LeCastor

31 minutes ago, MattR said:

But getting back to getting the scouts to get this. The "administrative unit" view of the patrol is so far from the goal. My view is the PL needs to own the decisions that make scouting what it is. They decide what fun is, they look out for their patrol members, they have to care. So my question has always been how do we get their heads wrapped around this idea. I'm not even suggesting they need to succeed, just that they know what the goal is. They all see the administrative view. I ask because I think this is an important part of the patrol method weekend training and I really have no good answer.

We might be able to solve two problems at one time here. By encouraging our Scouts to invite their non-Scout friends to visit, and then join, the Troop, we could 1) grow Scouting and 2) show Scouts they are leading their own buddies and doing fun things with the people the know they already like and mesh with.

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

I would love to hear if any of you succeed in having your scouts take up the challenge of stowing their packs in their locker/band room, grabbing them after the game and night-hiking a mile or two into some back-nine camp spot for the evening, so that they are on-site and ready to go the next day. That is how patrols become best buddies.

Encouraging Scouts of the sports ball team/band to join the same Patrol might just get them out on Friday night after the game. Peer-to-peer encouragement is a powerful incentive: eg. If Travis is going then I should go, too!

54 minutes ago, qwazse said:

So, instead, we are asked to train youth to be administrative units. Either they are parts of the Friday Night Lights menagerie or they are convenient ways to be divided and conquered by adults. The vision of hiking and camping independently with your mates is summarily suppressed.

I think this is the problem. We tend to spend too much time trying to divide and sub-divide the Scouts into convenient categories--new Scouts, old Scouts, intermediate Scouts--and don't encourage friends to form a group they want to spend time with. 

You know, I still camp and hike with members of my childhood Patrol.  

As I plan ways to encourage more effective use of the Patrol Method on a local level, I have been thinking a lot about how Scouts are introduced to the idea of a Patrol. Naturally, new Scouts learn quite a bit from other Scouts and the Scouters in their Troop, but the Boy Scout Handbook is also a handy go-to resource. Scouts and Scouters, both, should read the Handbook to learn as much as they can about the program and the game of Scouting. 

Though, the depth with which the newest Handbook, the 13th edition, dives into the Patrol concept is very shallow when compared to, say, the 9th edition from 1979. Green Bar Bill, not surprisingly, commits seven pages to the Patrol structure with the following sub-topics:

• Patrol Name
• Patrol Flag and Emblem
• Patrol Call
• Patrol Leader
• Patrol Doings
• Patrol Meetings
• Patrol Hikes and Camps

Reading the text is tantalizing:

"A patrol is a team. All the members play the game of Scouting. All of you work toward the same goal. All of you have a wonderful time. In the patrol, you learn what fun it is to plan exciting things to do with some of your best friends...to hike and camp together...to sing and laugh together homeward bound from a strenuous hike or around a flickering campfire...to work together to meet the tests that will carry all of you onward and upward in Scouting." (pg. 12)

Now, the 13th edition commits a mere two pages and spends a significant portion discussing the different breakdowns of the "kinds of Patrols." Whereas the Patrol to Green Bar Bill is a group of "best friends," the newest description is about segregating by classification. 

In essence, Bill makes you feel like you're already on the camp or hike around a fire with your buddies. The 13th edition simply ticks off a box about the Parol and moves on. Is this the effect of the short attention span culture we are cultivating? Boys' Life and Scouting skimp on much depth these days, too. 

@Buggie, this certainly appears to be an intense camporee! The newsletter/program guide (in attachment) is huge and full of photos. 

My concerns are: 

1) Do youth have any planning in this event? It looks very polished, which is likely because it's been going on for 42 years.

2) Is there any incentive to have Patrols work together on anything? I see a lot of mention of Troops but nothing about Patrols.

Perhaps you could clarify since you've been before and have experience. I worry sometimes when I see elaborate camporees that don't have youth involved in the planning and don't focus on the Patrol during the events.

Looking forward to hearing more!

2019-Trappers-Herald-c-1.pdf

If anyone ever asks you what it takes to be a good Patrol Leader, you should show them this page from Green Bar Bill's 1929 Handbook for Patrol Leaders.

Welcome, @Jeff1974, to the Forum!

Welcome, @RankinFL, to the Forum! Please do give us a little more information so that we might better serve your needs. Thanks!

44 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

I like the idea of "the whole troop" event as a follow up, the curriculum could then focus on establishing the other patrol members roles and responsibilities within the patrol method. 

Perhaps the Green Bar Leadership Experience in the spring with PLs and SMs. Then, a Green Bar Bill Camporee in the fall? 

This'll give me a lot to do and think about over these short winter days! I love it!  

5 minutes ago, ValleyBoy said:

Being from the south what is a quinzee, to lazy to google search.

Here's a nice look at the quinzee from the pages of Boys' Life:

https://boyslife.org/outdoors/outdoorarticles/2992/how-to-build-a-quinzee-snow-shelter/

Welcome, @Jahaza , to the Forum! Let's build a fire, warm up over a cup of hot chocolate, and talk about Scouting! (You don't have to sleep in the quinzee.  )

3 minutes ago, cocomax said:

What if the whole troop went?

How about a special Green Bar Bill Micro Camp-O-ree?

What if you had a weekend at a scout camp were several whole troops went to the camp, taking their own gear.
Send each troop an informational packet on the Green Bar Bill method of scouting and what the weekend is all about and make sure they are on board with the idea.

What if you had a Green Bar Bill expert embedded with each troop couching the scout master and SPL.

What if you had an afternoon of scout games for the patrols to have fun as patrols.

Have an amazing campfire planed by the scouts,  plus you could have the Green Bar Bill experts point out what was done right, maybe even give out a few awards.

All the adult leaders that went to this event should have a meetup at a later time (after the event)  and talk about their experiences as scouters and learn from one another. 

  

Yes, I would love to do that and I think the event I'm planning is a lead-up to a larger scale event like you describe. 

29 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

Thanks for sending the draft outline. I look forward to seeing the SM schedule of events. I wonder if you have considered and are incorporating towards the end a time for the PLs and SMs to discuss and reflect together to summarize a shared understanding and create a positive path forward.

DuctTape, that's a fantastic idea!

There has to be a way to make sure the PLs and SMs are on the same page. That's one of the major reasons for conducing this whole event in the first place. 

47 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

We humans tend to turn off our when we scolded. 

Quite right, @Eagledad! 

I didn't intend to shake my finger and give these Scoutmasters a tongue-lashing. Rather, I thought it might be a good idea, at least, to highlight some of the common issues while emphasizing the positives of the Patrol Method. I appreciate your point and will definitely take that into consideration when working out the adult portion of the GBLE.  

I envision Scoutmasters doing similar activities to the youth. However, courses of instruction would likely aim to address some of the common pushback to Patrol Method I hear from Scouters:

"We just make Patrols up each outing because it's easier." --> avoiding the ad hoc Patrol.

"We don't have time to do Patrol meetings and they aren't important anyway." --> giving responsibility to the Scouts to plan their program.

Some Scouters don't see the inherent value of giving responsibility to the Patrol Leaders. What you end up with is partial results...(I'm paraphrasing B-P here...)

I have been toying with the idea of proposing a learning opportunity for new and seasoned Patrol Leaders, called the Green Bar Leadership Experience, to be held in camp using the outdoors as a classroom and introducing skills-oriented team-building activities. My vision for this is that it would be a pre-NYLT experience and would incorporate a separate--yet simultaneous--experience for Scoutmasters. 

This Green Bar Leadership Experience would take place in the spring and last for a day and a half in camp, building on ILST, and paving the way for participation in NYLT.

Attendees would be Patrol Leaders and their Scoutmasters. On Saturday morning the PLs would be broken up into Patrols for fun learning activities and, at the same time, Scoutmasters would be taken through an intensive course of instruction in the Patrol Method. Patrols would be asked to cook Saturday dinner and Sunday breakfast and would be tasked with planning a fun campfire program for Saturday evening. 

The entire weekend would be based on the teachings of William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt and graduates of the experience would earn a special pocket patch incorporating the green bars of a Patrol Leader. I do have a draft proposal and I'd be willing to share via PM, if you like. 

So...thoughts? Worth it?

I ❤️ Woodruff Scout Reservation so much! 

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One of these days I'd like to do the Okpik camp at Northern Tier...Also, I ran across this while researching winter camping schools:

http://www.bullmoosepatrol.com/bmp/2014/12/24/bsa-winter-camping-school-hypothermia

I interacted briefly with this man from the Bull Moose Patrol at Madison's annual Canoecopia event--paddle sports oriented. Seems like legit outdoorsman.

2 hours ago, MattR said:

Okay, @LeCastor, that is a brilliant idea. That should be put in a list of great and really different ways to engage scouts.

Well, thanks you, MattR!  

I have to laugh...When visiting the Council Service Center the other day, I was approached by the manager of our Scout Shop. "LeCastor, look!"  She handed me the new "classic" red-topped socks and said, "I thought of you immediately!"

They know me so well...

When I initially saw this Scouting article earlier in the year, I thought to myself, "Wow, this is ME in 30 years!" 

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2017/02/one-veteran-scouters-tips-getting-scouts-hooked-nature/

During IOLS courses, I ask Scouters to take a walk for about 15 minutes and find something in nature that interests them. Then, I ask them to "tell us the story" of that thing. The results are always spectacular! One time, a Scouter wrote a poem about a shelf fungus she found on a tree. Another Scouter found deer sign and told a beautiful story about the changing of the seasons.

If the Scouters don't know what something is, I always have guide books handy and encourage these adults to look the tree, animal, or insect up in order to learn. This is a skill we should all instill in our youth, too. Learning to see nature and understand it through storytelling and through inquiry is, in my opinion, one of the most valuable teaching methods.

10 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

I would GLADLY show this to any Scouter, whether old and seasoned or fresh and new.

Good! I'm glad to hear it. While the video is very dated, the ideas don't change. That's really the beauty of the Patrol Method, in my opinion. If we simply allow the Patrol Leaders to lead the Troop, then things will work out and there will (hopefully) be much less drama. My biggest difficulty as Scoutmaster was convincing the parents that the Scouts were the true leaders of the Troop. It was a constant battle...Maybe Scoutmasters could show this video to parents at an annual Patrol Method refresher cookout in the backyard?

@Jameson76 and @MikeS72, I grew up in the South and camped in what I thought was winter only to move to Wisconsin years later and get the true winter experience. My first Troop was in Peachtree Corners, GA--in the Atlanta Area Council--and we would go on a few overnights where the temps would reach into the 40s. Then, we moved to Harvey, LA--in the New Orleans Area Council--and the majority of our camping trips were in Southern Mississippi. We backpacked on the Tuxachanie Trail once and I woke up with frost on the hood of my sweatshirt and everyone freaked out.  

@The Latin Scot, I have a Marine veteran buddy who did mountain warfare training in the mountains in California. He has some awesome stories of truly cold temperatures! His NCO dug a hole in the snow and cooked his dinner over a fire...all while only wearing his boots and boxers.  

Our council here in Wisconsin has now held two winter Wood Badge courses and I camped out in my tent for both of them, while the majority of the learners and staffers stayed in cabins. One of the staffers said, "Wow, LeCastor, you don't have to be a bada$$ all the time!" Coming from seasoned Wisconsinites I felt like I had earned my stripes.

When I was Scoutmaster of a Troop here in WI, we often did winter outings and I always encouraged the Scouts to sleep in their tents or make quinzees. One Scout--who is now a Marine--dug out the quinzee and "slept" in if for about an hour before he joined his Patrol mates in the warm cabin.  

Here is a memorial tribute I wrote about a Scouter who influenced me greatly. She died unexpectedly about three weeks ago at the young age of 54:

https://scoutlaw.wordpress.com/2018/10/27/she-gave-her-time-so-that-i-might-learn/

Ok, it's chilly out (in some parts of the U.S., like Wisconsin  ).

Do any of your Troops/Crews have any winter camping trips scheduled? Where do you go? What kind of preparation do your Scouts/Venturers take part in prior to heading out into the frozen tundra?

No, these summers were at my grandpa's cabin on Tims Ford Lake. As a Scout I spent one summer at Skymont Scout Reservation with my Troop.  Never made it to Boxwell, though my mom wishes she had had the opportunity to go with her friends from school.