qwazse

Welcome, and thanks for all you do for the boys!

The first an second "more program" proposals expect too much from already beleaguered programs. The third sounds like fun. I like fun. That's really the only reason I favor it. Well that, and I think our nation needs more youth enthused about living by the scout oath and law, and my instincts tell me that could be better obtained in mixed troops in some communities. Single-sex troops in others. It's a big country. But that is not without conditions ... I'm not willing to loose good scouters in the process. If good scouters go, so will good scouts. Proponents of #3 sometimes make their case by casting aspersions on the few boy scout organizations in WOSM. That makes me question their objectivity. Pakistan's numbers have doubled in two decades. Saudi's have gone from zero to something formidable. Folks who are dismissive of those facts are asking me to ignore scouters who are open about their biases and regard scouters who are blind to them. I find that position untenable.

I don't think the crew does the event. 4CS leads a crew that happens to be affiliated with a troop, and the troop does the event. Nevertheless, these things work best, and everyone has the most fun, when the boys call around and ask for adults to help with tasks they specify. You get the boys asking, "What can we do ourselves?" and "Who can help us with what we can't do?"

Well some of us want it to change, but we also really like our fellow scouters who don't.

Share? It is entirely the unit's fault. (I'm including mine here.) For example, I can't possibly give you the benchmark for your Librarian. I don't know what your space is like, how much literature you purchase, what the hand-me-down culture is of your scouts, your proximity to the scout-shop, you budget for a half-dozen electronic tablets, if you're all about the paper, if you need to build shelves, or lockers, or mobile storage with solar panels for recharging. Maybe you need a bevy of pamphlets. Maybe you need sheet music for your buglers and musicians. Maybe your honor guard needs a collection of historic flag pamphlets. I don't know. If I don't know any of that, how is National gonna possibly know? Figure out your own stinking benchmarks. Set them. I've said the SPL's job isn't hard, really the only tough thing is asking others to do what you think is their job, and reviewing with them afterward in an affirming way. For example, based on discussions with the PLC and JASMs who've "been there, done that," the SPL should want the library to look a certain way. If it doesn't after a couple weeks, he asks the Librarian "Would you like to discuss it with the SM? Or, can I team you up with a JASM who had your job once? Just for this month?" Oh, that's right, folks don't hand out JASM patches any more because, they bad-mouth older boys who sit around and don't do much but reminisce about "good old days" and "here's how it was done in my time." Then SM's complain that they can't keep track of all of the expectations on these dozens of PoR's. Bottom line: expect more of your PoR's. Read the words on the patch. Ask the boys how the troop would look and feel if someone was living up to those words by putting in an hour of work every week. Go there.

@@MomWhoCamps, was it AHG that you parted ways with? This is really important because as recently as last year, I've heard their national representatives on the media of their target audience promoting their brand. But that won't give us the "boots on the ground" view that parents of grade-schoolers need to know before committing hundreds of hours to a group. If you don't want to clutter this thread with "old bones", you might want to pick up where we left off here: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/24464-american-heritage-girls-question/?p=364721 or here: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/21481-partnership-opportunities-between-bsa-and-ahg/ As to your question, I haven't heard of many inquiries. Among parents locally. (Although I am on the cusp of being a generation removed, as I point out regularly to the DIL. )

By the way, you could also play this same game with smart phones. Each patrol prepares a large totem and is given an hour to relocate it to a cool location. They text back the coordinates to the SPL, who then compiles them and group texts the list of locations to each PL's communications officer. Each PL then charts a course to the other totems, the goal being to take a picture of their flag beside each totem (or, what they think is the other patrol's totem ). The PL communicates his hike plan back to HQ for SM approval. This could also be done using a shared map like in CalTopo.com. Train your webmaster in KML format, and upload. SPL's and JASM's may occupy their time placing decoy totems along the designated travel paths. (Those of you who've run in multi-level club courses know that one course's control is another's decoy.) Or, depending on the range you want to cover, providing dead-drops of lunch, etc ...

One way that I did it for venturers (should work for a bunch of patrols as well): A dry-lock container, gps, tongue depressors, stickers, glue and notebook for each patrol, material for stamps/stencils, ... Train the boys in using the GPS and marking way-points. Be clear about property boundaries and "no go" areas. Have each patrol assemble a cache, the swag will be tongue depressor totems colored with the patrol symbols. (Needless to say, if your scouts are good at mass-producing some other craft, have at it!) Include a notebook. Have each patrol make a stamp or stencil. (For signing the other patrols' notebooks.) Each patrol, then gets an index card and a GPS and hides their cache. They write their patrol name, the coords., and a hint on the index card. They come back to your HQ. First patrol turns their card in and gets the card of the next patrol to come in, etc ... Patrols hunt the cache on the card they pick up from HQ. Pick up swag. Stamp the notebook, and return for another card. HQ can get a little crazy toward the end while patrols wait for the return of a card for a cache they haven't found. The goal is to end the day with swag from each patrol, and a stamp from every other patrol in your patrol's cache notebook. You can usually get in a couple of rounds of hide-and-seek throughout the day. The stamps should be prepared the day before (hint: wood carving MB). If you'd rather not go with stamps and notebooks, you could try having the patrols make "drop-off" swag, but that gets confusing. Pro tip: have spare batteries and back-up GPS!

I believe we've had fewer kerfuffles. BUT, as a consequence of internet advancement, national has asked councils to take on a "big brother" role over advancement tracking using existing staff. That includes time spent training volunteers in using the system correctly. Needless to say, without added staff (or more often, with reduced staff), if there is more work to be done making IA work and ensuring YPT is ubiquitous, there is less work for recruitment and program building.

Some positions are indeed more "short-stop" than others. You only notice them when a line drive skips to left field. This is why I prefer SMs and SPLs to be vision oriented. How do they want the library to look? How should dues be collected? What events should have a bugler/honor guard? What should our quarters look like? What should the paperwork look like for each event? What needs to be on our website? When? Then, the follow-up question: Who's gonna make it look that way? Or, if there's a boy in mind: Mr. __ can you make __ look better? If they picture where things need to be, once they own a task, the SPL can hold them to that vision. E.g., "Mr. __ there's a book out of place. What will your mamma think?" The SPL and ASPL's job then eventually becomes leading after action review. Depending on the boy doing the review and the boys needing to reflect on their work, you may need to coach him on style. It's no longer a question of "Did you do it?" But "Is it better?" This isn't much different than what we ask the PLs to get from their boys (or presidents from their crews): Where do we see ourselves camping? How can we get there? What do we want to eat? What's our klondike sled gonna look like? With a patrol it's not a question of "Where did you go?" But "Did you go there better than you went before?"

You got it right 'krik. But, I don't know why anyone is surprised that a candidate for Eagle and erstwhile camp staff is so articulate. Most such boys would be. We're lucky that one or two of them are willing to participate in this thread from time to time and put us in our place!

Truth? When I was a scout, librarian was harder than SPL. Lots of boys earning MBs, needing books, req changes left and right, plus volumes of Boys Life to bind, scouts forgetting to check-in and check-out ...SPL was a cake-walk. I like @@Eagledad's summary. One of the fundamental problems that I see in many schools as well as in troops, people expect less. One thing that I constantly remind scouts and parents is that PoR's aren't about leadership -- even though some happen to have "lead" in the title. They are about responsibility. There are jobs to do to make a troop great, and someone has to do them. When someone does each job (patch or no patch), the troop thrives. So, back to my example, in terms of hours, the librarian should take as much time as SPL in a larger troop. If not, you might want to consider vacating that position until you all figure out what to expect from it. I posted some other ideas on Bryan's forums: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/leading-buglers/ https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/leading-quartermasters/ Finally, the method in boy scouting is called "leadership development" for a reason ... boys should start with barely getting a job done themselves and end up getting his buddies involved in helping him do a bang-up job. I was just discussing tonight with the SM and CC about how some SPLs start with more disadvantages than others.

Congratulations! Some simple-minded pointers ... The SPL assigns positions (except PL's) with your advice ... so keep him in the loop. If he so much as makes an ugly face at a name you bring up, ask why he's hesitant, respect his opinion, and see if you all can figure out a better way to work with that boy. Ignore rank patches. He who does the work holds the PoR patch. E.g., if nobody is actually organizing MB pamphlets, and nobody else cares, don't assign a librarian. But, if there is one second class scout always sweeping out the trailer or demanding that cook kits come back polished. Support the SPL by not forcing him to pick a Librarian, but encourage him to recruit that sweeper for QM. A scout is allowed to ask for help if a job is too hard for him. But if he doesn't ask, and the job doesn't get done, then you need to ask him to reconsider holding his PoR until his ready to do the work. Try to get 1st Class Scouts to choose the position they think they will do best. If one doesn't think he'll do anything well say, "Okay, let's talk about it a couple months." Don't forget the option of assigning service projects. Some boys just do better if they have one big task to work on over the course of a few weeks, rather than the laundry list of tasks that come with PoRs.

Well, that is why you need to talk to your SM. We don't know the people in your troop or district, and he may have had to deal with issues in the past that would want him to send you to a non-parent. No SM or Advisor likes to get a phone call from the council registrar questioning their scout's rank application. My first post on this forum once upon a time was about our registrar challenging Son #1's position as a crew president on his eagle application because he was filing the application through his troop. When the boy's SM heard about it, he went livid until I told him a call to national then and there corrected the staffs' assumptions. On the other hand, your SM may have been wanting your mom to be a cycling MBC for a while. And, even if you don't need to have her counsel you for this badge (we cleared that up in my previous reply), you're just the "excuse" he needs to get her signed up so that other boys will have someone he trusts available to counsel them. Honestly, you won't know until you ask him his opinion. And despite all of the rule parsing (which we will no doubt continue long after you make rank), respecting his opinion is probably the most efficient way to knock out this badge.

Oh, the 60s in the heartland! If your friend could drum up some sources (newspaper clippings, a photo, etc...), this could make for a neat topic in the Scouting History forum.

One caveat, troops sometimes do make specific rules against it. Sons' troop insisted that no more than three, and no more than one non-required could be earned from a parent. In our case, that was because our district advancement chair said he questioned any set of blue cards with similar signatures that matched the boy's last name. So, check with your SM. If it's a problem and your mom can't be your counselor, there's no reason she can't do that 50 miler with you. You could treat her to a nice lunch somewhere 25 miles away, then swing by the counselor's house on your way back to get that blue card signed.

It's not summer camp that drives obesity. Camp Anawana was on a hill side. Our camp site at the top, dining hall at the bottom, trading post just before dining hall. We slapped peanut butter and syrup on pancakes and it would have been burnt off by the time we marched back up to our campsite. Then would march down the hill to activities, maybe swing by the TP. Plus, we had a disabled kid, who we would rotate pulling a wagon. My Sons' camp was not as vertical. Cooking was in camp, well-provisioned TP was close to our site. But camp Liberty activity areas were more spread out. I'm pretty sure most boys there also burned more than they consumed. Still, one week of camp won't drive change. It's the other 51 weeks of the year that need to be set right in order to put a dent in childhood obesity. That said, good produce from the commissary can boost morale.

Well, you're in for it now! Have fun. Be novel. Grow.

Uncertainty always breeds doubt, for sure. Question: do LDS scouts attend world jamborees? I mean, obviously, some do. But are they something that the average LDS bishop would promote among his young men? I can see why one would and why one would not incorporate them in their youth program. Just curious if there's specific guidance on such opportunities -- especially since world jambos are now predominately co-ed, albeit with an older minimum age than Boy Scouts.

"Where could pressure be?" He asks NOW (http://nownyc.org/press-releases/national-organization-women-calls-boy-scouts-america-end-discriminatory-policies-let-girls-join/).

This is very sad. Especially, this article made it sound like the backpacking trip was mandatory. That confuses me: Nobody has to backpack in mid-summer to advance in rank. No 15 year old needs to advance in rank right away. No scout has to earn Eagle, ever. I've never done it, so 5 miles at 100+ degree heat on level ground sounds like a technical hike to me. Other's can expound. However, I have a friend who collapsed at mile 3 (he insists it was 5) in the Pittsburgh marathon that put him in the ICU for months and rehab for years. I visited him in the ICU and told him that between him and another friend who passed while on an evening run, I was going to take up drinking and smoking. I never did, but since then, on any sort of hike, we evaluate regularly ... especially on the stressful parts -- every 100 yards if needed. Setting up camp mid-day, turning back, or diverting to plan B, C, D is always an option. Adjust, adjust, adjust. Even the mighty can fall.

The field uniform (i.e., everything on the inspection sheet) and activity shirts. Because we have a tradition of scouts using excess fundraising to purchase what they need to serve the troop well, we have a long tradition of hand-me-down culture. Discourage the use of badge magic ... Sewn patches are easier to remove. If you get a donation for closet rods, great. Otherwise a box or two for pants, one for shirts. I've floated the idea of scouts writing their name indelibly on the neckerchief border, so that as it travels, it accumulates a little history.

In a small troop, this can be really tough. As SPL, you're seen as the "uber patrol leader", not the "patrol leaders' leader." Son #2 was in this position. I think it cost our troop dearly in that they avoided the patrol method like the plague. Pick your battles. Of the things you are doing that should be offloaded, choose one or two things you want the PL to do from here on out. They should be one or two of the more important tasks. Discuss with the SM. Then, here's one way to transition: You and your ASPL (I assume you have one) need to pick a couple of things you do "just for fun". For now, it could be some fun aspect of your Eagle project(s). It could be cooking some awesome dessert, a survival shelter, or a pioneering project. (They giant hamster wheel? That was a former SPL's obsession at camp one week.) Your line then becomes, "I'll be busy doing X (cool thing) while you do Y (offloaded tasks). Come ask me if you're having trouble." Set yourself up some distance away from the patrol, so that it will take some effort to come ask for help. Inasmuch as they succeed, reward them with praise and maybe a patch, or slice of that awesome dessert, a try at your shelter, or time on the hamster wheel! Failure is par for the course. Inasmuch as they fail, give them a fair evaluation and encourage to do better next time. But, if something's not done, don't bail them out. Remember, you're "too busy" doing X. By the way, don't be discouraged about having to adjust your style of leadership. Leadership development is a method of boy scouting. That implies that any given scout comes in with or without natural ability, but each one develops it from there. So, you came in as an "I'll git 'er done" kind of guy, now you can develop into a "we'll git 'er done" kind of guy. (Sounds like you're almost there.)

@@ItsBrian, you need to spend more time in your hammock, or at the trading post, or lashing your own personal giant hamster wheel. The position needs to look like fun before PL's will start running for it. Talking to your SM about necessary adjustments is a good idea. Needing to focus on your Eagle project is a good excuse. Not just between you and the SM, but between the SM and the boys. He needs to say to them "The current SPL to focus on his Eagle project, that means you all need to take up the slack and be more accountable to do things the way he was doing them." By the way, that is a REALLY BIG ASK for many SMs. Parents aren't comfortable with the ensuing "storming" among boys who are now finding that the spoon-feeding has stopped. Unless he's heard from ASMs or other adults who see what you're seeing, he'll likely get some agitated phone calls. So, expect a little give-and-take on this one.

I think you got a variety of answers sufficient for you to conclude that this action is a bit draconian. Most of us here feel our troops would be harmed if we acted so harshly when our SPLs didn't meet expectations. Most of us see the PLs as the anchors of the troop. SPL facilitates PL training and coordination and sometimes comes along site the more introverted youth. If he does well in his first four months, the ensuing months require less physical presence. On the other hand, we're not your boy's SM. A Unit Commissioner like @@Eagledad might advise him to lighten up, another one might have warned him to do the opposite. In the real world, superiors want more than we can/should give. And it's on us to say no more water is getting squeezed from this rock. Days without pay, being written up and sent to HR, missing salary bumps, busing through the rough part of town instead of tossing money towards car repairs and parking garages ... all were part of my career. It's called sacrifices. No regrets. It's time to stop being floored. Your son just has to say "No." That's all. No long speeches. No interpretations of Oath and Law. Nothing. Just, "Respectfully, Sir, no resignation will be forthcoming. Advance the election timetable as you see fit." Then to the boys, "Sorry guys. This is more important than troop life. See you on the next activity. If you think I've done right by you, my hat is still in the ring for the next term." Let me assure you that I practice what I preach. My kids play soccer, and when they were in high school there were times they were sidelined longer than what I thought was good for the team. I told them to take it up with their coach ... I'm not on the team. The coach eventually did discuss it with me -- because it's a weird parent who doesn't give them a piece of their mind. I said, "Yes, he or she's bothered. But, that's between you, him/her, and the players. Thanks for your hard work."