John-in-KC

Flags CAN be hung vertically... as SSScout stated...

Here's the definition from BSA Requirements #33215: Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. That, to me, means what is happening with Billy the 167 hours of each week he is away from his leaders. Does he model the Scout Law at his school? The Scout Oath at his church? Does he look for opportunities to serve others? It's not about wearing uniforms, and being quiet when the sign goes up, and participating in 63.65% of all meetings. It's about becoming an honorable young man, whose word is his bond. It really can be that simple. FOR US SCOUTERS: It's about being honorable adults, our word being our bond. My thoughts.

What bachus and Neal said. Sounds like your DE and UC need to pay a friendly business call on the IH and COR of your chartered partner. Then, it sounds like it's time for your unit to start providing som thank you service hours to your chartered partner. If the relationship is the way you described it, then it's because both sides didn't work the relationship... in about 80% of the cases. There are 20%, such as Lisa'bobs CP, where they won't care...

Ed, you and OGE beat me to it! Who wants pie?

B, Wizened, little, gray. Hard to distinguish from a large lintball coming out of a vacuum cleaner bag.

Wood Badge is the Advanced Training of the Boy Scouts of America. Powderhorn is Advanced Training in Program Execution for the Venturing program of BSA. Supplemental Training, such as Leave No Trace, WFA, University of Scouting, Commissioner's College, or whatever is either scheduled by your coucil training committee or by commercial providers. Check with your District and Council Training Committees, and look at nearby Boy Scout Council websites. Wish I could help you more.

Mock boards, retests, at any rank, are wrong. Either you trust your PLs, Instructors, TGs, QM, ASPL and SPL (if you are truly youth led), or them and your ASMs and SM (if you are partly youth led) or your ASMs and SM (if you use the Adult Run Troop Method)... Or you do not trust them at all. Now, if the Committee has a concern that the Scoutmaster's program is not up to snuff, it can schedule non-advancement Boards of Review for assessing retention of a skill by a certain set of Scouts. In that case, the committee is looking at training delivery and reinforcement, and I'd expect feedback (it's gift) be given the Scoutmaster. If, in this assessment, the Board finds a Scout needing training, the SPL should be so notified. Anything else is just plain out in left field showing that adults do not trust their youth to execute the program.

uz... Because statute law is a matter of public record, and folks can/do use the courts as agents of change. Indeed, sometimes they even win.

Gern, The next big hurdle for many of these young men is the college admissions process. Faculty members do not have to bend over backwards in most cases. Case in point: EagleSon went to a university scholarship day. He's not the best there ever was in his field, nor is he the worst. We got there on time, he'd had a good nights sleep, he had a game plan, and he did well. Another young man frankly was far, far better in technical qualifications over EagleSon. Ok, here's the BUT! ... he was slovenly dressed, and he hadn't taken care that he came to the day appearing... shall we say... sanitary. He wasn't on campus some months later. When I asked "where is rrr, he was darn good??" the frank answer was "We did not offer him one thin dime; what's more, we alterted several other schools he was applying to." I'm not advocating Parlour Scouts either, but the whole of the Scout Law applies. Thrifty can be met by buying an experienced uniform. Clean absolutely should be met. Thrifty can also be met by wearing other appropriate clothes (coat and tie being one example).

If the child is documented as "gifted and talented"... If the child is has met the elementary education critera (imo with straight A's, otherwise he's simply being pushed by the winds of helicopters)... If the child is about to, indeed, skip a grade because he is that far ahead of the curve... Then and only then should DL, CM, parents, SM, UC and COR be talking about an early movement up the line. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMO, maybe 50 Scouts a year, Nationwide, will justify accelerated entry. In other words: The odds are pretty heavily weighted for "due course" movement. There is plenty of program to support him through his ordinary movement up the line.

Gern, None. Scout Spirit is how you live the Oath and Law in your daily life. I'd want to hear who and how the young man is away from Troop meetings, Troop campouts, and Patrol meetings/hikes/camps/activities. Now, as to uniform: It's the same as any other part of the BOR. It comes from my belief that the EBOR is the boys' night. The ECOH is celebration for family, friends and mentors. The boy is the center of attention, it's an expression to others. I want to see a Scout approach his EBOR not as a "check-a-block" evening, but as something which matters. His shirt can be patched over for tears and burns ... but I expect it clean. The patches can be frayed ... but I want them all the way on (not pinned, not duct-taped, not badge magiced and falling off). He can choose coat and tie. I want to see the maturity in the young man that says "this matters." Why? Anywhere from days to a couple years in advance, this young man may be talking to an interlocutor to get into the college he wants to go to... or to get the internship he really wants. I want to see some passion, some spark. This is why I advocate the Scout have great sway in where the EBOR be conducted (let it be someplace which touches his heart, not an assembly line classroom in not even his church) and in whosits his EBOR. Are there not people in Billy's life who will challenge him, yet are the people he respects enough to be his role models? Let's give them a chance to challenge and mentor, yet share the good times yet again with a yarn or three. Unfortunately, the National Advancement Committee and I seem to disagree on this last point. Their loss.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I think I would ask the youth in the Crew what they want to wear, to include the level of bling. Venturers are older teens; this is a decision adults can pass off to them.

Please don't feed the troll.

Know your wife. If she's a clinger and rarely lets you out of her sight, any activity that takes you away from her is going to be difficult. If she loves you and supports you, then the right compromises as Beavah described will happen.

First comment: The Eagle App stops once at Council for a pre-certification. The youth member does not get certified to have an EBOR without that. Now, is that just my Council, or is that all Councils? Dunno. Do know it's echelons above my DAC to fix. Second commnet: After the EBOR, the SE has to personally (so I am told) sign the Eagle app before it goes to Irving. There, it gets a brief administrative review before Eagle certificate and credentials are cut. I think all of us have heard at least one story, even in the current short turnaround era, of an Eagle app coming back to Council because somehting is not right. Assessment: Beavah may be a managing partner in his firm (or he may be solo, I dunno). He's past the point where he needs someone to scrutinize his paperwork any longer. Now, if Beavah was a first year wet behind the years just out of law school associate, would you not have someone errorchecking his detail work as well? To me, we've got the next to last lap, the Eagle app process, too hard. It reflects adult life a little too much. This isn't rocket science. ScoutNet has the data. We should be able to have the youth log on, hit a button which says "Generate my partial Eagle application from file data", and then it's a matter of unit refinement. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As to the EBOR, It's not a retest of skills. It should not be something that needs three layers of preparation (and trust me, in August I went through a 3 layer prep for a dog and pony show to corporate management ... what a waster of productive time). That said, it's not right for it to be a Kum-Bye-Yah session either. Scouting is designed to develop the whole man, so the EBOR should check in with the whole man: The matrix for that is the Scout Oath and Law. Probing, open-ended questions have a downside... they take time to answer. They also have an upside: You get at the whole man; you get to see how he ticks. As far as ELSPs go, if I were a CC and the DAC questioned a projects' approval after the fact, I would call the board to executive session, then go out and tell the Scout "you won't be having your EBOR tonight; it's a grown-up thing." My next step would be to call my COR and tell him I needed him at once. My last step would be to tell the DAC ... we can evaluate how he executed the product, but if you aren't willing to underwrite your predecessors' work, there is the door, and you should understand I'll be having a conference call with the DE and the District Chairman tomorrow morning." I'd then want my COR to have my back and say the exact same thing. Scouts execute approved products in good faith that the goal posts won't be moved on them. The District questioning the validity of an approval after the fact is moving the goal posts. OBTW, if I had to adjourn an Eagle Board for grownups not playing nice... the SM enters the room. EagleSon's EBOR lasted a bit over an hour in the talking part ... and there was, by several recounts, much laughter from all members afterward. His board was not a group of lightweights: A member of the Council Exec Board, a District Commissioner, his PD from Scout Camp that summer (also an RT Commissioner), the District NESA rep as District Guest and his CC. The questions weren't easy, but they were all in grasp. Enough said by me.

Edge, Your point of risk is this rather open-ended question: "Please, tell us about your faith and how you work your faith out in your daily life?" I've used that question on more than one Eagle BOR. If someone from the unit doesn't ask it, the District Guest, I assure you, will ... or something very similar. It's not designed to be a trap; it's designed to be an open-ended question that allows the Scout to discuss faith whilst thinking on his feet. It gets at the 12th point of the Scout Law, which is a proactive point (as are all the points). If you show that you are at ease and comfortable with the question, however it comes, people will move on quickly. If you are obviously uncomfortable, or your answer sounds like fresh squeezed cow poop, your BOR will drill deeper. What you choose to say is entirely up to you.

I tend to agree with B. This stuff is pole vaulting over mouse turds. Now, if the kids were to sing the Internationale, or the Panzerlied, or chant B-B, then I might be a bit more vocal.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

So you're a Quartermaster? However much material you have scrounged for the Patrol boxes and Troop leaders chest, it won't be enough by 3. Get more stuff. No, that's not enough... more stuff again.

What gwd said. Don't discourage them!!! This is an example of bad gatekeeping!!

ADD VALUE TO THE SLIDES. DO NOT READ THE D####D SLIDES. I KNOW HOW TO READ, THANK YOU. DO NOT READ THE SLIDES. Can you tell this is a pet rock? I'm deadly serious though. If you are a small group facilitator, aka a Troop Guide, add value to the material you use for the Patrol classes. If you just read the bullet point to me, I'm GOING TO TURN MY EARS OFF AND GATHER WOOL. You'll be worse than useless. On a different note: Take a hard look at your briefings. When I took the course, the background was mean to be oak leaves. It was effectively camourflage. Your students will not have the youngest eyes in the world anymore. Think, really, really hard, about taking your powerpoints and converting them to Black lettering on an off-white to light blue background. Whether you use hardcopy or a laptop screen, you'll make the product easie to read for your learners. We've done this thread before, but I can't quite find it in the archives.

Certainly for WB21C... that would be about 2001??? A friend took the older version of the course about 1999. He did it in the weekend mode.

Someplace else in the inter-verse I encountered a sterling fellow. He claimed the Democrats were being held back from passing health care because they were afraid of their right wing money donors. That was the sanest of his claims.

According to various news reports, General McChrystal delivered his force requirements to Admiral Mullen at Ramstein AB today. Now, it's up to the civilians, but the military leadership is watching what happens here rather closely.

Gotta agree. 3 Dens.

In my Council, the typical commitment for a member of the Key 3 is 3 years. Of course, actual membership is renewed annually.