks! JFL49 - Thanks especially for the Connecticut Yankee Council site. That has some great resources!

Kumbayah is the traditional end to the opening campfire (Scout Vespers winds down the closing campfire), so it doesn't get repeated. No worries.

If the doctors truly haven't found anything, his parents likely won't be able to find one to write a note. In the absence of an underlying condition, I'm going to go with the coddled-since-birth theory. For the time being, just advise the PL to put an extra bag of bagels and a few apples and oranges on the shopping list. He'll be fine. If he keeps complaining, his patrolmates will just tune him out, and he'll realize that his little game isn't cute any more and isn't making him any friends. Another educational option is to have this Scout design a patrol menu for the weekend, just as a personal project, that meets his "criteria." The only rules: It has to contain all appropriate backpacking foods and meet the food pyramid nutrition recommendations. He'll quickly see that he's not going to be able to keep this up and do the really fun Scouting stuff.

Yeah, I know... that's part of the problem I'm running into! I've not had much of a problem finding "universal" readings, prayers, etc., that can be adapted to focus on Scouting's values, but songs are very faith tradition-specific. But thanks for the suggestions - I'll take a look!

I'm working on a chapel service program guide for my local camp - a collection of readings, prayers, messages, etc., for interfaith worship services, so staff members don't have to re-invent the wheel every year and so people attending the service will be able to read along. Where I'm coming up short is in the songs department. We have a couple of old traditional standbys, but they're really creaky and dusty. A lot of what I'm coming up with online are very denomination- and faith-specific. So I'd like to cast a wide net and ask for nominations of favorite worship songs suitable for an interfaith service. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks.