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Definitely, press from day 0. Nobody step up? No den. Talk next year. Offer to come along side whoever will step up, but you're counting on those couple of people who will take point. It's the opportunity of a lifetime for them. They don't want to miss it.

Truth: I didn't date until I was 20. Fortunately Mrs. Q was patient with my inexperience. That was mainly due to witnessing the train wreck of my older sibling's relationships ... and figuring that Mom was only half-crazy with her old-world attitude. I think more young people are taking in more experiences (observing online what's happened to others) and deciding that the real stuff can wait until later. One of my three kids did. Others of my friends have an even higher portion of their kids who've avoided the "teen scene" of past decades. That doesn't change the need to walk through this world on their own two feet. But, it is hard. Right now my venturers aren't engaging the program. They are at the age where I expect them to call their own meetings and be physically present for one another. It seems to be a huge hurdle for this group more than any other I've known.

A lot of folks get their first "counseling skills" at wood badge. Even then, the rough edges (i.e., their degree from the counseling "School of Hard Knocks") might take some time to wear off. Sometimes you can find the tool made right for the nut, other times you have to fit the nut to the tool you can find.

Unfortunate that none of us really caught on to the blog function of these forums! But do keep talking 'skip. Probably while you were a cub, I was drifting through Chelsea. The vicar conscripted me to help teach the Sunday School for his grade-school children. Your descriptions make me wonder if one of the kids born from that lot drifted into the group your lot camped beside.

I suppose none of you were ever cussed out for your poor strokes by a Red Cross aquatics director who once flew in the Women's Air Corps. There's a special place (chain smoker's section) in heaven for Beatty. She's probably still waiting for one of us to meet there after a drowning incident. Could the ASM's have done better by deferring decisions to the SPL? Yes. Should they be the brunt of everyone else's ridicule? Adults need to have fun somehow. Should they promise Johnny they'll do better next time? Yep. Ashamed? Naw. They got the boys home alive and well. Let the SM know. Especially if the scout is still so bitter about it that he's not attending meetings. Move on.

There is no MB that has to wait to the next year of camp. Scout is given his partial the last day of camp. The day he comes home, he e can contact a counselor in his community, explain whatever he didn't complete at camp (although it should be clear on the partial what requirements were completed), fulfilli what was lacking. Counselor signs card, boy takes the remaining two portions to SM, SM signs scout's portion, and retains unit's portion as a minder to record advancement with council and order the patch. The whole process could be done in a couple of days ... depending on what the scout does in his free time. So, someone wrongly instilled a "now or never" sensibility in this scouts mind. That added unecessary drama.

Independence comes with ability. I assure you, if you don't grant that independence in scouting, boys will find their independence anyway outside of scouting. If in the process of being independent outside of scouting, they amass poor character, I assure you they will bring bad behavior back into scouting no matter how tight the adult oversight is. It sounds like in your gut you know this. If your direct-contact adults know this too, you'll make wise decisions.

On one level, I'd agree -- especially if that priority scheme came from Mom and Dad. Things get a little fuzzy when your in a troop and everyone is trying to up their MB count. The boys start finding that scramble to "pack one more in" to be its own kind of fun. Meanwhile a couple of older boys (the been-there-down-that type) are all about "the inner pyro." When do you drop what your doing and take a partial to help your fellow scouts stack the logs? When do you settle for a smaller bonfire to allow your fellow scouts to up the troops MB total for the week? SMs/ASMs should be pointing out where boys need to be concerned about their conflicting agendas. Sometimes that "pointing out" comes out all wrong. When that's happened in our troop, the ASM would wind up being teased mercilessly by the rest of us adults. Sometimes we'd let the boys know to not worry, he got his. Other times we'd remind the boy that the leader meant well and really could have been anyplace else all week.

I've had more trouble with adults in that arena than with youth, so for me, it's a horse apiece.

29 new boys? All tigers? You need two DLs! So, even if you could fudge the paperwork, you could only be one of them. You need to lay it on the line with the parents. For this to work, a couple of them have to run point and the rest of them have to regale those two with flowers and chocolate. There are perks. Not the least of which is a decade or two from now, some very fine young men will think the world of you.

Yeah, I got that "voice of God" thing (the thunder-on-the-mountain, not still-small-voice type) going on too. It's great for announcing soccer games and pitching concessions, not so great for conveying expectations to youth. Plenty of times after action, I've had to apologize for how I came off. That said, in situations like these, help your child develop a thicker skin. Singled out? Well, I grew up an Arab American in a county rife with Klansmen and short on African Americans. Singled out was a way of life and came from all sides, all age groups, and all classes: Dad's fellow guardsmen, my fellow scouts. It could be about anything, from Mom's old-world attitude, Dad's prodigious nose, food rife with garlic and other spices, our kindness towards the unlovable, our affinity with camels (which, for the record, none of my kin ever raised), Grandpa's loyalty to the UMW (whose banner he flew just under the nations flag) ... if there was a way to say we didn't belong, it was found out and pointed out. So, maybe what my family did will help your son. 1. There was to be no crying or excuses for who we were or why we do what we do. That included no whining about what other people said or did. 2. For each such scenario there were two options. a. Be more like them, and stand up to us. b. Be more like us, and invite them to supper (metaphorically, although Mom did stock three freezers full just in case ...). I quickly learned that the food thing was more fun and resulted in fewer tears. So, encourage your son to identify with whatever good thing he was being singled out for, and invite his ASM in. After a dress-down, if it went as you described. He should have a quite word with the ASM and offer something like ... "With all due respect sir, I thought you all would be more upset if I left advancement work hanging. I'll try to manage my schedule better and be there for my guys next time. Until then, if you're a counselor, I'd like to work on my next MB with you."

Hi @@BeastlyGaming, your link only works if someone copys and pastes it to their browser's URL field. Best of luck gathering virtual scouts for a chat or two!

@@stevenb, welcome to the forum. And thanks for all you've done for the boys. I know the feeling. My crew has been on the brink for a couple of years. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts as well.

The fun in "explaining" depends on how they approach it. It can be fun if, for their section, each patrol ... Makes a skit, puppet show, or video Create a song ... with motions. Hides the bullet-points around the scout house property. Or figures out some other game or puzzle where patrols have to race to "get" the complete explanation. (Pro-tip: hangman is always good for terms.) Brings an expert in who has good demonstration materials (e.g., for all those potential diseases from cooking: a doctor with specimen slides or pictures of symptoms!). Then, at the end of the series, scouts vote on which patrol had the best presentation. This will definitely be disruptive to folks who want advancement to be "easy." But, it forces advancement to lean on other methods (patrols, leadership development, adult association, personal growth). It focuses the question in this topic from "who's running?" to "where's the show?".

I would rather get an honest grade from the teacher, maybe with a call in advance warning me to be patient with my children but promising that the school would unflinchingly, yet kindly, expect more from her. We had to "train" our youngest son's elementary school teachers to let us know immediately when homework was not turned in. Because of his other positive traits, they were willing to overlook his neglectfulness. We weren't. I sincerely hope your daughter finds a GS troop or other club that will challenge her to put herself "out there." At the same time, some people are more fulfilled by "behind the scenes" work, of which this country needs a lot. So never let your two young introverts disappoint you.

Fact is, troops of less than 20 should leave SPL/ASPL vacant. A couple of PLs and maybe a JASM or two is all you need to support everyone. Every other boy takes on a practical PoR or picks a service project to do for the troop.It's when you get to three large or four small patrols that you need a lower level of support. Note: I find it best to turn organizational charts upside down. The chief positions being ones that support the others. Note to Self: I need to put that ice cream cone diagram online,

Be careful what you wish for. Venturing has been the fastest shrinking division of the BSA. There are lots of reasons for it, but the nebulous leadership structure could partly explain it.

I tackle this slightly differently. I prepare parents that I will encourage scouts to plan excursions on their own. This includes the scouts reviewing: a map/brochures ... sometimes the week before ... sometimes the day of ... often times both, skill sets (how many 1st class scouts are among you), boundaries (that includes time constraints as well as obstacles that may require qualified supervision). equipment needs, weather outlook, personnel needs. Each patrol reviews their plan with me -- every week leading up to the event. They start out real general, and get more specific. Generally, these guys don't give me a plan separate from the troop's overall schedule. So, usually it's something like "After we set up camp, we would like to go see ..." Based on that, I ask them to "fill in the gaps" of anything mentioned above. Often they will ask for an adult or two. They will be specific. For example, they know not to ask me to open a shooting range for them. They will ask me along if they want to identify flora and fauna, or if they need qualified supervision for a safe swim. When they don't, they will usually provide a rendezvous/extraction point and time for an adult to meet them. Youth with a good plan are safer than they'd be with adults and a bad (or no) plan. We are exited and nervous for this year because the boys have organized themselves into four diverse patrols and it's not clear if we will get a good range of multi-tiered activities -- or we'll get everyone always trying to march to the same drummer. Our CC is rightly concerned that we might not always have adults for the things they want to do.

Welcome, and thanks in advance for all you'll do for the boys. Some ideas: Treasure hunts! Mix-and-match trail mix table. Fall hike. Mini- service project. (Ask the ranger. There may be some litter pick-up, or some wood to stack.) The real lesson: do whatever your parents (or your local boy scouts or venturers) will volunteer to organize. In other words, as CM, don't get sucked into lots of tasks when you should be covering the territory making sure boys are happy and everyone has what they need to have fun safely.

Got a preferred edition? Yeah, about that ... Our CO does not provide internet access, and our prime camping spots are beyond coverage maps. I suspect we are not alone. So, if we had mass-storage for vids. Which are the "must-downloads?"

So, getting off of my anti-EDGE soapbox, and just having fun with the boys ... We have two librarians -- both second class rank so they don't need the PoR for advancement, but they've been begging to have the position. Last night they hit the ground running ... sorting MBPs and moving them from a box to a shelf for easier access. Chaos ensued, with scouts verbally "checking out" their favs. The bugler snatched up music/bugling and he had his trumpet (came straight from band) out and started practicing, asking me and a buddy of his to coach him on some of the tougher calls. The librarian swore that from now on, "no checking out books without showing me your blue card!" Besides MBPs and maybe some handbooks, what other references would your boys like to check out? What have you seen your boys liking to read? What have they translated into real skills that served their patrol/troop? In other words, if someone told me they'd like to purchase a book or two for our troop library, what would be on the wish list?

Congratulations to your son! I just spent last night coaching our new bugler in some calls, and I'm really looking forward to our troop rallying under the young man's muster. It's a tight fit for some of the shorter sleeves. But my off-the-cuff call would be: Put "Trained" in the drawer if there's no room. Tell him to grow into a larger shirt ASAP.

About 10 years ago, I tried to connect our camp director with a branch logistics guy who told me of a surplus of supplies following a major event. Part of the problem may have been timing (the start of a busy camp season). But, when I followed up with the CD, he said the stipulations were prohibitive... not the least of which was being on site to claim different items on different days. I'm not sure if the process has changed. But, I'd agree that troops who show desire and develop the discipline to prepare for relief work would do well to have a procurement guy with a flexible schedule to respond to available surpluses.

Oh, yay! I can get on my downfall-of-civilization soapbox. But, he doesn't have it. The thing about human memory is, it forgets! And be it one skill or another, it will be forgotten. If all that was used is EDGE, the student will be left unlearned and totally dependent on his instructor. A scout must not first be explained a skill, or shown a skill, or condition muscle memory to do a skill ... He must be shown a reference about a skill and, to the best of his ability, read it!!! That way, the teaching of his instructor has some permanence beyond the bounds of human memory. The EDGE method falls woefully short in that department. <Rant over, for more see http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/7204-edge-why-dictate-it/?p=304641> It's not book work per se that scouts find stifling. It's book work that doesn't "come alive." I think some of the girls who are interested in BSA picked up the Boy Scout Handbook or Boy's Life, taught themselves a few skills, and concluded "This is fun. More please!"

My main concern is boys having a tool that their hands can't grip. My second concern is not every sheath grabs the blade smoothly or releases easily. A third concern is that stupid happens fast, sometimes faster than webelos can think. That said, you have to start somewhere.