LeCastor

I thought it might be a good idea to post some resources on here that might help us inform our fellow Scouters how best to let the Patrol Method/System run rather than trying to run the Patrol Method/System.  

This one is from our Canadian friends at The Dump.  

Patrol System.pdf

In my first days as Scoutmaster many years ago, there was a tendency to have all Scouts in the Troop sit around a table and be lectured by an expert.  The goal was to earn Merit Badges during Troop meetings.  The Scouts were bored, as many here have stated from their own experience, as well they should have been.  These young men sit through school all day and then come to a Troop meeting only to have more lessons?  I explained to the Troop Committee that I didn't want to see this anymore and one MC asked, "But when are they supposed to earn Merit Badges?"  Well, on their own time, I said.  They can do that at Summer Camp, on Saturday, tomorrow night, etc.  

As an aside, I also suggested that the Troop meetings take place outside during summer months (it's cold the rest of the time here ) and they Troop Committee thought I was nuts.  "Why should we sit out here when there are tables and chairs inside?"  Oh brother...

38 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 Any way you could scan those into pdf format and make them available? Bill's writing style made you want to read the books. The current style makes the BSHB boring.

Sure thing!  I'll just have to get to the public library.  I'll upload as pdf to the topic Patrol Method/System Resources ASAP. 

At a local council-wide (might have been mine) training event last fall a Scouter (might have been me) facilitated a 50-minute discussion on what the Patrol Method is and what it isn't.  As far as I can tell, it was well received and ~20 Scouters and one Scout were engaged and eager to know more about how to use this Method in their respective Troops.  I think we'll just have to be the individuals, Patrol Method 'champions' in our respective spheres of influence.

Thank you, @T2Eagle, for bringing up this topic.  It has been a good and interesting discussion.  We've determined that Youth Protection Training is important for both the youth and adults, yet it is clear there are fuzzy areas where it seems to be a judgement call.  If you feel you'd like to know more about the BSA's YPT or have questions or desire clarifications, it would be wise to contact your District Executive.  

22 minutes ago, MattR said:

I just submitted a request to Boys Life to start that up again. I told them I knew some people that could write the columns. We'll see!

Thanks, @MattR!  I hope you'll let us know what you hear back!

Also, these Boys' Life reprints of Green Bar Bill's articles are pure gold.  I'm lucky to have found them in our Troop storage closet where they had been languishing for far too long.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

The future struggle of Patrol Method is evident just in the discussion.

Can a group of youth grow from their experience of working together? Of course, I have experienced it as a youth and monitored it as an adult. But in both experiences, I know what I was looking at, and looking for. I'm not sure the BSA can do much toward encouraging Patrol Method practice to future generations that haven't experienced it, much less know what it looks like. Books! I've suggested on this forum many times to letting scouts run their patrols using only the BSA handbooks, only to be judged as an adult telling scouts what to do (I guess because the books were written by adults).

 If adults here don't trust the handbooks (and why are they even in the BSA), then how can we hope for some kind of national consistency of applying Patrol Method.  Probably 50% of my posts on this forum  go toward balancing theories of applying Patrol Method. For example, I am amazed at the pontification just for how scouts should select their leaders.  If the adult has that much invested just for leader selection, imagine their struggle with the rest of a scout's experience.  The guidelines for selecting leaders are clearly given in their handbooks. 

I just don't see how the BSA can bring the adult membership as a whole together on Patrol Method without some great effort at a national level. And since Patrol Method isn't viewed as political, I don't see National giving it a lot of attention.

Barry

Thanks, Barry.  All good points.

And, yes, I think we do need a national figure head to give guidance to Scouters on how to ensure the Patrol Method is properly utilized in their respective Troops.  Maybe he/she could write monthly articles in Boys' Life lifting up the Patol Leaders and encouraging Scouts to make the most of their Patrol fun and adventure.  Wait, this sounds like a familiar concept...

Fifty-ish years ago we spoke of the "environmental crisis" and most seemed, at least, to admit there were significant issues that needed to be tackled from the ecological standpoint.  Most were familiar with Rachel Carson's Silent Spring and Dr. Barry Commoner's Closing Circle, both dealing with the ill effects of anthropogenic, huma-caused, factors.  In fact, if you go back and read the Scouting literature of the 1960s and 1970s, you see this concern for bettering the environment spelled out in no uncertain terms.  Take, for example, the article below from the December 1969 issue of Scouting.  The language was strong and led Scouts to want to do something about the crisis.  Richard Nixon, who brought about many federal responses to the betterment of the environment, reached out to the BSA to request a helping hand.  Hence the 1971 Conservation Good Turn, later Project SOAR (Save Our Air and Resources).

We still have an environmental crisis today yet the language is not as dire in the literature.  What happened?  Even our beloved Green Bar Bill didn't mince words when he wrote "[t]he voices of warning went unheeded for a long time. But other voices were being heard. Today every intelligent person realizes the importance of conservation" (pg. 323, The Official Boy Scout Handbook, 9th ed. 1979).

Surely we can do more in 2018 as far as conservation is concerned.  There is still an environmental crisis that needs to be addressed; we didn't fix that with a couple of Earth Day occurrences.  So what about a revitalization of the 1971 Conservation Good Turn, our Project SOAR (Save Our Air and Resources)?  Would a SOAR 2.0 be a good idea?  What are you and your Scouts doing to tackle the issues of clean air and water?

Thanks, @Cambridgeskip.  Actually, we've got family based near London these days, so it would definitely just be a side trip.  I like that you are trying manage expectations, though.  

I always stress that EVERY member of the Patrol should have a job/role to fulfill/play.  If everyone is engaged then no one is sitting on the bench feeling left out.  The PL should ensure every member of his Patrol is valued.

56 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Ya, but you're standing on "hallowed" ground.

Exactly! 😎 🇬🇧

34 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Ohh, my (not so) inner Scout nerd is going bananas.

I would LOVE to make that trip.

Let's do it!

I agree that the "separate accommodations" rule was violated.  And I would support @4CouncilsScouter's "Route Two," especially stressing the fact that you'll work with the Scouter in question to avoid further infractions...

My understanding is that there must be separate accommodations for co-ed overnighters and that no adult should share a tent with a youth other than their own child.  As for the situation you describe, was the adult closed in a room in a one-on-one contact-type encounter with any youth?  If there were multiple youth around in that room I think it's kind of a grey area.  

I would think seriously about reporting any individual unless you are absolutely sure this adult was violating the space or rights of the youth.  

Well, @jjlash, I say make your fees as transparent as possible and give the learners all that they deserve!   

Thanks, @gblotter!  I know that the standard operating procedure for many Troops is to ask a landowner what needs doing.  However, I'm hoping some Scouters out there might have ideas that they present TO a landowner.  The BSA's Conservation Handbook recently got a makeover and is pretty good, in my opinion.  

If you make training free then some part of the Council's operating budget has to make up for the costs of the items mentioned above.  When Friends of Scouting campaigns come up short, where do local councils make up the shortfalls?  

Free sounds like a good incentive, but in reality I don't know that it works with our current framework.  Online training, notwithstanding.  

Also, regarding online training, I agree it can be more convenient for the average Scouter in today's fast-paced world   However, I often, as a trainer, stress that one of the most important things you learn from an in-person event is what you get from the give-and-take with other Scouters.  When we are face-to-face in a "classroom" we do, in fact, get more than what the video tells us online.  

I prefer in-person training, personally, but I understand the need for and desire for online versions.  

@jjlash, to answer your question, I have served on, or directed, many different training events from Scoutmaster-specific to Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills (IOLS) to Wood Badge.  The fee I charged always fit a budget I came up with to 1) cover materials, i.e. booklets, manuals, 2) food, and 3) facilities rental.  At no point was I asked to make a profit for the council/district, for what that's worth to your question.  

Just like in the professional world, an employee shouldn't be floored by a poor performance review which seemingly comes from out of the blue.  Rather, a supervisor should coach/mentor an employee such that poor reviews aren't necessary.  Likewise, a Scoutmaster should coach/mentor the Eagle candidate.  I would highly recommend, as I said before, suggesting the Scoutmaster meet with the candidate sooner than later to share his/her concerns.  The Eagle candidate shouldn't arrive at the Eagle Board of Review and get blindsided.  

As a somewhat humorous look into past concerns regarding Eagle candidates, I share with you this letter from the Jan/Feb 1970 issue of Scouting: 

"At our last Eagle board of review, a candidate appeared who presented unconventional views on life in general--government, education, personal rights, etc.  And, although dressed neatly in proper uniform, his hair was of abnormal, almost shoulder, length.  After much discussion and probing with this young man, we decided that despite his unconventionality we could not condemn his viewpoint.  Most of us found him to be otherwise a well-qualified candidate of fine individual worth.

However, we delayed making a decision and asked him to return because we can't agree on the effect his appearance might have on others.  We wonder what Scouts and adults will think who see him receiving Scouting's highest honor and yet are not award of his personal qualifications.  We have sought outside counsel, and reaction is mixed there too.  Many feel the boy's appearance reflects his unacceptable thinking and is bad for Scouting.  Many are noncommittal.  Right now I don't know what to do.  Certainly, this problem has been encountered in other councils throughout the country--and we may encounter it again.  Any suggestions?"

8 hours ago, Stosh said:

Seriously.... One of the things that BSA might want to consider along the way is a defensive driving course for volunteers just like YPT.  Yes there's danger involved with not having YPT, but the way some of these scouters drive with other people's kids concerns me.

 

Something like this?

@robert12, I would strongly suggest you contact your District Advancement Chairperson to get a better handle on this situation.  Personally, I would hate to see the Eagle candidate miss his opportunity to "fix" what his Scoutmaster and, potentially the District Eagle Coordinator, find unsatisfactory regarding the candidate's project and, apparent, lack of leadership.  In theory, the District Operations Committee (a/k/a District Committee) should have an advancement chairperson who reports to the District Chair.  Also, your District Commissioner and District Executive can give guidance.  If those folks can't help, your local Council Service Center should be able to point you in the proper direction.

I hate to speculate, but I would presume that, following what you've shown from the Guide to Advancement, the Eagle candidate would have the one shot and one shot only.  To your knowledge, has the Scoutmaster spoken with the candidate and the candidate's family about this?  Why escalate the issue when it might be mitigated before moving to "disputed circumstances"?

Thanks, @Cambridgeskip!  That's very helpful. 

@Stosh, as an ADC, I have made this argument to Troop Committees and Scoutmasters who ask me about how to conduct elections for SPL.  When I tell them their Troop might be too small to even need an SPL they look at me like I have 5 eyeballs.  They could easily have two Patrols, each with a PL, and no SPL at all.  Usually, the units go ahead and elect an SPL who acts in the capacity of PL over 12 Scouts...