qwazse

Nearly everybody (be they scouts or sports clubs) pitches character and leadership when recruiting youth. We offer skills that will forestall death. Lighting fires is one thing, lighting them in freezing rain is another. Swimming is one thing, safely rescuing a tired swimmer is another. Hiking is one thing, helping an injured hiker stave off shock is another. Camping is one thing, making the shelter out of found items is another. Roasting a hot-dog is one thing, a four-course meal is another. None of these skills need to be learned under a "high adventure" or "character/leadership" moniker. They sell themselves if we instill a vision of the pinnacle scouting experience: hiking and camping independently with your mates.

Welcome! E. Prep is best done on one's own with the help of a counselor in the boy's district. The boy's scoutmaster or troop committee chair should have access to a list of counselors for that badge. He'd meet with the counselor once to talk about what he needs to do. Learn the material and do the requirements. Then follow-up with the counselor to demonstrate how he's completed the requirements. Sometimes, it's fun to team up with a fellow scout and go through the requirements and meeting with the counselor together. If your troop has other Eagle scouts, they might be able to tell your boy who their favorite counselors are. Maybe a member of this forum from your area will tell us about a program that a local fire or police association does for scouts who want to earn this badge. Earning Eagle is a big stretch for a Life scout ... it involves a boy calling people and arranging lots of meetings. But, it is a worthwhile experience.

?Two-deep leadership applies to overnight activities. My understanding is that is what we are talking about. And, I don't see BSA backing down on requiring at least two leaders, one of opposite sex to the others, if youth of opposite sex are on an overnight. For meetings and other half-day activities, no on-on-one contact applies.

I've seen all kinds.I always did church- and scout- camp as a kid. Sometimes two of each in a summer. My folks never went on vacation, so for me it was a no-brainer. I vividly remember an older camper at church camp patiently teaching me to bat a wiffle ball. Meant the world to me. He was also a scout in my troop, but I don't recall seeing him at camp all that much. (But in my day, being in a different patrol radically diminished your contact with another scout.) Mrs. Q and I priced out other camps, and concluded that, aside from scout camp and the occasional music festival, we could do better for the money we would otherwise spend by catching up with family in various parts of the country.

That Scout Sun #2 must be one bright kid!

For @@Hawkwin's benefit (but also in case someone else was afraid to ask): I know of two ways: 1. Type the "@" sign and the name. This works well if the member's handle is a single word. 2. From a workstation, there is an icon for "Special BB Code" on the top row of the edit box. Click it then select "member". A field will appear where you can type the name. Type it, and click "OK". The text to generate the link is inserted, surrounded in square brackets. In fact if you want to try and edit/type code freehand, there's an icon that looks like a switch that lets you "step behind the curtain" of all of the fonts and frames in a message. Has anyone else come up with other tricks/faster ways to link to members ... especially names with blanks and special characters? I don't know that linking a member in a post does much more than send them a little notification on their messenger icon. I guess it allows readers to navigate to that member's profile. I've found the links handy sometimes when I forget what someone has written about in the past, and feel like I need to get up to speed to avoid typing an ignorant reply.

False dichotomy. Other summer camps dole out trophies, ribbons, patches, and certificates. Kids love them.

This is a really big country, there is a huge cost to assuming that social activism has established norms on any issue. Although this particular forum would allow me to delve further, I'll stop there. @@Hawkwin, the one word answer: "Trust". You and I might have it regarding one anothers' daughters, but I assure you that parents of everyone else's girls would not have it toward us. More importantly, from BSA's perspective, lawyers representing aggrieved parents would capitalize on that mistrust.

"High Adventure" is a niche market. Also, from the perspective of parents of 11 year olds, it sounds like those places you hear about on the news where kids die attempting ridiculous feats. Now, senior scouts do look for trek-type components. So, we need to market those ... along with brutally honest safety records for parents ... to scouts who feel they've accomplished summer camp, but let's not call summer camp "high adventure." It's not. Nor should it ever be. Summer camp is still a big deal in Western PA. City papers have full pull-out sections advertising them in their spring issues. My Floridian contacts are all about winter camp. It's the category most parents are looking for. And MB's are a totem in their own right. Heck, at a particularly slow traffic light, a popular camp (endowed by the estate of a pickle packer) had one billboard depict four MB-like medallions. (I know for a fact that they don't even award badges!) My neighborhood's most famous baristia-turned-humble-barber and his wife bought matching traveling jackets on which to sew patches from their visits to national parks. Yes they are in the Jr. Ranger Program. Shake your head all you want and mutter "steel-town hipsters", but this guy started three successful small business in his life, selling each on its upswing. If a guy like that wants little pieces of cloth in exchange for spending a few days someplace beautiful and picking up skill or knowledge along the way, why wouldn't a kid? So, lets not blame the parents. Scouts want these benchmarks too -- nearly anybody would. That means we all are stuck striking the balance between making sure a variety of awards are available through summer camp and making sure that scouts come by every award they get honestly.

We've been here before. Let me channel Mr. Rowe egregiously: "We're American scouts and scouters. If we are not our own spokespersons, the Mike Rowe imprimatur will do us no good." Don't reinvent the wheel. Borrow egregiously from Scouts UK, Scouts South Africa, and Scouts Australia. Especially: focus on the "Prepared for Life" theme. Sell how scouting give skills that will forestall death. Although, from time to time, I've shared the "We Are Happy Scouts" home grown challenge that WOSM did a few years back. The one of British cubs chatting by the fire is really cute too. Also, look up "Venturing is Awesomer." Honestly, everyone here should, at least twice a year, post on social media (or send a link via mass E-mail) your favorite PSA - be it professional or amatuer produced - related to scouting, and add a tagline like "Ask me more, I'll hook you up." If you're not doing that, don't waste BSA's time. Short of someone throwing down some millions for a commercial slot during Superbowl (and, nowadays, the World Cup), asking for any marketing favors from national is just gonna lose us some good boots-on-the-ground professional staff.

Thanks @AltdenaCraig. I'll not deny that the time demands of social media on our teens (and the rest of us) is something to struggle with. I will insist that a net good are teens who are less promiscuous, more sober, thriftier, more closely tied to thier parents, and more focused on longer term yields over short term gain. But, so long as scouting has a bizarre social media policy that treats all scouter's as potential predators rather than potential sounding boards, it will have precious little to market to iGen. We have nothing to offer unless we're there to see the mind of a troubled scout and say, in front of all his/her peers, "If you want, we can discuss this ... I'll give your PL my coordinates and we can arrange an event." That's basically what the outdoors does for humans ... it gives them time to build trust, let their guard down, sound off, meditate, and grow.

@@Eamonn, my depth perception is getting the better of me, so I -1ed when I wanted to +1. I always tell my scouts that the first thing to find at camp is the kitchen ... not just because of the food, but because that's where the best stories are told.

Furthermore, providing an adult training "intro to merit badge counseling" at camp might help new parents "raise the bar" for their camp and their kids. Leveraging volunteers residing at camp who are "tried and true" MBCs is also helpful. Camp staff can introduce the volunteer as a "guest counselor" for the week.

I think camps can step it up one more notch by reinforcing 1st class skills. So, like the swimming requirement that must be done every year before starting in on an acquatics MB, each year ... The five scouting knots must be tied before qualifying to take scout craft. Tool sharpening before qualifying for handicraft. Rights and responsibilities before qualifying for shooting sports. Identify 10 animals/plants for nature badges. Etc ... Basically, any MB being offered should only be done so after a scout demonstrates skills related to that badge. That might be one way to reduce class size - meanwhile ensuring that students arrive prepared to learn.

Excuse me, but I don't consider take reductions in promiscuity, drunkenness, and wasted money on vehicles and insurance they can barely afford -- to be signs of a flawed developmental pathway. Unmentioned is an increase in health-professional, and advance placement studies, and service-earning. So, we have fewer kids bagging groceries for pin-money and more volunteering with EMT, hospital, starting their own online businesses, or junior apprenticing with trades. Where did they learn how to do this? That inter-web thingy put "ideas" in their head. Not gonna lie - a lot of my friends got derailed by 70's culture - thinking they could always dig coal or roll steel or something to pay for their beer and weed. Decades of life wasted (their words, not mine). If more kids these days are thumbing their noses at that kind of culture, there's hope for this country.

One fine point @@Hawkwin, up until recently, Home Repairs was the one MB where parents could (and usually would) automatically serve as the scout's counselor. National's YP paperwork demands have got in the way of that. So, that's been revised with a footnote: Either a parent or the merit badge counselor may supervise the Scout’s work on any Home Repairs requirements. How that actually works out on the ground is between the parent, the boy, and the MBC. But it does show that we as a scouting family are permitted to use our wits to make it work for everyone involved!

This is why things should be decided on a case-by-case basis. Here's a scout who is recruiting a counselor for his district ... basically because he knows she will mentor and come-along-side scouts who might want someone to closely supervise them on big challenges. The scout has leveraged his desire for a parent-child activity to recruit that counselor. Now that need could have been met, and he could have used an existing MBC who would, per his/her modus operandi, met him and mom at the end of the cruise, do a quick after action review, and sign-off on paperwork. But, that might not have gained the district a devoted MBC who will go the extra mile .. times 50! One stone, two dead birds. In the flip side @@ItsBrian, you're gonna owe your mom some flowers and chocolate for every patrol she helps to "get their cruise on."

But that's the difference isn't it? In some parts, an t-shirt does not become an activity uniform until worn with a necker: At least I think that's why BSA tried to get us to warm up to the idea two years ago. Will there really be a higher expectation that everyone will have neckers on hand if not over shoulders? I don't know. But I do know that new arrivals from English-speaking countries will expect to be readily understood, and it might give a scout grief if he or she is not challenged to prepare for a bump or two. On the other hand, if a scout gets a couple mental exercises about recovering when things get lost in translation, he or she will more likely enjoy the differences.

Insert my "It's a big country" rant here. For reasons discussed elsewhere, we may see the occasional American at Jambo forgo neckerchiefs where scouts from other associations wouldn't be caught dead without them. But, I certainly hope that many of our visitors to World Jambo will have time for extended visits to camps and scout houses throughout Canada, the US, and Mexico. The goal of the question is to get a scout thinking on how they would handle something/someone who doesn't have the same expectations as he/she does. This is not has hard when two people don't speak the same language or dress radically differently. Something goes of in the brain that accepts the fact that there be a wide range of things to sort out when communicating, so don't get hung up on small stuff. But when two people look and talk similarly, all of a sudden differences in manners "glare". You might rather send us your scouts prepared to handle those difference with friendliness and courtesy. In other words, it's not about the nail necker...

Welcome, and thanks for you do for the kids.

"Can you tie a friendship knot?" "If you met a clueless Yank, how would you teach him/her a friendship knot?" "If you were to challenge a Yank by throwing down your necker, how would you spare him or her the embarrassment of not having one?"

@@HelpfulTracks, I do not propose to speak for any of the family. Grief like they are feeling has come all too close to our troop. In our experience, our affected family was glad that we all asked very hard questions, although in our case we could find nobody to fault. I would say that unless we here directly from the families involved, these discussions on how to deliver the program we promise don't qualify as "too much to soon." Some of us design backpacking programs for scouts and other young people. Hashing this out and garnering any lessons learned may very well forestall death. So, back to topic ... The YPT portion of G2SS is not at issue here. I've said elsewhere that two unqualified adults on a patrol hike are worse than none. Because of injuries, I have removed myself from sections of hikes and arranged rendevous with contingents of youth and one or none adults at checkpoints or outposts that would minimize my miles hiked. But that was because, among the youth (or one adult) were seasoned backpackers with first aid skills. We had reviewed the plan in advance, including checking the weather and flood levels for potential hazards, adjusting if necessary. Now, on my good days, I only have a clear understanding of the PA/WV envelope. In that context, reviewing the advanced forecast, I would not approve any hike in 105 degree temps for a seasoned patrol of EMT's. That is simply far outside our backpacking performance envelope. And it's not just me. Nobody I know - and that includes friends from the Arabian peninsula - could tell me how to prepare scouts to manage hiking under those conditions. (There are these Sudanese guys and gals in town, but they had to endure a level of crazy heat that they swear they would not wish on their worst enemies.) If I called anyone and said, "There are these boys with this awesome hike plan, the only catch is this week's temps ..." They would tell me to strongly consider caving. So, for this scenario, zero scouts and zero adults is the correct combination that I would guarantee to parents. But what do I know? I was raised 10 miles north of the Mason-Dixon line ... almost almost heaven. Maybe in TX there are scenarios where one can enjoyably hike newbies in 105 deg heat as long as a couple of key people are monitoring vitals. In that instance, if those two key people are 17 y.o. heat shock specialists, I'd count them as the "two adults" that the camp was promising. The point is, when I pick up that brochure, I want to be convinced that the best people for the worst conditions are my kid's trainers, that nobody would put my kid in an advanced situation when his beginner skills have not been given a year to gel, and that the camp director - filling in for the SM - will make no-go decisions when conditions exceed a patrol's performance envelope. But then again, that's why I would never send my kid to camp to learn backpacking.

Well, None took me up on it. I guess they thought it would be habit forming. Actually, I never did ask. I had a relative in the Benedictine order who I was on the verge of calling. Never needed to follow through. My scouts were mostly Protestant or unchurched and wouldn't have a foundation for the fears that you seem to be so intimate with, DCO. In PA, sisters from some orders are avid sportswomen. Sister John Paul Bauer gained a notoriety after her diocese posted a picture of her with her prize buck. Evidently some activists took umbrage of the hypocrisy of Christian clergy killing wild game. They clearly missed St. Peter's vision to "take, kill, and eat" from the cornucopia of the Lord's provision. Regardless, the story made me come up with one of my favorite puns: "Why did Sr. Bauer leave a space for her whiskey in her gun locker ammo shelf? ... She wanted it to be lead by the spirit."

I will try to get to where Flagg wanted to go, but without the ad hominem ,,. Are you suggesting that CNY's participation/sign-up issues would be solved with a little call to big brother? Or are you suggesting big brother would shut him down in a heartbeat, so he should throw in the towel? National publishes a fluff piece on family camping never suggesting things like mentoring or contacting their council/district for a list of Cub Scout family camping events. That might actually help a family camp more. I just don't get the condescending attitude.

Welcome to my world. The second worse thing I've experienced as a scouter was having to tell young women that a trip was not available to them for lack of moms to go backpacking with them. That was before I joined the council venturing committee and learned to build a depth chart: women from other units, older sisters, college age Girl Scout leaders, former venturers, friendships from Wood Badge, nuns, single women, ex-military, scout moms whose boys no longer wanted them around, etc ... Yes, it felt weird being a middle aged married guy propositioning women to come for a weekend in the back country, but if it was a choice between weird or rejecting, l could get used to the wierd. As to the girls affected, mine came up with a plan B for the following week and recruited two moms.