shortridge

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but this struck a chord personally and professionally. Even if it's an official BSA site, the image still belongs to someone else. Our status as volunteers in an organization does not give us carte blanche to appropriate the images of that organization. Just because something is labeled "clip art" doesn't mean it's free to use. Are you certain the person posting it and making it available for public consumption is the creator or has the rights to that art? If not, the original artist may not be getting proper compensation for his or her work. And that's not right. I don't mean to sound like a prude, but we should be teaching our Scouts not to do stuff like this. Borrowing an image for a Scout camp flyer is a quick, slippery slope to borrowing the text of an online article for a term paper. It's the "if it's online, it's free for the taking" mindset. Unless you've asked and received permission, that action is a very bad five-letter word - and if you have, all this is of course moot, and I applaud anyone for taking the step to make sure that ownership rights are intact.

The name-changed camp may have some sentimental and "cool" value down the road - like in 15-20 years, when a whole generation or two has gone through knowing it as Camp Bodie. I don't know much about monetary value, but one CSP that has definite cachet in my council - Del-Mar-Va - was one produced in the '70s (I believe) with a map of the council that left off the Eastern Shore of Virginia. There's another version that included the entire state of Virginia as part of the council. Both are errors, but valuable to people who've been around for a while. You may find some similar patches in your neck of the woods.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

I've found that an advisor (or SM) can help the planning process along by asking the questions (or variants): "What information do we need? What questions should we ask of Person X? What are the things we need to put on a checklist?" Don't tell, but ask. In my day job as a reporter, we quickly learn the difference between open-ended and directed questions - "How do you feel?" vs. "Does that make you feel sad?", for example. Sometimes you need to ask one type of question or the other to elicit a response - it depends on the situation, the subject and the person you're interviewing. Guiding Scouts is no different. Asking open-ended questions, when they don't know where to begin, can quickly devolve into a mutual exercise in frustration and early hair loss. Asking guided questions, designed to elicit a particular response, can accomplish your goal as an advisor while getting the Scouts intimately involved in the process and taking ownership.

nolesrule: Any advice or insight to share from your first weekend? I'm going to my first weekend, which also doubles as a training weekend, in two weeks. I'll be on a crew with my former Scoutmaster and his wife, and my former Cub day camp director, who's known me since I was about 8. Going to be a very interesting time.

You're correct, of course, in pointing out that any lodge member of any honor can be appointed to the Vigil nominating committee. However, it's generally usual that the committee members are current Vigil members themselves. Eagle92 - I'm not sure what you mean by the statement that anyone can nominate a Brotherhood member for the Vigil. All Brotherhood members with the appropriate "time-in-service" should be automatically eligible.

Under that criteria, the Vigil Honor in the Order of the Arrow could be considered a "closed nature" organization, as recipients are selected by current holders of the honor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that members of Masonic lodges vote on a new member's application - it's not just a public organization that anyone can join - and there are plenty of lodges that charter Scouting units. Same difference.

Great idea!

Make sitting down with the chartered organization one of your first priorities. They agreed to sponsor the pack and should be intimately involved, especially with such sudden leadership turnover.

In practical terms, what does it mean that a charter is on hold? The council won't process tour permits, advancements, etc.?

It's not just the issue of third-party storage of personal information, but the issue of putting your personal life out there for everyone to see. The rule "if you wouldn't say or do it in the public square, don't say or do it online" is golden. First Class requirement 12 addresses Internet safety. A presentation on identity theft and cyberstalking wouldn't be inappropriate, maybe led by someone who has been a victim.

I hope you got the information you needed, even if it wasn't the exact answer you were looking for. You've described some situations that sound troubling to several people here. The nature of the Internet is such that an offhand comment can set off a jangling alarm in someone's head and spark a whole 'nother conversation. No one's trying to badger you, just offer some feedback and assistance. One of the major issues to me is that the summer camp did not provide water at the program areas, over and above the ice-at-the-campsite issue. Hydration is extremely important, and should be encouraged - if not required! - by the staff and leaders throughout the day. I'm also still confused by the financial picture you've presented, including several statements that directly contradict each other. (1) "we as a troop have been told by the CC and the treasurer that we have as a troop have been "borrowing" from the boys seed accounts and now have almost depleted them." (2) "However our troop account is in the negative (virtually that is)" (3) "I just thought by doing away with the troop fund account for a little while the CC would stop saying a million times during the TR report that the troop itself has 60.00 and that we are so poor and we need money, blah blah blah, I think it comes down to the fact that someone just needs to stand up and tell her we know we don't have much money right now" (4) "Our budget is fine, it's perfect, it's been turned in and approved by the district, we just have not started our yearly fundraising yet is all. In reality our troop has about 600.00 in our general fund right now." Sorry if this comes across as badgering, but something doesn't quite seem to be right here.

Can't is different from won't, and each requires its own solution. Won't suggests that they're satisfied with what they do at present and have a lassez-faire attitude toward the program. Can't suggests that they don't have the skills or knowledge to do so. In my mind, that's a much easier problem to solve, through training and teaching.

I'm amazed, though perhaps I shouldn't be, by the amount of pure junk in the catalogue. The logo-shaped carabiners strike me as particularly useless. The $25.99 "game table" is worth laughing out loud at ("Game pieces not included, but you could use sticks and stones."). I can't wait to use my $20.99 BSA branding iron, or my $19.99 100th anniversary skillet. But my personal favorite is the $1.99 "hardwood tent pin."

I've also seen Eagle-requireds down a whole column, usually the middle.

nolesrule has a good point - dipping into scout accounts means that you don't really have scout accounts. hsscouts, I have to admit that I've read through your posts now twice, and can't understand how your troop's finances operate. It seems like everything is far more complicated than it needs to be. You need a troop treasury, with an annual budget. IMHO, you owe that to the COR, in whose name you are carrying out the Scouting program. Paying for things on a month-to-month basis, seeking reimbursement after the fact without a clear idea of the costs in advance and tapping the scouts' accounts does not, to me, seem indicative of having a clear financial plan. You may have enough tents and supplies right now for the 8 boys in the troop, as you say. But consider next spring if you get an entire Webelos den joining up. What's your plan? Will you charge those eight boys a fee for the costs of their tents, stoves, dining flies, etc., that the original boys did not have to pay? boomerscout has a great piece of advice. With only 8 Scouts, you really don't need a computer system to track anything. Pen and paper should work just fine, especially since it's a substantial financial outlay.

What summer camp did you attend that did not provide ice and water?

Encourage him to continue his internal searching process and his discussions with members of his family. Ask him, in a manner intended simply to provoke thought, how he views the relevant portions of the Scout Oath and Law, and what impact those have on his beliefs.

Welcome to the forums! You'll get different opinions on this, but IMHO, there's a MUCH, much simpler solution: Don't have "scout accounts." All money raised for unit fundraisers goes to the troop, and the PLC decides what to use it for in furtherance of their program. If there's a per-Scout fee for a special event or program, the Scout pays it from his pocket. Period.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Besides NOLS, what other organizations do you (all) look to as training programs that set the standard?

Mr. Hearn, Mr. Bradley, Mr. Dulis ... etc. ... then and now.

As I like to rotate temporary patches fairly often, I don't particularly fancy sewing them on. At the same time, I have some patches that don't fit the conventional size or design to slide into a plastic patch protector. So I'm putting this out there... Does anyone have any advice on how to best attach a loop to the back of a patch to dangle from the pocket - a certain type of glue, type of loop material, etc.?

I don't have one of those little doohickies, but this does seem pretty cool. From Scoutstuff: The 12th edition of the BSA Handbook is now available on Apple's iTunes website. This app can be downloaded and used on your iPhone or iTouch. Features include a searchable index, the ability to toggle between a full-page graphic view and a text-only view, and the ability to bookmark and store your favorite sections. In addition to being a reference for the youth of Scouting's second century, this digital version of the 12th edition Boy Scout Handbook also honors the heritage of Scouts who came before. It combines art from the previous editions with modern illustrations, photographs, and information. Visit the iTunes store and download your copy of this app for $9.99 today. Future updates and functionality enhancements are planned. Print versions of the Handbook, including a limited-edition deluxe set, are available on Scoutstuff.org or your local Scout Shop.

Another option could be running a series of workshops or programs at summer camp tailored to adult leaders who want advanced training in specific skills - nature identification, firebuilding, LNT, knots/lashings, cooking, etc.

Sorry if this takes the thread too far off-topic... kenk: Is your summer camp a unit-run camp or a council camp? If it's a council camp, there's no way that all the program is run by youth under age 18. That runs contrary to national camping standards. Each major program area should have a 18+ director, with 21+ in several cases (shooting sports, aquatics, COPE/climbing, etc.).

My understanding is that if a Scout is working on a badge at the time it is discontinued, he may continue working on it. But a Scout today couldn't simply choose to go back and earn Signaling, for example. (I just skimmed ACP&P and couldn't find this ... but that's what sticks in my head.) It's important to note that a Scout can learn any skill he wants! Scouting activities aren't limited to subjects in the merit badge program, as long as they meet safety standards. So - blacksmithing! Sure, go ahead! Personally, I'd like to see Signaling return.