shortridge

About the only situation described in the article that was even remotely worthy of using one of those was the dehydrated hiker - and that only if he couldn't find any potable water source and had no way to treat it. But since he was panning for gold - presumably (a) at a water source and (b) in possession of a pan in which water could be boiled - I don't even think that one qualifies. I started seeing the ads for these types of devices a while back, and shuddered to think how many times my clumsy self would set one off accidentally. But accidental button-pushing can, I think, be forgiven. Stupidity and ill-preparedness is another issue entirely.

If you're looking for answers to specific information about the camp program, I agree with others - checking out last year's program guide should be just fine. Place a phone call to the camp or the council offices just to ask if there's anything big that's going to be new. It sounds, however, that you may be looking for more of a "feel" for the camp - something to replace your in-person visits. That's one point where I'd have to agree many councils can improve things. Multiple photos of each program area, of campsites, of the dining hall, trading post, waterfront, etc., are easy to take - there's no excuse for not having both overview shots and close-ups of grinning campers. And most places will also send you a camp promotions video or DVD for free. I also agree that the PLC should be doing pretty much everything that you describe as your role. The troop committee shouldn't really have a role in selecting the camp, except for *perhaps* putting a price cap on the venture.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

This is off the topic, but how does one paraprofessional lead 3-4 units at the same camporee at the same time? Has Irving invented cloning? I'm not trying to criticize... I just don't understand the logistics of how that works when all the troops are attending the same event.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Not to mention the 11-year-old Tenderfoot Scout and the 20-year-old Quartermaster Award recipient. Just ridiculous.

Each character is $2.79, punctuation marks $1.49. The only lettering required to be on a unit flag is the unit type, number, city and state. The CO's name and council are optional. So Pack 73 of Rochester, OH, would have to pay less than $50 for the basic lettering. Not a gigantic cost, and you can always ask the CO for startup funds (especially if it wants its name proudly emblazoned!).

Neither of those changes - youth leadership training or outdoor adult leader training - makes any sense. I'd also like to know the reasoning. The skills you need to know to take a group of Cubs car-camping is fundamentally different from the skills to take a Boy Scout troop out backpacking or hiking. And running a patrol or troop is fundamentally different from running a crew or ship. Making everything generic and "universal" is only going to hurt both groups it seeks to help.

Insulation from the ground is the important thing. The space blanket may help you retain some body heat if you wrap it around yourself and then slide into the sleeping bag, but IMHO, any benefit will be offset by hearing the @#$%!! crinkly sound every time you move or stretch. Also wear a hat to bed - that'll definitely help keep you toasty.

Ah - the religious knot. That makes much more sense than Sea Badge, which was the only thing I could come up with. Thanks!

I also was wondering what the little blue knot was. Doesn't look like any I know. Not to come across like a critic... I do think it's a fun idea. Odd why they wouldn't do one of the CSE, though... ;-)

Why? Doesn't Venturing already have its own separate leadership training program?

le Voyageur, There's no experience or tenure requirement for ANY summer camp area director position, as a matter of fact. If you've got the skills, you can get the certification. If you required tenure or several years of experience at a certain level (say two or three years as assistant director before moving up to the director's job), no BSA camp in this country would be able to operate. They rely heavily on that corps of college students to fill their positions, cycling through a new bunch every couple of years. The number of people with solid years of experience in aquatics, shooting sports, climbing, trekking, etc., that can take the whole summer away from their families and jobs to work at camp is miniscule. It's not like there's a huge population of itinerant climbers or marksmen shifting around the country looking for work every summer. Yeah, I'd feel much more confident if my camp's aquatics director was in his or her 40s and had been a YMCA lifeguard instructor for the last 10 years and held certifications in fast-water rescue. But that's not going to happen unless you can pay them year-round. And there's NO way that's going to happen when some councils can barely pay the fundraisers.

One thing I have often wondered though, how many of these Council Summer Camps have an NRA RSO and NRA Instructor or someone who has gone through the BSA certification process? All council camps that have passed inspection must have a shooting sports director on site who is at least 21 years old and holds a current National Camp School shooting sports director's card. That is a mandatory camp standard. If they have a rifle range, they must follow it.

I found it amusing that the bobblehead of the National OA Chief is wearing non-uniform pants. http://tradingpost.oa-bsa.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2009-52 Not much else to say on that topic.

Lets hear what you guys think. With respect, you asked for advice and opinions. That's what you got, from several angles and different degrees. Can't fault people for answering your question.

The only reason I can think of for an SM to pull the plug on the unit's choice would be cost (the overall price of the camp, the cost of transportation) or leadership issues (can't get enough adults to go to camp that particular week or that far away). Those things should have been addressed early on - and it sounds like they were.

Basement, Oh, I'm a big fan of thrifting and secondhand stores. I got most of my gear and clothes at Goodwill and via eBay. But for a brand-new Scout and his family, shopping for stuff without guidance or knowledge, the pricetag can be extremely intimidating. Imagine going to the local Wally-World and buying one of everything. Winter camping in jeans? 'Nuff said. Even in the richest troop, the emphasis should be on getting a new Scout outdoors as quickly as possible at minimum expense. Buying the full uniform kit right off the bat doesn't help with that goal much.

asmt530, Is the "axe and log," "bead" game the same as the "Game of Life"?

Should the SM be removed because he didn't know what one of his patrols was doing?

The boys should be taking the lead on this. If they want to go to the camp they selected, they need to unite and inform the SM of that fact. The SM will have to justify his decision to overrule them, which will be tough.

The operative word in that example is "limit."

The OP in the thread this one was spun from referred to elections. In my mind, that's a different animal from voting as a decision-making process. Elections involve nominations, candidates and competition. I can see a committee voting to rank multiple candidates for a job; what I can't see the logic of is having candidates run against each other. There are very few elections in American public life that don't lead to bad blood at some level.

Once in a while there's a report of a bear wandering around hopelessly lost over on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. I believe DNR usually picks them up and takes them back across the bay, only charging them for the cost of the cab ride. Delaware has had the occasional report of a cougar (not THAT kind of cougar...) wandering back yards, generally up around Pennsylvania. But it's been a while.

On the issue of den meetings, I'd agree with FScouter. Unless there's a compelling overarching reason (such as the CO wants it that way!) to have all dens meet at the same time and same place, each den should be free to set its own meeting times and locations. My parents were my DLs, so I have great Cub memories of running around in my yard, doing obstacle courses and fitness tests, getting the bejeezus scared out of us playing "Refuel the Spaceship," practicing knots, doing the Wolf yell and learning Whittlin' Chip. When I later became a den chief, I was dismayed to find the den met in a room upstairs at the CO, a church. (Bor-ing! Very little fun happened there.)

Looking at the cost of equipping a Scout, the uniform isn't the biggest expense. Proper outdoor clothes, footwear, meals, a sleeping system, backpack, compass, pocketknife, rope, water bottles, handbook ... In my opinion - and there are many who will disagree - uniforms shouldn't be the first thing that a new Scout purchases. Gear should be - gear that is of proper quality, is appropriate for the conditions and climate and will last a while. That will take some guidance and coaching from the leaders - but it'll pay off bigtime when the Scouts get outside and doing stuff. If the troop's members genuinely can't afford uniforms, there's nothing that says you can't be a shirts-only troop for a while, or even a t-shirt troop, until you have a couple fundraisers and the boys save up enough money. And if they genuinely can't afford gear, dig out some old books and make your own! If bedrolls and packboards were good enough back in the day, they're good enough now.

I just wash the Gatorade bottles out really well - never had a critter problem with them. But then, I've never been in real ba'r country, either! It's not a weight issue for me - I just don't like Nalgenes all that much. Plus I'm cheap. ;-)(This message has been edited by shortridge)