John-in-KC

I like what Brent, Barry, and Lisa all said. Lisa...I think the best solution for the young man you describe is to have folks invite him to church. I can see the confusion... high liturgy appeals to my sense of awe, but not everyone's. Christianity (which I presume the Scout is talking of) is a pretty big tent in worship styles ... he needs to go someplace enough that he understands the externals, and then he needs to look into internals. That last can apply to any faith grouping Scouting supports.

Brent, You're right. Had not seen that before. My error, in that it is truly OK.

Brent, You absolutely need the CC/COR at your back, or the sonofagun will undercut you. It may not be at the meeting place, but folks like this... well, sad that they do these things.

Welcome. Same question as Scoutldr. If you are anyone other than the COR, CC or SM, this is not your business, rather it is theirs. First, I will presume no one has yet had a friendly or businesslike talk with Mr ASM. That should be Mr SM, as he is Mr ASM's volunteer supervisor. CC should have SM's back. If those conversations have not happened, then they need to. If they work, problem solved. If they don't work, next layer up is bring IH/COR in ... and have them send the message that ASM works for the SM, and his service depends on SM primarily but CC recommending continued service. If the message still doesn't sink in, then SM/CC have business meeting with COR/IH and ask ... - That ASM be told he's no longer welcome in the facility of the Chartered Partner. - That Council be notified that ASM is no longer welcome in Troop ABC. OR... if recharter is near: - ASM be told his membership will not be renewed by (Chartered Partner name here). Those are the mechanics. What's really going on?

withdrawn(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

It's a temporary, as far as the insignia guide goes. If your Troop has non-standard customs, like the back of the MB sash is your own space, then that's your own decision. For years, I have patches like this on my backpack...

As I recall, more than a few of these zero tolerance policies (but not all) have backing in various State or Federal laws following Columbine. It's real simple to me: If you don't like the policy, work to change it. That usually means getting onto a Board of Education. Principals report to District Superintendents... who report to the Board, and in all but a few cases, we the people elect the Board.

"scoutlder" said: From reading this forum for the last several years, and reading Scouting magazine and Boys' Life, I can only come to the conclusion that proper uniforming is MUCH more important to us than it is to the BSA. Frankly, I think you're right. If you look at one metric, and one only... the resources devoted by National, Regions, Areas and Councils to uniforming, you're going to find the printed resources are pretty slim: The Uniform and Insignia Guide, assorted inspection sheets, and mentions in various program materials... usually under the Uniform Method for Cub and Boy Scouting (remember... uniform is not a Method of Venturing). When it comes to people, we have National Advancement Committees, Council Exec Board Activities Committees, District Camping Committees, all of which are reinforced by manpower from the Commissioner's Service. Do we have a Council Uniform Committee? No. What about District Uniform Operations Committees?No. Commissioners, if invited to, may conduct an annual uniform inspection. Now, does National devote resources to protecting the brand name and image of Scouting? You bet your bottom dollar. Even there, though, it's hit or miss. Think of the Commish lady on Survivor, and about how we thought of her? (Even there, she cleared it through her SE as I recall to National in advance). Think of that guy on "Deal or No Deal." Think of the various licensure of Scout symbol debates we've heard of ... My assessment: The senior Commish and the higher Professional staff think there are bigger fish to fry.

When Trevorum and I were kids, there was an annual Scoutcraft Fair (later Scout-o-Rama) held at Devonshire Downs in the San Fernando Valley. We got stuff for selling tickets from Council. For years I had a 4 D cell BSA flashlight

An aside... Dean, til mid-November I am on a full reverse cycle, either 5PM-5AM or a b shift, 3PM to midnight. It's the nature of my current employment in defense contracting. MU-NU: A mature team deals with one mistake, and does not let it become a cascade. That's what happened Thurs night. That said, right after the 12-0 FG, EagleSon was on ESPN for all to view ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Returning to the issue at hand, This is not an easy one. Like so many, including Lisa, it should not be an inquisition. Like Beavah, there's a lot of adult-adult conversations which need to happen before an Eagle app gets presented. One thought I'm having is maybe this particular young man needs some "away from the Troop" mentoring, under 2 deep, such as breakfasts where adults and kid can talk without confrontation, at least for a while. I think there's a good chance the youth is just without any footings in faith, and "atheism" is his label. If that's true, it's time to give him some trails to explore. Now, if he understands the meaning and declares himself an atheist, with a faith underpinning that concludes there is no god, then the road gets very complicated for his Scouting. Keep talking to us, please...

Funny, I thought the Old Testament was written by Hebrews across a few millenia. I thought the New Testament, as settled at various councils by the 4th Century AD, was written by 1st century AD men of the Lord, including John, an apostle, Paul, an apostle (although a special case as defined in Acts), Peter, an Apostle, Luke, a physician... ... all under the authority and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. That these men are members of the catholic (small c, not denominated) Church militant I will not dispute. If anyone claims them strictly for the denominated capital C I will dispute it all day. It took centuries for the organizational church to develop.

LL, Good on you!!! Would recommend you encourage Dad to have a friend, perhaps even Mom (I know, been there, done this myself) who could provide guardian-like coverage for events when he's on shift. That way son can attend. One of the key things of Tiger is building the 1/1 parent-kid bond. That way, you're helping him find a solution, vice just saying he's a problem.

I also heard our trade deficit was lower because we are not importing nearly as much oil. Of course, none of this helps the folks in industries in your neck of the woods Lisa. I also thought you had discovered a new BSA award: The Silver Lining (duking and running)

kittle, I think you have a legitimate question. I think you should ask your COR for a business meeting with the Scoutmaster and Committee Chair. Ask them to explain their logic in detail. Quietly but firmly insist on an explanation. If you can get to common ground with them, such that they will have a follow-on SM conference and non-advancement Board of Review, all is well. They owe your son the reasons for a "not yet" advancement. If he (or you) think they are unfair or out-of-line, there are ways to ask "what's going on" up the line. Caution, though: Pulling the trigger on an appeal short of Eagle may well "poison the well" with the adults of this particular Troop. You want to thnk this through with great maturity, for his sake. By asking for District intervention, you will make the lives of SM, CC, COR, and Advancement person more than a bit uncomfortable. Pull this trigger with great maturity.

With soft drinks the kids are carrying water in. With dry mixes, the kids can mix up, and still get sugar carbs. Cocoa has caffeine too, as does tea/honey. Both have a bit less than soft/energy drinks, though. There are plenty of sweet desserts (brownies come to mind, as does cobbler) they can make to satisfy sweet tooths. I guess what I'm saying is you can challenge the youth, get to the Outdoors method, and still give them sweets. I understand both the zipper and the boot rules, heck, they are part of my own regimen in my own personal hooch.

Indeed, teaching them to honor the Flag by doing is part of the fun of it!!

Welcome to the campfire. Not an easy issue, and you're right to have a matter of conscience about it. One of the things Dean says is true: If you've not observed the Scout discuss an atheist viewpoint, you don't have first-hand knowledge. Now, if you do have first-hand knowledge, you have a bigger challenge. You'll need to visit with your COR. That visit probably needs to be together with your Scoutmaster. The two of you have to be on the same sheet of music, indeed, have each others' back. A bad CC/SM relationship does not help the Troop. You'll also need to visit with the District Advancement Chairman. You did not say how your District does Eagle Boards... unit composed, district guest or district composed iwth maybe unit guest? Certainly, I'd make sure the DAC understand the need to check the Faith reference on the Eagle app. In my book, you not only sign the app, you also are the guy who chairs this particular BOR. Finally, take this back to your own District and Council Commissioner staff. See how things have been handled locally before. Regardless, I think you and the Scoutmaster having a common vision and goals is essential. You need to have each others back, and not have even the appearance of undercutting each other.

From BSA #34427, the Unit Money Earning Application: "Please submit this application to your council service center at least two weeks in advance of the proposed date of your moneyearning project. Read the 10 guides on the other side of this form. They will help you in answering the questions below." 6. If a commercial product is to be sold, will the fund-raising activity comply with BSA policy on wearing the uniform? The official uniform is intended to be worn primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities. However, council executive boards may approve use of the uniform for any fund-raising activity. Typically, council popcorn sales or Scout show ticket sales are approved uniform fund-raisers. 7. Will the fund-raising project avoid soliciting money or gifts? The BSA Rules and Regulations state, Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events. For example: Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts and leaders should not identify themselves as Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts or as a troop/pack participate in The Salvation Armys Christmas Bell Ringing program. This would be raising money for another organization. At no time are units permitted to solicit contributions for unit programs. Here's a link: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf

CRW, Given what you just said, I think it's time to call a non-advancement BOR. I'd talk with your IH, but it may be time to send a clear message that his participation in your Troop is a question mark ... from the Troops' perspective. Keep us informed, please

For those up in the NE: The news I see on google says this is close to open and shut. You've got more news closer. What's your read?

Pack, At least you have the Braves. I have the Royals and the Chiefs. ... and people wonder why I'm so passionate about the Mizzou Tigers ...

I don't know the nature of the wounds. I know the ratio of other people taken out of the role of using weapons when there's a wounded man, vice when there's a dead man on the battlefield. Frankly, enemies prefer to wound rather than kill... it takes more enemy guys out of the firefight. A good commander orders his wounded troopers evac'd. Get them recovered, get them returned to action. OBEDIENCE has to be part of this conversation as well, as does HELPFUL. Are you contributing or detracting from the mission with your bravery? The only ethic which matters in battle is mission accomplishment. The only limits to the ethic are those in the Law of Armed Conflict.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Yes, we are telling you that if the activity is in Scoutings' prohibited lists, then your parish should not force your Scouts to do it. It's called TRUSTWORTHY and LOYAL.

Invite older men of the community, who were Cub Scouts in the day, to dinner. Invite your OA Lodge dance team to perform. Find Boys' Life magazines from the 50s and 60s and use them as table favors. Find someone who has a uniform collection and have him bring it.

Neal, In that case place me in the category of "Doubting Thomas." I know an Eagle whose membership has been revoked. Even so, his I Love Me wall has his medal and certificate.