LeCastor

I ask this question because I was reading a 1979 article yesterday in the Scouting magazine archives, and it got my mind thinking about all the thousands of influential Scouters that've come along and helped raise us. This particular article was about a chaplain named Les Shearer. I'd post the link to the article but Google books is missing the year 1979 ☹️

Welcome to the Scouter Forum, @Clstlg! I bet you'll find the answers your looking for here or at least get some solid feedback from the experienced Scouters here.

We all have role models growing up. They can be our parents, friends, or Scouters. Who is your Scouting role model and why?

As I was growing up, I spent many summers in Middle Tennessee with my grandparents. In many ways my grandfather influenced me, especially in camping, hiking, and the outdoors. He took me to buy my first handbook, Bill Hillcourt's Official Boy Scout Handbook, 9th edition. That summer I spent many, many hours reading that handbook and practicing the outdoor skills at my grandpa's cabin in the woods.

Even though I never met Green Bar Bill, he is one of my Scouting role models and I try to model my Scouting after him. For people I have known, my Scoutmaster(s), Den Leaders, and other Scouters have all influenced me in ways I'll probably never fully grasp. 

Thanks to all Scouting volunteers!

Recruiting Boy Scout age youth can be difficult but as everyone above points out, there are definitely ways to do it. There is one Troop in my district that has no Pack affiliation and they manage to keep afloat year and year with fresh, new Scouts throughout the year. It's amazing how well they do with word-of-mouth recruiting from the Scouts themselves. In our school district it's difficult getting into a school to make a presentation or do a Scout talk because the principals limit outside organizations. 

The power of Scouts talking to their friends is truly awesome! 

@Liz, both @FireStone and @WonderBoy make a valid point here. Knives are among the sacred objects of Scouting and I can completely understand the desire to hand down to a son or daughter a cherished tool, like a pocket knife. You could easily have a single knife--your own--as the one your Cubs use to fulfill the requirement in question. 

On a side note, I once stepped in it (royally) when I purchased a Scouting tool for one of the Scouts in my Troop. During a camping trip this young man was showing great interest in fire-building and, as a way to encourage his new skills, I purchased one of those Swedish fire steel tools and presented it in front of the Troop. Within a day I found out from the Scout's mother that he was mis-using the fire steel...in his bedroom. 

I always err on the side of caution when presenting gifts to Scouts. 

Good luck to you!

LeCastor 

@MikeS72, Unit Scouter Reserve is a designation for 18+ year-old Scouters who wish to be registered with a unit but without a specific position, as you state.

The registration fee is as @Treflienne says: $33 + any liability insurance your council may charge. 

This allows a parent or other adult to be a member of the unit and, as a result of registering, requires that person to have the BSA background check. Unit Scouter Reserve members must take YPT. The upside for the Reserve member and for unit JTE is that there is no position-specific training required. 

22 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

It has to start with the vision.

Now we're cooking with white gas!  Thanks, @Eagledad!

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

We broke up the horrible PowerPoint slides with a few pictures of our own experiences. We basically turned the course into as much of a campfire telling stories as we could. The reputation of the course carried far enough that scouters from other districts and councils participated. 

 

I do this, too. So, I'm pretty sure the future of experiential training is, in essence, using the syllabus as a jumping off point and then making the experience unique to the presenters and learners. In my final Scoutmaster's minute on Gilwell Field I expressed to the Troop that our Wood Badge course will never happen again because the course was unique. Each staffer and each learner shaped our course and made it our own. @desertrat77 is absolutely correct that the presenters can make or break the training experience, so District Training Chairs must take this into account and make wise decisions.

12 minutes ago, cocomax said:

The training classes are a good introduction to scouting, but they are only the beginning of the journey.

Yes, I completely agree. There's never going to be one class that makes you an expert, and I really don't think anyone could expect that as an outcome. But the issue I see is that Scouters aren't going to the introductory training "classes." As a result, we don't have youth-facing adults with the base knowledge they should have to effectively deliver the promise of Scouting. The point I'm trying to make is that the introductory training courses could be approached from a more experiential method of teaching as opposed to PowerPoints and videos. 

The fact that you, @cocomax, seek further knowledge and enjoy gathering knowledge around the campfire makes my heart sing. That you appreciate the GBB, too, makes me happy. When I teach Scouters I almost always include a reading by Bill and try to keep his wisdom alive and well. 

So, I think events like University of Scouting, where in-person continuing education is available for all who wish to learn, are invaluable to the formation of a Scouter. But getting people to invest the time for the introductory courses is becoming more and more difficult. How do we change that?

Looking at the photo and the description of the tool, this particular one doesn't appear to include a can opener. You might go to your local Scout Shop and purchase the official Scout knife: https://www.scoutshop.org/bsa-deluxe-pocket-knife-2-1-2-knife.html. As others have mentioned previously, the Bears could take turns using this knife to complete the requirement.

Might you permit me to resurrect this topic?

Training is very near and dear to my heart, as I believe it helps Scouts and Scouters stay on the trail, as it were. However, I have seen a steady decline in the number of Scouters showing up for training despite the plethora of opportunities on the Council and District calendars. Locally, we have so many in-person training opportunities that it tends to confuse people to the point of paralysis and, in the end, no one registers for the classes and, as a consequence, the training opportunities are cancelled. 

I often hear folks say adults and youth are busier today than they used to be. That might be true but I don't think to the extent we make it out to be. We are just so accustomed to the speed of Amazon Prime and similar online things that we expect training to be pre-packaged and one size fits all. Scouters today don't seem to see the value in spending multiple hours in a classroom at the local church basement to receive "training." And I have to admit that even typing the world "value" here makes me shiver because I believe continuous training, or continuing education, should be a given in our avocation of Scouting Service.

Lately, I've been trying to think of ways to revive the desire to go to training opportunities. Our local University of Scouting is always well-attended and that is six full hours of learning. But what I think UofS sells is an "experience" rather than "training." I believe that the words we use are important and it might be that we should be re-wording our learning opportunities and moving away from "training." It appears to me that new Scouters are scared away by the concept of training and that's likely because there seems to be a you-will-do-this mandate from somewhere (National? Local Council?). Youth Protection Training is a given but I think we could do a better job selling "the Why" of training.

If we could make position-specific/outdoor training more of an "experience" than a class...we just might get more people there. As I said in another thread on training recently, it's all in the approach. 

Maybe we could revisit this question. What is the future of experiential learning for Scouters?

Getting back the OP, I think we've established that the BSA doesn't discount the work a Scout does serving on another Scout's Eagle project. There is no double-dipping or double-counting in this case. Service rendered during an Eagle project is service rendered and, therefore, eligible for service hours needed for rank advancement. 

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

P 38 anyone? 

The P 38 is a valuable tool and I keep one on my keyring at all times. However, this doesn't help the OP solve the issue of using a pocket knife with can opener. We would like to steer comments back to the OP rather than veer too far off the rails.

Hi @Mohunter!

I haven't heard of any such policy either. As I see it, if you are doing service, voluntarily, through an Eagle Scout service project that should be considered giving service. Do you think this might have been a policy from your previous Troop?

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Wait...you sullied the sacred grounds of a Woodbadge course with actual youth?  They will possibly gain the secrets of WB; critters, coffee making, silly songs, woggles, handshakes, holy ticket items, tartan plaid, kilts,  and other secret whatnot!!

(actually a great idea, some Woodbadgers I have met seem to begin to feel Scouting would be great if not for all the kids hanging around all the time)

@Jameson76, I know you are being facetious  but as Scoutmaster I was able to select the staff and they shared my vision. Probably I'm not your typical SM based on the negative views of Wood Badge I see on the forum. 

@CodyMiller351, you are welcome to take Wood Badge in Wisconsin if you want to. We'll welcome you with open arms and we won't haze you or shame you in any way.

11 minutes ago, qwazse said:

And along with those traditions is the assumption that new adult leaders can only learn through special classes just for adults, and somehow those classes will help adults get up to speed faster and retain more than the simple-minded pedagogy of an earlier time.

I particularly like the Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills course and eagerly volunteer to serve as an instructor each time it's offered in our council. Two years ago I volunteered to run the course and assemble a staff of talented instructors. At least in my view, that course was very successful because when each Scouter left they left energized, re-engaged, and ready to do some Scouting back home. 

Also, now, in my various Scouting roles, I try my best to encourage Scouts to participate as instructors for whatever I'm organizing from the training standpoint. Youth teaching adults is a powerful thing! If all we have all the time is adults talking to adults about bowlines...we aren't going to do much for @CodyMiller351. But if we encourage Cody to become an instructor and invite the Scouts from his Troop to teach the new adults who don't necessarily know Outdoor Leader Skills we might just get somewhere.

Wood Badge is the same way. As Scoutmaster this year, I encouraged youth to come in and teach several of the sessions. The learners appreciated that! I guess it's all in the approach to the training--teaching and taking.

35 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

 Does anyone know if there is a fund setup for the families?

Yes:

https://www.gofundme.com/chippewa-falls-girl-scout-3055

1 hour ago, KarenZ said:

I think there's a grammatical error is the post from qwaze in "all you all".  "y'all" would be correctly used there.

And the plural of "y'all" is "all y'all".  

I would agree with @KarenZ that AAC has always been a powerhouse and one of the largest councils. That's where I started Scouting in 3rd grade as a Bear in Norcross, GA. 

Yes, this absolutely breaks my heart. These young women had their entire lives ahead of them and were simply doing a Good Turn for their community. it hits me especially hard because this happened in my backyard. 

Thanks to everyone who helped point @shortridge to the universal emblem for online purchase. 

I have one that I got from my Scoutmaster many years ago. It's worn and stained from many a campout; dirt and coffee spills give it character. That patch holds a special place in my heart, especially these past few weeks following the death of one of my Scouting mentors who also happened to be married to my Scoutmaster. I recently sewed this emblem onto an old wool shirt and as I was doing it the sales sticker fell off the back. It was purchased from Maison Blanche, a former New Orleans department store that @Eagle94-A1 will surely remember. 

It's funny how little things like a patch or a sales sticker can trigger so many good memories! I guess it's just part of the magic of the Scouting Movement.

Hi @Summitdog,

I served as a Wood Badge course director earlier this year and I highly encourage you to take Wood Badge when you are ready. If you are interested in knowing more, you may read my biog post about Wood Badge and the reason it exists:

https://scoutlaw.wordpress.com/2018/09/21/so-what-is-wood-badge/

Yours in Scouting Service,

LeCastor 

When I was getting long in the tooth as a Boy Scout our Troop Committee suggested forming a Venture Patrol for the older Scouts. We still came to Troop meetings (occasionally) but we were more focused on doing more "grown-up" things. At this time Venturing wasn't around yet as a stand-alone program. The benefit of having a Venture Patrol in a Troop is the older Scouts still have skin in the game and can be steered toward giving back--to the younger Scouts---what they received at that age.

One of the major issues I see nationally, is that very few people actually understand what Venturing is. As others have said, starting a Crew requires all new leadership, including a Committee. Sure, these volunteers could technically be dually enrolled in a Troop, but to truly do justice to the Venturing program the volunteer leadership (adults) should be focused on the Crew.

When I formed a Crew three years ago I made sure to pitch it to the sisters of the Scouts in my Troop. That way there were others involved outside of Boy Scouting and there was less of a risk of slipping back into Troop mode. Another issue, even with my Crew, is that the Scouts and their sisters never took the time to recruit and just aged as a group of friends. Now the roster is very thin as the original older Venturers are away at college. 

So, @BobWhiteVA, I suggest giving the Venture Patrol idea another go. It doesn't have to be solely High Adventure. Why not build in service and leadership development? At the risk of irritating some on this forum who despise anything from the 1970s ("Improved Scouting Program"), maybe take a look at the Leadership Corps manual if you can get your hands on one? 

But before you do anything else, simply ask the older Scouts what THEY want to do. I hope this helps!

@CodyMiller351, thank you for serving in the role of Assistant Scoutmaster. You have chosen to give back to a younger ones what Scouting gave you. I think you are a rare breed, a fresh ASM who just came out of the youth end of things. @Eagle94-A1 and @Sentinel947 are two of the ones I know best on these forums. They have loads to tell you about serving a Troop as a young ASM and seeing what their Troop was doing incorrectly, from the point of view of Scouters interfering with the Patrol Method, for example. 

@MattR hits the nail on the head when he recommends reading anything by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. Personally, I'd start with the the Patrol Leader's Handbook (1929) and then reading over his 9th edition Official Boy Scout Handbook (1979). Those two volumes are readily accessible on eBay and are well worth the time to pore over at your leisure. 

As for Wood Badge, I echo what others have said. You choose when you want to take it. Please don't let anyone coerce you or bully you into taking that or any other course. As a Wood Badge Scoutmaster myself, I know what I tried to steer our learners to glean from the course--building heart connections, leading by example, and treating others as you would like to be treated. Wood Badge isn't a club, as @cocomax many have said it has become in their locale. Rather, Wood Badge is an experience living in the Troop setting, as a Patrol, learning leadership skills such as listening, communicating, and managing conflict. It's a time commitment and will make you a better leader but only when you are ready to truly commit to it. 

Lastly, adult leader training is only as good as you let it be. If you only boil it down to the PowerPoint presentation on the screen you'll likely walk away disappointed. However, if you listen to the Scouters training you, as @desertrat77 says, you'll learn so much more. Find those veteran Scouters and sit down with them over a cup of coffee, tea, bug juice, or whatever. THAT'S what will make all the difference. 

21 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

There is way too much US and THEM in these conversations. Scouters, professionals and financial contributors all have a significant role in Scouting. I think it is appropriate to thank and recognize them, and frankly a tiny piece of cloth is not a big deal in light of their contribution.

 

 

Yes, I agree with you about the "too much US and THEM" on this forum.  Very often when reading everyone's definitive answers I can't help but think of The Dude's quote from The Big Lebowski: "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."