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One thing that I did this month, was offer the SPL a guessing game. I put a junk part from an appliance in a box, and the boys had twenty yes/no questions they could ask to guess what was in the box. Once they guessed what appliance the part belonged to, they could open the box and continue guessing what the part actually did. (Fifteen minutes of STEM, check.) The game wasn't the point. The point is, the scouts were to ask questions by patrol. I only let a scout ask a question if he would give his patrol name and the patrol would respond with a yell - which confirmed the patrol had agreed on a question to ask. Don't respond fast enough, the box got passed to the next patrol. That's probably my only patrol method moment for the month. The rest of my time is spent touching base with adults for various paperwork needs or to explain (re-explain) the program to new parents.

Sorry, I got the order of operations muddled. Council reviews the application before arranging the EBoR. We would like to think that in the case of a rogue troop, they'd give National a call before proceeding, but that might not be how it will play out in any given council.

I wrongly called them Girl Scout Mom or Troop Mom because I thought that was their title. I can only guess that I never called them scoutmaster because nobody else called them that. I suspect if I only knew boy scouts, I would have called them girl scout masters. So, what does one do in the position of "master" that they wouldn't as "leader"?

Honestly, I have no idea. But seeing as my positions next year will be troop committee and council venturing committee, I'm trying to get my head around this thing before someone invites me to sit on one young woman's board. According to last night's conversation this doesn't require overthink. In her rogue troop, was a female candidate given a position of responsibility? What did she do in it? What kind of service projects did she do? What project did she plan and implement and demonstrate leadership on? There should be none of this "pretty good, for a girl" or even "admirable, considering the circumstances." We'd be looking for the typical "above and beyond" that we've come to expect in boys who've come up for review. If National approved the application for a EBoR, the question boils down to: were they right to do so? Or, did they miss something? Like you, I am concerned that a scout career in retrospective, without sanctioned reviews at the time, might result in an unreliable review. But, I haven't seen cut-dates and hard deadlines help the reliability of review all that much.

@SSF, don't buy the "insider hype." Maybe they didn't like the turns their characters took, maybe they did. Regardless, Fisher and Hamill were more in their character than themselves. (It's called acting, after all.) I think you'll be pleased with their performances if your sons invite you along. The story line may disappoint, but I don't think the acting or the cinematography will.

I'll rephrase my statement to say that I don't find anything new to be upset about. This film series's religious despondency is nothing new. The SWU has always been devoid of characters who interact with deities on any personal level. Primitives might have gods to placate, or sacrifices to offer. Elites might have a secret element to tap so that they may project their personal power. Nobody in this story has a diety that calls them to account. No angels appear, only ghosts. No Joan of Arc. If there's an anti-religious sentiment, it's against the witchcraft and sorcery that the galaxy of this story seems beholden to. It reminds me of the opening book of Pliny the Elder's Natural History. He critiques how primitive man fashions idols upon which society builds its edifices, then dives on in to presenting Roman knowledge of nature and humanity, ultimately codifying some of the myths articulated by primitives - along with much of the science that in later centuries would be forgotten in the West - but clearly through his personal filters. Thus, his writing becomes a blur of tech, anthropology, and myth not unlike the SWU. It would take his son, Pliny the Younger to actually start dissecting the actual beliefs of the citizens of the empire. But, except for the ravages of Vesuvious, not much of his work is blockbuster material.

Maybe all of those theatre special effects got to me on this track ... I was just thinking about the various BSA and GSUSA leaders and units that I've worked with -- all find people, really. But, they seem to approach things with a different sense of authority. I was wondering how much of that has to do with their titles? Master ... most of us balk at any notion of temporary ownership the boys. We're all about servant leadership. But, there is a sense, in that word, of "possessing traits scouts should emulate." A scoutmaster, is then, a model scout. Someone we should be like, but we're not there yet. Leader ... Is more ambiguous. It's someone we should follow. But, it also has a sense of caretaker. So, you are on a journey with your leader. She gives you a vision, and you implement it together. I've always called GSUSA leaders scout moms or scout dads (yes, I've met one or two) or scout leaders (if they never had been parents) but never scoutmaster. They never disagreed. I've never called a BSA unit leader scout mom or scout dad. I don't think this changed my expectations of any of them. But I wonder if this changed their expectations of themselves.

Saw the film last night. I'm not finding much to be up in arms about. The plot was boiler-plate. I expect the PLO acquaintances I made years ago would relate to these new heroes. I'm constantly reminding my youth that any parallels between "rebel scum" and the US's current sworn enemies is tenuous at best. However, I can imagine that a defeated galactic insurgency would have no choice but to fall back on slow-reacting humanoid troops not really fit for battles in deep space. That's my take on the admiral-dressed-as-ambassador riff. Slick production. The 3D was well used and not overused IMHO. P.S. - I was amused at the use of "dread naught" for a piece of military hardware built for comically absurd offensive abilities but numerous defensive vulnerabilities.

More background: this lot has not experienced an Eagle mill troop. They had a parent who endured icicle eyes from his wife when he said "Make rank or not, it's not my problem. Mine an your SM's job is to make sure you return from each challenge safely. Make a good plan, get support. No plan, no action." They knew "helicopter" and "tiger" parents, but not by those names. Their kids didn't last long in our units, unless they eventually chose the hikes where dad couldn't keep up. My sons spent 3 to 5 times the required period between ranks - always in some position of responsibility, and certainly gave 10-fold the minimum in service hours. Daughter and eventually daughter-in-law pitched in where they were welcome. They mentored dozens of scouts and venturers. The minimums are trivial to them. More importantly: they had boundary issues that would drive the officious batty. Skills were exchanged with scouts and non-scouts alike, and their "real" patrol extended beyond the unit roster. So, you and I and folks on this forum definitely have dealt with high-speed low-drag proponents to the point that we sometimes feel like the odd man out at roundtable. These Eagles have not -- thus their perspective that the meat of the rank is in the mastery of skills and self. The question then becomes, how many former scouts are like that? Have we become victims of our own success so much that these young adults are representative of a people who value recognition citizens based on substance over form? It's about the journey? Well we can't from this side of the Internet know if the journey of a girl who has spent 4 years in a rogue troop gave her skills in and developed leadership better than the boy who worked a two year checklist. Isn't that reason enough to grant an EBoR?

So, I put this to the four twenty-somethings at dinner, seeing as we were dashing out to wait a half hour in line for good seats at the theater, and for the price of feeding them I wanted their opinions for the blogosphere. Two were Eagles, two were never given the chance due to their identity. However, those two didn't peruse awards or recognition in the youth clubs in which they were involved. The following is not my opinion, but reflects what these young adults settled on rather quickly: The consensus: a girl, having mastered skills commensurate with rank advancement and developed leadership, should be granted an EBoR. Her time served and leadership skills developed in a rogue troop should count toward rank advancement. The most recent Eagle was strident that scouters should not make this about time requirements because in doing so, they demean the rank. Earning Eagle was about attaining skills, not marking time. Everyone else supported his assertion. That this might open the floodgates for appeals for Eagle rank retrospectively was immaterial. They had no problem with BSA reconsidering past appeals. Mrs. Q brought up the possibility of law suits, but I reminded them that this is a private organization and the SCOTUS has upheld BSA's rights on these matters. However, the court of public opinion had influenced which rights BSA would excersize in recent years. Note that none of my young adults are currently volunteers or professionals in scouting. These simply have been surrounded by Eagle Scouts for the duration of time in this family. They are likely to volunteer/contribute in the future, and unlikely to join this forum. That's why I figured their opinions might provide insights. Make of it what you will.

@eagle1993 - I'm a guy who votes for candidates by spreading out the campaign fliers on the table and seeing which one has the fewest colors, on the cheapest paper, with least pictures, and most complete scentences ... So I'm not wowed by all this brochure gibberish. I'm not looking for a lot of organization either. Son #1 and I wound up being the only ones taking the nature trail on our time slot. It was a complete waste of camp resources ... one staff for us while rest were being swarmed by the hundreds of other Cubs in camp. But, that young lady was passionate about biology. She was also the first person to introduce me to Venturing (because I naively asked her how she liked Explorers). The other dog-and-pony shows were fine, but the one-on-one encounters determined which camps our kids would regularly return to. I am very attentive to safety - especially in aquatics. If the guards aren't authoritative, they hear from me. Staff don't have to be polished. They just have to be quick to learn and adapt. As for GS/USA camps, five great ones were closed and sold off in our area. A brochure on the last one standing is oh-so-much lipstick on a pig the former leaders who I know. I certainly hope that in other areas there is real substance behind the glossy pictures.

No worries @RememberSchiff and @NJCubScouter, I'm back home where you can see the bitter cold icy ground along with scrap from someone who skidded into the phone pole outside the house! We scheduled our return to Pittsburgh according to this simple quiz: would folks in Erie county be upset if they saw you on the road without your plow/winch/track vehicle/front loader, etc... Yes? Stay home until they stop cussing about the fools out in weather like this. No? Load up the car and make for the lamppost on the southern edge of this Narnia. Likewise @Cambridgeskip, from my time in England decades ago, I've come up with this simple home improvement quiz: Are you British? ... No? Check your R-values against recommendations for your latitude, and having met those, consider a hot tub. Yes? Crikey! Pull the thatch out of the walls and spend some quid on real insulation and triple pane windows! Life made simple by strangers on the Internet!

Holed up with all the kids on Lake Erie ... catching deeper snow in two days than PA has in any other similar period of weather records. Left my snowshoes in Pittsburgh, so I raided the garage for scrap and fashioned a pair out of plywood. You're never too sure how well they work as they sink through two and a half feet of powder. Was about halfway on my route through the woods when FLOP! Well, the good news is that I learned that there was another two feet of snow below the shoes to sink in ... or try to swim up from, depending on your perspective. As my head came up from under the drift, I remembered that my high-tech kit also came with walking poles. Designing from memory, especially one like mine, has its drawbacks. So, I plodded carefully for the remainder of my trek, and stayed fireside since.

I don't know why they wouldn't charge a fee. Just a few years ago, the same type of scout would be promoted to ASM and maintained on the roster in that position indefinitely. No training necessary. When the fee was ~$10, paying for these young adults was a trivial proposition for most troops.

So, in other words, you provide similar content, only diluted by FB's feeble interface and maniacle commitment to oversize adds.

Sounds like you're making this hard. If the fee's a burden for any adult you'd care to keep, find someone who'll pay it for them. Our troop has now decided to pay registrations for any adult volunteers out of fundraising. I disagree with this, so I send a $40 "donation" with my registration. No regrets. You know that this doesn't have to be about college? A guy might be holding down two jobs to support the family while he's an apprentice. You might get as many weekends out of that kind of erstwhile scout as you would out of a scout in college.

IMHO, this position and den chief are ideal for older scouts who want to continue their leadership development but have sort of grown out of life in their patrol. I enjoyed serving in both positions when I was a youth. MC's don't recommend positions, but they could bring the possibility up with the scout on his board of review.

If your asking each of us, that's gonna be harder for some than others! I had an older brother who's SM went AWOL, taking all troop records with him. That was part of our family consciousness, so I went in knowing there was a badge to earn. It became mine to earn at age 12 when I started reading the book and tying the knots therein. Five years of personal growth, and I was ready for my EBoR. Balance? For me, simple: Watch less TV, get more time. Speaking of which, time to stop watching Dr. Who and get out in the snow for a lakeside family portrait.

Not sure how this is different from what is already available.

As meetings accumulate, the question should soon shift from what you can get out of it to what you can put into it.

Merry Christmas all. Blessings. And safe travels. Daughter's flight comes in right after church. Pastor needs a lift to the Airport, so we'll drive him there. And that, Merry Gentelmen, is how you lock in a short Christmas Eve sermon.

The "caving in" started toward the end of the last century, when identity was confounded with achievement: "Boy Scout camping" instead of any camping nights of a large number for camping MB. "Invite a friend" requirement for 1st class ... instead of having a 1st Class Journey to brag about. EDGE method instead of a proper Pedagogy merit badge. A bizarre dichotomy between Ranks and Awards ... rather than seeing ranks as Awards. I could add more, but that speculation on my part takes us off topic. I think Venturing arose partially because boys in troops needed someplace to find their identity away from these self-serving requirements. (Venturing bronze requirements were directed toward serving organizations outside of the crew.) I think Exploring had a similar, but more nuanced, justification for its existence. But, regarding MBC's. It's not on national to enforce their quality. That falls to us via training our fellow scouters at round tables and cracker barrels, training our parents act CoH's and committee meetings, phoning the district when it seems that a scout skated by, etc ...

Welcome to the forums! And thanks for all you do for the boys.

Which brings us back to Bird Study. Coyotes run "fluffy" to ground, more birds come to feed and breed. That may be tough on the inattentive felines, but good news for the smart ones.

There is nothing inherent about MB Pow-Wows (sorry, love that term over University) that would prevent scouters from following the process to the letter. The Pow-Wows that I attended taught me the process. The SM posted the announcement about it on the cork board (which the SPL dutifully announced) we decided to go, I started looking into the requirements for the MB's I was interested in tried out a requirement or two, told my SM, went with my card, met a counselor, partialed, follow-ed up later.