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@Hawkwin, dissenters didn't go away. They merely voted (I would say in a blind rage, in spite of their protestations to the contrary) and will continue to do so in ways that confound the narrative of an evolving America. The establishment removed the privilege position of licensed heterosexual monogamous unions. Those who felt that to be a significant watering down of their status withdrew support. It is one thing to be asked not to throw stones. It's another to be asked to kiss the ring. They may not slap the hand. But they will withdrawal and occupy themselves elsewhere. BSA's promotion of co-ed programs (like Explorers, STEM Scouts, and Venturing) simply have not sold to LDS. It was generous of them to try retrofitting them to their needs for these past 5 decades. Any BSA4G program will either have to suit the needs of their Young Women or be dismissed as one more dog-and-pony show that they'll have no part of. So, the question becomes, who is BSA's new market? And, are they buying?

Our PLC has been doing a huddle after every meeting. Works well for this SPL, who quickly goes over upcoming program and responsibilities and asks about problems. The troop guide came up a few from his new scout patrol. My general advice to guides is to focus on advancing the natural leaders in their groups and find something fun for the rest. He brought up what he thought were several barriers to that. One was a scout who said he's only there because his dad makes him. (This came as a surprise to me because he seemed like one of the more enthusiastic young men in the bunch.) I may or may not bring this up to the parent - whose older kids are growing up strong and good - to him and his wife's credit. But, if you heard this from your TG, how might you advise him and the SPL?

An articulate SPL can do incredible things in working a crowd of adults. But, not every boy is gifted in that area. The fact is, adults will put their boys in patrols at a distance from one another only when they see patrols working. Since this fall, our PLC has had a15-20 minute huddle after every meeting, either the SM or I drop in to field any questions (which are getting fewer, but tougher to answer). The committee is backing off as the boys are stepping up. It's still tough for some of them to see the organized chaos and keep a tight lip. But I am hearing things like "I never thought it could work like this." Regarding some of those tough-to-answer questions, if I have a moment a start a topic for each one.

So, flash cards .... but with batteries?

I don't know. A good meal involves a lot of leadership, responsibility, and values. I rember 13-year-old me staring down my last can of franks and beans, saying "Never again." My patrol began to live large (like I saw my SPL and his leadership corps doing) after that. I don't think it came up on my boards of review. But, getting my buddies to cook well for ourselves (and still having time to fly the army surplus box kite the SM loaned out) was as good a marker of leadership development as any.

The Atchafalaya swamp is between Baton Rouge and Lafayette. Not the easiest ride from there to the Big Easy.

Typically, with the HA bases, preferred slots are filled by the lottery winners. Then, the less preferred slots are offered to the units who participated in the lottery, who may or may not accept those slots because, well, they weren't their preference. Then, the remaining slots are announced publicly in an "extended lottery." I expect the expense of last year's Jamboree and the ambiguity of who will be accepted to the US contingent at World Jamboree are contributing to a lack of commitment to reserving spots in the HA bases. Needless to say, SBR in WV now directly "competes" with the other HA bases ... especially with offerings like Venturing Fest and other programs. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Oh, and for a lot of scouts and their families, the economy still is hitting them hard. A falling tide grounds all boats.

The venturing 4-deep-for-big-woods YPT is over-cautious. I did use such as opportunities to train more adults, but when I went over the requirements with my brother (a hikemaster at the Y of the Rockies), he said, "Why don't you just have three adults? One stays with the injured and the youth, and two go to get rescue!" Again, with mature youth and younger adults, that 4:5 or 4:6 ratio isn't that bad ... but finding the numbers for what effectively becomes a parent-child (or ideally, older sibling-younger sibling) outing is not trivial.

Like all authority, a light touch goes the longest way. The COR could try reading the riot act to imposing ASMs. That might work if his words are backed with years of experience and a solid understanding of how much the CO wants a by-the-book scouting program under its roof. Otherwise, we're left with the SM trying to find opportunities where the boys can operate at a distance from adults, and the CC running interference while the COR fields "complaints."

Families who paid in advance lock in their space for the numbers they pay for. Maintain a waiting list in case of cancellations. To make your treasurer's life easier: no refunds. Wait-list families can pay the families who cancelled directly. Or better yer, insist that it is incumbent on the family who reserved the space to transfer the other family collecting $ on their own. Not every community (or treasure) feels comfortable laying down such strict rules. So, you have to decide if it will work for you. (Needless to say, cost of the event is a factor.)

In conclusion, within 30 years, BSA asserts that without a troop, a patrol may lack supervision, coordination, institutional loyalty and service (empahsis @TAHAWK's). So, to be "the best it can be" by standards of today or 8 decades past, a patrol's better part of wisdom would be to seek all of those good things that a troop should provide. This is not a rallying cry for Troop Method (in the way we use it on this forum to describe adults who abuse their privileged position and undermine youth leadership development). Maintaining a bead on the rightful role of the troop is part an parcel of the patrol method -- as stated in a BSA guidebook on the topic.

If you know the neighborhood in which he serves, his troop may be listed in https://beascout.scouting.org/, But, that might turn up multiple troops, packs, and crews ... only one or two of which might have his name on the roster. I think searching his name in general is more likely to get you someone familiar with him. Folks are pretty tight-lipped about information these days.

Every scouter is different. One year Son #2 and I could not resist getting our SM a paper-doll book of the man's favorite president and 1st lady. The guy cherishes it in his shelf of collectibles. But, he would definitely be the type to appreciate a quality knife. I, on the other hand go through ropes and tarp like nobody's business. This year I lost a headlamp and have yet to find a suitable a wide-brimmed leather hat to replace the one that wore out last year. Most of my colleagues being female, however, I usually put wool socks, ski gloves, and balakava's on my wishlist. But, I'm also overjoyed if an alternative gift (e.g., to some charity helping the impoverished) is given in my name. One other suggestion: if the fellow is into backcountry hiking, a collection of jerky or a cache to a dehydrated foods might suit him. Do you know someone in this leader's troop? They might be able to point you in the right direction. oh, and welcome to the forums! Let us know what you land on, and feel free to come back if you have a question about scouting in general. We have opinions.

There's nothing in the manual for when adults behave like children. It's great that you are your pack's secretary, but you are right that that's not the same as being two leader's intermediary. There are three viable scenarios: These two straighten up They move out You move on The one other person who should be in this equation is the Charter Organization Representative (COR). That person signs off on every leader in the unit. So, his/her opinion on the situation would matter a lot.

I think it's great that this spins into its own thread. The title only tangentially catches my point: that it's folly to separate patrols from troops and think you can get away with calling it scouting. I stroll through woods and parks and see patrols of boys (along with the occasional brazen girl) all the time. So, in the sense of a gang, patrols form with or without scouting. It's how young humans fill social vacuums. Modern young humans have the advantage of easy access to written word around which to actualize their naturally forming patrols. The troop, however, gives the patrol legitimacy, location, legacy, and proximity to other patrols. That's why we can equally reemphasise E94s quote: To be a scout you should join a patrol or a Scout Troop in your neighborhood. Either or, not first one, then the other. But clearly, even as B-P writes, the troop is fast becoming the vehicle by which boys find great patrols, while the patrol is only rarely a vehicle by which boys find great troops. It would be interesting if when a troop drops to 10 boys, the CO would receive a certificate for hosting a patrol, and the troop number gets suspended. But we can be fairly confident that will never happen in the US.

One of my scout buddies was a cousin to Florence Henderson and David Cassidy.

Pushing buttons? Well I was either tapping keys or glass! Look, I ASMed a one patrol troop. They still insisted on having SPL ASPL Pl and APL. Aside from that bit of goofiness, they were actually doing pretty good for themselves, and we told them so regularly. Still, when the opportunity availed itself, they opted to merge with a troop that had spun off from them. So, my experience suggests that boys aren't satisfied with being in a patrol if they can be under the same roof with other patrols. Clip-quoting B-P and GBB does nothing to suppress that sentiment. So, applying this to the topic, a one-patrol BSA troop and a one-patrol BSA4G troop might work closely together simply because it's more scout-like being two patrols in a unit than two units of a patrol each.

I'm a little concerned that if snoring becomes a medical concern and one becomes required to address it in order to attend camp, my fellow scouters will banish me to the camp CPAP station! Actually, my observations parallel those of @scotteg83. I think a lot of scouters use summer camp as a way to figure out how to extend their camping envelope given the conditions that they have accumulated. They do that in consultation with their doctors and us. I'm not sure that electricity to the camp site would keep them from innovating, but it would certainly not encourage them to use the week to figure out solutions for the other 12-15 camping nights of the year. That said, one or two campsites where power could be opened for scouts/scouters with medical necessities sounds like a plus. But, I would try to get those stakeholders at the table to determine what they'd really like.

Let's be clear about the double-speak. The buzzword they were attempting to insert was "family accessible" scouting. That was showing up in the CSE's early speeches back in 2015. He confirms this in his latest interview (https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/11/21/bsa-chief-answers-your-questions-about-welcoming-girls-into-bsa-programs/): " I’ll give you just a real Reader’s Digest version of how we got to this point we’ve been on a journey for many years of trying to figure out how do we serve the whole family ..." His point being, that for a growing segment of citizens, if we don't recruit their families, we'll never recruit the boys. The hope (a term of my choosing because all the market research in the world basically builds some hopes and squelches others, but rarely offers certainty) is that BSA4G makes scouting accessible enough to families who would otherwise not enroll their boys in BSA to do so. It's sounds like a long shot, and BSA should say it may be. But, I'm sure the National Key 3 have been told it would be terrible marketing to say flat out "We're gonna recognize girls in our ranks -- if sponsors want -- to help us troll for their brothers." I as a scouter would rather that blunt of a speech. I've made good money on every jalopy that I've sold because I show the buyer everything that's wrong it. I keep being told that's not the way the world works, but I close sales in good time with the dollars I ask for in my pocket, make friends of some strangers, and let the dealers go deal. Oops! I forgot what topic I was in! Anyway, machinations of National has nothing to do with the problem we have of incompetent parents wanting to force their way, untrained and unprepared, into activities boys have arranged.

School may be a factor in some places, but my council made an executive decision that left JOTA with a 26% instead of 25% drop. The general strategy of scouters who donate their own time and equipment to this activity is simple: find where a large number of scouts will be. Set up there. The JOTA set-up generally requires a table and a power source. Rarely does anyone turn them down. Never have I heard of their own council doing it. Like @Tampa Turtle says, they only ask for a quiet corner so they only attract a couple of scouts at a time, but over the course of a day at a busy camporee, those number add up. For anyone with interested scouts with other plans ... If they are at Saturday AM/PM school activities, they could invite a HAM operator to set up at the school. Bring their friends. Out in the middle-of-nowhere? Ask around if any operators have a mobile set-up and enjoy hiking or are willing to arrange a rendezvous point. How middle-of-nowhere can an operator get? Not about JOTA, but I love this story http://kc8qvo.blogspot.se/2008/10/backpacking-in-dolly-sods-wilderness.html (pictures don't load any more, but still a nice blog). Do you really think a guy like this would pass up an opportunity to help scouts like yours get into his hobby?

@RememberSchiff, I think you should also add STEM (or STEAM, since agriculture is now one of the electives?) as a topic tag. It seems to me that any council who promoted STEM Scouts should have herded all of those program participants to JOTA.

Laurel Highlands Council contributed to that drop by denying a scouter from setting up his HAM set at Camp Guyasuta, which was quite busy that weekend. He set up at the parking lot at the scout shop. Instead of hundreds, only a dozen participated.

So, they First joined his troop, then were assigned to patrols. Hmmm ...

I, for one, joined a troop, and was assigned a patrol. It happened to be the same one of the scout who recruited me (best scout I ever met, aged out at 2nd class rank). it was an excellent patrol IMHO. But, its name was not on the youth application for membership. It's flag was not posted beside the US flag at meetings. Nor was it carried in parades. PL's reported their attendance to the SPL, and SPL reported their attendance to the SM or CD with no mention of patrol names. When I was up first staring at ashes, my SPL didn't tell me to wake my PL, he showed me how to light the fire from coals. Did it ever since (well, until the kids started mustering before I did). To assert that either exists for the administrative convenience of the other is folly.

It used to be parents were de facto MBCs ... back when counselor lists were suggestive helps, not exhaustive bounds. Also , substitutions were par for the course. I painted the eaves of the house and replaced a worn crank handle on an aluminum window frame. But, volunteering to spruce up someone else's home is a rewarding strategy. In fact, I happen to know a tired old scouter in a house twice his age on the north side of Pittsburgh ...