qwazse

Answered in an earlier post - situational based on sensitivity to chemicals in the water. My apologies if that makes hair-splitters squirm. Bottom line: the kid's gonna get a patch with the phrase "Be Prepared" emblazoned across its width. If you are sure he will be prepared to jump in and swim strongly whenever the need arises, you're not adding to the requirements. If there's a doubt or reservation, doling out a pass is taking away from the requirements. It's just that simple.

A Car-wash is pretty low front-end. Well suited for high-school youth. Most station-owners are open to loaning their spigots for a good cause.

I dunno @stosh. I trash bag in hand cleans more than a goat in a raffle.

Winds under 50 mph? It's likely to be a great weekend! Seriously, in this case we would advise scouts to dress appropriately for conditions. Bring rain coats/pants and spare dry clothes. Prepare to be chopping wood throughout the weekend. We'd ask them to briefly go over the signs of frostbite and hypothermia. Wind chill is par for the course this time of year. My challenge with my venturers is that I loose track of who's experienced and who's not. They all look ready for anything and act as mature as I do. (That's not saying that much, FWIW.) And they even have the right gear with them, but in a dash out the cabin door, they might forget to don it. But we don't cancel the trip because of the risk of that sort of thing. We check the hazardous weather report a couple of days before departure. That's mainly for driver safety (freezing rain, black ice, etc ...). But, if there are severe storm warnings with high winds (or high winds aloft if this is a mountainous location) that could also factor in. We might even touch base with the ranger who might have to clear roads before folks can come into camp. Too many severe conditions, we consider a delayed departure or a no-go and try to come up with a plan B.

And I'm passing any who can meet the reqs with or without ancillary gear. How do I know they they can pass it without ancillary gear? I have them demonstrate it that way! It might be a bit of an assumption that if they pass without a dive mask, that they could pass it with, but that's not a problem. Because once a kid's a swimmer, his most likely trajectory is to try using different swim/snorkeling gear.

Agree with @EagleDad. In fact, don't be afraid to advertise that during the clinic scouts who bring a blue-card will be able to receive a partial covering requirements x, y, and z and be introduced to a counselor who he and a buddy could meet with to follow-up on completing the badge. For the few scouts who ask "Can I do pre-requisites before the clinic?" you might offer a list of counselors to whom they can bring their blue-card to in advance and get a partial before the clinic start. (Ideally, those counselors will also be at the clinic.) The "day of" goal is getting boys to practice skills that the badge touches on. As a scout I remember being introduced to the controls in vehicles ranging from sports cars to a semi-trailers. Never earned a badge for any of it, but sure had fun!

As one whose council is more contorted after mergers than a PA gerrymander, that there are by-laws and formal agreements that need to be dealt with. Each facility has its own set of obligations. Sometimes they revert back to some donor's estate if council elects not to manage them. So, a council needs to decide what facility it's going to put money in, and which it's going to divest in.

That's where it starts getting nutty. Do we make such a "swimmer" bring a face-mask on a pontoon boat ride? Keep it in his backpack in case we stop at a safe swim area? What if he swims to a floating dock, then drops the mask? The masks fogs and he has to take it off? Or, do we tell the kid, "Let's not pass you right now. But, let's you and me commit to time in the non-swimmers area until you'll be prepared to comfortably go without that mask." What's on that smiley-shaped ribbon floating in that pretty oval patch? It's not "Be Aided".

Only you can answer that. Just like only you can tell if your the same scout mom who asks tough questions on Bryan's forums, or if you just screen-grabbed that pic for your profile! Regardless, welcome! And, thanks for all you do for the boys!

@ValleyBoy, All this means is you have pro-active parents. Now the hard work is to constantly remind them that you want their kids to be as proactive as they are. We're having the same issue.

Here's one: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/council368/General/BSAGuideToSafeScouting.pdf from 2007. It looks like it is not in the new National version. It is in some council description of the swim test. I suspect this is because someone might split hairs about what constitutes an aid. I refuse to split hairs. I'm more concerned with what would maintain my confidence as a life guard. A kid comfortable in his own skin does just that. A kid who needs a prop does not. The pool/lake difference doesn't bug me. (In fact, I don't grudge any kid wanting swim goggles to test in a pool. The chlorine is hard on the eyes.) But, seeing the example of scouts who wanted to practice in the pool to be sure they could pass the test in the lake -- and the subsequent pride when they did -- I support what gives youth the most confidence.

The bigger picture, like @stosh implies, is that a rank, especially second and first class, is not an award for passing a series of tests. It is an award for mastering a set of skills ... skills that imbue confidence that the wearer of the award can hike and camp independently with his mates. Second class - in particular - implies that if the need arises he can hop in deep water and traverse 100 yards to safety. When a leader gives the boy such a patch, he is telling him "I trust you to be able to do this, among other things." This is no joke. One of our crew VPs was an excellent swimmer and sailor -- freshwater. But when she did the swim test in Seabase Bahamas, the deep freaked her out ... she jumped in, but floated there with her knees at her chest. Had she not been a first-class scout (the concept, not the patch) we might have asked Captain to throw a line. But, because we knew her skills, Mrs. Q could swim up and talk her through the fact that yes, there could be any number of creatures below us, but she could relax, kick her legs out, and enjoy a swim regardless. Doing so unlocked a week full of snorkeling and discovery. "He that is faithful in that which is least ..."

I would have never even given such matters a second thought before becoming a crew advisor! Although not about insignia placement, the post and subsequent comments from female leaders on Bryan's blog show how much of an issue this can be https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/10/09/tuck-everlasting-scout-uniform-shirts-should-always-be-tucked-in-bsa-says/.

I think the IG, without saying as much. is trying to give female cub leaders latitude in placing temporary insignia so that it sits at a more-than-equatorial latitude of feminine features. So, IMHO, it's two options for one patch.

Okay, so these aren't straw men. I have never had a problem with counselors who read the reqs literally and only gave a partial blue card. If a growing boy cannot -- after 12 weeks of determined practice -- improve, either he made a lousy plan, did not really execute his plan, or has a disability interfering with muscle growth and tone. If a boy -- after being shown recipes and going over the principles of cooking -- can't make a meal that I'll eat, there's a real problem. Same for communications. I've seen severely learning disabled boys get a point across clearly (sometimes trying to convince us that we should let him cut corners on some requirement), start spouting philosophy, organize a rock band, play violin, etc ...Only one friend -- and him only, a very articulate fellow -- was, unbeknownst to anyone close to him, in danger of his life with the burden of giving a presentation. (He ultimately committed suicide at age 26 of such anxiety.) So, yes, if I sense a boy is like that, I would have his parents hustle him to a shrink and get him a waiver. None of these requirements are something to kill oneself over. I have no problem with an able bodied Life Scout not earning these MBs for one phrase of one requirement standing in his way. He's got a lot to be proud of, why would I ever insult him by being one more adult in his life doling out a pass?

For physical problems ... I've gotten waivers. The scout for whom I got them wasn't exactly comfortable with that, but we faced the harsh reality that anatomically he'd sink like a stone and die according to his physician. The MB straw men are not necessarily equivalent. But, if there's a disability for which I can get a waiver to pursue an alternative badge, I will. Otherwise, I expect counselors to help boys work these requirements to the very best of their ability. This is not a high standard! It's the cooking equivalent of not burning water, or not letting meat spoil. We're not punishing the kid by keeping him at Tenderfoot. We're setting a bar that he can choose to overcome, or not. If he chooses not to, that's okay. He can still run for SPL, earn every MB except aquatic ones, do awesome conservation projects toward a Hornaday award, consider a venturing award. I'm not minimizing how overwhelmingly hard this step is for certain youth (and adults). You can see it in their eyes. And it takes days of committed time helping them desensitize themselves to this sort of thing ... hours in the non-swimmers' section ... getting the student to walking you through his/her head to find out how he/she can tune out fear and tune in action ... Something that maybe nobody else ever did for the student. You wonder if you will ever succeed, but one thing sticks in your mind: There is simply nothing less rewarding to a teenager than one more adult doling out a pass.

By way of fair attribution: Although my style, this was not my idea. The adults who came before me in the troop did this. In particular, one former SM who came to camp for National Inspection and the food (no joke!) led this discussion day 1 of summer camp.

I would like to +20 Fred. Although I do agree that this is youth-led movement, that doesn't create a unified vision. I want parents in a troop to come away with the patrol method. Maintaining that with a diverse group of boys whose other activities invade those evening and weekend slots is the real challenge. So, I want parents to think of ways they can support a patrol (e.g. property to camp on, a favorite trail-head they can car-pool the boys to, a shop where they can work on their Klondike sleds, a business of theirs that could provide raw materials, etc ...) while staying outside of the patrol. I often use the phrase "pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping together with your mates." But, that's usually to try and correct the vision of folks who want to invest extremely in big-ticket scouting (e.g. Jambo's, High Adventure Bases, etc ...), and boys who are so advancement-obsessed that they don't have a good gauge on when they've "arrived" as a scout. Cross-over parents might agree with that vision, but don't have a clue of how to get out of the way just enough to make it happen.

If a scout is totally dependent on his face mask, he's a non-swimmer. Hit the water wrongly, and it's instant racoon-face. Even snorkeling, we put our masks on after we jump in! This is about a 15 year-old overcoming fear to the point that he's comfortable in his own skin. Not about parsing fine lines to find him an "out." One of the reasons why I declined to swim-test scouts in a local pool. Our camp's swim area is in a lake.

There are some articles on Scouting, but most of them are by way of example .. not really setting ground rules. I found the quotes here to be really useful http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm Plus one of my own: "As an adult in a youth-lead movement, I've eaten plenty of burnt grilled cheese. Now it's your turn. You'll be fine." I think with modern scouting, I lean on the Aims and Methods. Especially Leadership Development, and Adult Association to give parents a vision of what we're after. You have to start simply ... Leaders develop while leading ... Boys associate with adults who they know won't take the reigns from them. P.S. - I'm not a fan of Power Point. So, a page of brief notes for a one hour parent meeting (preferably when they are camping with you and most likely to be intrusive on the boys) is my style.

Boys in our troop did just this for a camp-wide raft building competition one summer. Found wood, tarp, and duct tape.

Stacked patrols: At a certain point, a scout is trustworthy. But, yes, it would be nice to have a quick uniform inspection with a large number of points going to patrols who present with flag, patches, and yells. Emphasis on the "quick". You're not looking for alignment of each insignia, but rather to see if these guys look sharp at first glance. Maybe, part of the competition could be to let the scouts who look sharp get started. Those whose members aren't wearing a patrol patch might have to go to a "craft area" and bang out copies before they can leave. If the yell sounds weak/disorganized, they have to come back in 5 minutes with a solid yell before starting. I agree with the reality checks. But, I've seen situations where guys have lined up solid plans and somewhere along the way enthusiasm for it fizzled. Maybe it's a problem that can't be fixed even if you are a cheerleader for those particular guys. But, you really have to take on that role if you want the idea mill to keep popping two years down the road.

Understood! But believe me, it can be the things like this that these boys, once they're older, wind up caring about. If he was in the pack since last fall, make a phone call and do what you can to set the record straight. Besides, knowing your council registrar on first name basis is always good practice.

@MattR, this .... Whatever you do, representing your district ... help your scouters and their scouts make their dreams come true. If one troop comes up with an idea, and another troop is willing to back them, lean hard on everyone else to rally behind their idea. Challenge any naysayers to come up with a better plan for the next camporee. This might not even be someone providing a theme for the entire camporee. But maybe one troop wants to provide some awesome dutch-oven desert for SPL/PL's cracker barrel. Rally everyone around that hour. A troop says they have a bunch of older boys not into competition? Ask them to come direct traffic, form your color guard, lead a scout's own service, or escort parent observers around the grounds.

Good work! And, a big sacrifice on the part of your troop to make things work well for these boys. It sounds like your council took the registration fee for the boy, so absolutely he should be on the pack charter. If they never collected fees from the boy, so that he was somehow dropped from the charter, see what else you can do to set the record straight. It may not matter to the boy now, but talk to your council registrar about the problem and see if you can have the boy's record show that he was a member of his pack continuously from whenever he started to now. This may mean someone ponying up fees in arrears. I've had venturers come to me about maintaining continuous years of service so that any service stars they had would keep counting. (These were youth who were giving back to scouting at a Council or Area level, so they weren't asking their name to idly sit on a roll somewhere. They just wanted to have a "home" crew while their life was quite transient.) I thought they were odd for caring about such things, but what do I know? I helped them keep their paperwork in order. Maybe this scout of yours will never give his years in cubs a second thought. Or if he does, he's not going to worry about what some electronic record says. But, he might be that odd duck who won't report more years in his pack that what council officially tells him. So, ironing out the record now might spare him dealing with glitches later.